[Retired] The LCD Thread

[zod96]

I have a chance to pick up a 2 week old Dell U2410 in perfect condition for $300 plus a cpu that I have. Is the Dell U2410 really worth it, should I go for it?

 

[Winterpool]

Depends on the meaning of 'perfect condition'. I suspect most punters on this forum would agree at this point that the Dell U2410 is the best-value IPS display if one can deal with the wide gamut (and in 'sRGB mode', there is the dithering issue). As you know, the big problem with IPS displays is LG.Display's QA -- we're getting unacceptable (at least for display snobs) uniformity on many panels. If you can get a display that already has been examined and determined to be fine, well -- isn't that what we all want? Rather than getting and returning display after display (I'm fairly sure some punters on the Hard|Forum threads have returned 3 or more HP LP2475s or Dell U2410s).

To put it another way, I'd personally be glad to pay over $300 to get a Dell U2410 without significant quality issues.

 

[Rusvul]

<deleted>

 

[Rusvul]

Depends on the meaning of 'perfect condition'. I suspect most punters on this forum would agree at this point that the Dell U2410 is the best-value IPS display if one can deal with the wide gamut (and in 'sRGB mode', there is the dithering issue). As you know, the big problem with IPS displays is LG.Display's QA -- we're getting unacceptable (at least for display snobs) uniformity on many panels. If you can get a display that already has been examined and determined to be fine, well -- isn't that what we all want? Rather than getting and returning display after display (I'm fairly sure some punters on the Hard|Forum threads have returned 3 or more HP LP2475s or Dell U2410s).

To put it another way, I'd personally be glad to pay over $300 to get a Dell U2410 without significant quality issues.

^^^
This. Also you might want to investigate transfer of ownership via the Dell online form to make sure you take on the existing warranty in Dell's records. The dang U2410 tint issue is the biggest drawback at the moment, so if you have a way to "win the lottery" via someone else having already done it for you, I'd say go for it.

 

[zod96]

He's dropped the price to $250 plus my cpu

 

[btaylor2]

I'm looking for a 23 or 24 inch monitor, preferably something with a non-tn panel, in the sub-$550 range if possible. I'm also under the restriction of having to order directly through either the manufacturer or a major retail outlet (in other words, no used and few refurbished panels available). At present, my best options appear to be the NEC EA231WMi or the Dell U2410. At this point, however, I'm open to suggestions. How will the two of those compare? Is the U2410 worth the extra cash, given the tinting issues? Are there any alternatives in that price range?

 

[genegold]

How is the 2410 "top of the line?"

I've followed the Dell situation very closely. I was pumped to buy it but after reading about all the issues and the way Dell is handling it, I'm holding off for now. Here's how I understand it: If someone buys a new 2410, and complains about the tint issue, Dell will only exchange it for a refurbished monitor, rather than giving you another brand new 2410. Which is frustrating to me, because if you're victim of a shitty panel, then it's clearly "defective" to me. But not to Dell. It's not cause enough to warrant an exchange for a new monitor. At that point you're thrown in to the panel lottery where you have to try refurb after refurb to get a good unit.

It's important to note that "refurbished" in this type of case simply refers to a monitor that's been opened and returned for any reason. It can be anywhere from someone who got a perferctly good monitor but decided on a different one, to one that really did have problems and so the innards have been corrected or replaced. While I also tend to prefer my luck with new, there's something to be said for a monitor that the company's techs in the U.S. have taken a second look at.

 

[Rusvul]

How is the 2410 "top of the line?"

I've followed the Dell situation very closely. I was pumped to buy it but after reading about all the issues and the way Dell is handling it, I'm holding off for now. Here's how I understand it: If someone buys a new 2410, and complains about the tint issue, Dell will only exchange it for a refurbished monitor, rather than giving you another brand new 2410. Which is frustrating to me, because if you're victim of a shitty panel, then it's clearly "defective" to me. But not to Dell. It's not cause enough to warrant an exchange for a new monitor. At that point you're thrown in to the panel lottery where you have to try refurb after refurb to get a good unit.

As a reminder, Dell is no longer "officially" exchanging monitors for tint issues. As per the post here: http://en.community.dell.com/forums/t/19302919.aspx

Problem: Complaints of Pink or Green Tint on U2410 display
Note: All received captures were tested and are within manufacturer specifications for Color Gradation. Because this is a normal panel characteristic and not a hardware failure, exchanges will no longer be offered for this complaint since a dispatch of another display cannot be guaranteed to resolve the complaint.

Maybe they'll exchange if you complain enough but according to this, tint is part of the product as delivered. Refund, Return, or don't buy at all are your choices.

 

[Winterpool]

Mmm, so neither Dell nor NEC will exchange displays owing to tinting... Not terribly convenient, though I'd been expecting something like this, especially since the fault essentially lies with LG.Display. I do hope the display manufacturers encourage LG.Display to do something about their QC.

More and more, I ask myself, should I look instead to PVA panels? But I'm not sure if the situation is any better on that side, really. And the good ones are all wide gamut too, no?

Zod, I'd really advise you to buy your friend's U2410 now, especially if his panel's colour and brightness uniformity are acceptable...

 

[Winterpool]

This may help to sway some minds: Buy.com has the NEC EA231WMi (23-inch 1920x1080 IPS) for $289.

There's a button to 'checkout with Amazon' that also reads '10% CashBack with PayPhrase'. Mmm. That would make it, what, $260? Not too much more than the Dell 2209WA, which is only 1680x1050.

 

[alkemyst]

Mmm, so neither Dell nor NEC will exchange displays owing to tinting... Not terribly convenient, though I'd been expecting something like this, especially since the fault essentially lies with LG.Display. I do hope the display manufacturers encourage LG.Display to do something about their QC.

More and more, I ask myself, should I look instead to PVA panels? But I'm not sure if the situation is any better on that side, really. And the good ones are all wide gamut too, no?

Zod, I'd really advise you to buy your friend's U2410 now, especially if his panel's colour and brightness uniformity are acceptable...

NEC's 90 series warranty is pretty comprehensive for color and image issues...much different than Dells.

 

[xtknight]

Sorry guys, I'm still here and I'm reading your posts, but I've been busy with finals. I'll get back to you when I can, probably when I'm done with all these damn finals. This is merely a hobby...

 

[ryedizzel]

Take your time dude, this thread already has a wealth of great info. School comes first...

 

[Frozen316]

Can someone help me decide on a monitor? I'm looking at getting LG L227WTG-PF sounds good but I read that it has a uneven back light (I'm not sure if it matters that much to not buy it). ASUS VW224U.

I'm not really willing to spend more than about $160, I do have a good deal on the LG L227WTG-PF.

It needs to be 22 inch or smaller because I don't think a 24 inch monitor will fit on my desk.

I want a low-very low lag and no or very little ghosting monitor that's about as good as a crt is.

1. I don't know how good the VW224U is with ghosting or input lag (no benchmarks).
2. I don't know if the uneven back light on the L227WTG-PF would be bad.
I'm not sure if the
3. I don't know if some other monitor with 20-30 ms input lag would be good enough to play the game I want to be able to play - Pangya (The power bar on the two lcds - one of which is Acer's x223w - I've tried have been ghosting or something).

Any recommendations or help?
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2034224

 

[StickFigs]

Does anyone know if there are new/improved models of these 3 monitors since the last time this thread was updated?:

- Samsung SyncMaster 2233RZ
- Dell UltraSharp 2209WA
- LG Flatron L227WTG-PF

 

[sindows]

Does anyone know if there are new/improved models of these 3 monitors since the last time this thread was updated?:

- Samsung SyncMaster 2233RZ
- Dell UltraSharp 2209WA
- LG Flatron L227WTG-PF

The 2209wa has a newer revision. It went from A00 to A01 and I think they switched assembly plants so newer screens aren't exactly the same as older ones

 

[StickFigs]

What's the best non-glossy, 22" gaming monitor available with both VGA and DVI inputs?

Initially I wanted a Samsung SyncMaster 2233RZ but I need a monitor with both VGA and DVI inputs. So I looked at the LG Flatron L227WT but I can't find a place to buy it within the United States and I was thinking about a Dell UltraSharp 2209WA but the input lag is very high compared to a TN panel.

 

[alkemyst]

What's the best non-glossy, 22" gaming monitor available with both VGA and DVI inputs?

Initially I wanted a Samsung SyncMaster 2233RZ but I need a monitor with both VGA and DVI inputs. So I looked at the LG Flatron L227WT but I can't find a place to buy it within the United States and I was thinking about a Dell UltraSharp 2209WA but the input lag is very high compared to a TN panel.

What are your needs for the extra inputs?

All gaming?

 

[sindows]

I new help in buying an new "used" lcd. I currently have a 2209wa and the "sparkyness/dirtiness" of the coating is immensely distracting. My budget is $300 and I it has to be a *va/IPS panel.

The thing about IPS panels is that I've heard that all of them have a coating that makes it "sparkly/dirty". Is this true? I've played with the Apple 30" and although it is also a IPS panel, I find it very usable and don't notice the "dirty" effect. Is this because some panels are just coated less severely?

Another question regarding the Apple 30", at my Apple store, its located next to the new 27" iMacs and IMO the 30" looks like a much better lcd. The iMac is much brighter but for some reason I feel the colors don't look as natural as they do on the 30". The colors seem to be "amped up" as if every pixel has extra power going to it. I don't think it has to do with the glossy/mirror aspect. The colors on my 2209wa also look very "amped" up even when I turn the brightness/contrast down. Its very tiring on my eyes yet the 30" ACD feels very natural and soothing somehow. Any idea what I'm talking about or am I overly sensitive to very bright lcds?

 

[alkemyst]

I new help in buying an new "used" lcd. I currently have a 2209wa and the "sparkyness/dirtiness" of the coating is immensely distracting. My budget is $300 and I it has to be a *va/IPS panel.

budget is tight.

The thing about IPS panels is that I've heard that all of them have a coating that makes it "sparkly/dirty". Is this true? I've played with the Apple 30" and although it is also a IPS panel, I find it very usable and don't notice the "dirty" effect. Is this because some panels are just coated less severely?

sounds like your play is in an apple store. That dirty effect is the new Dell mantra.

Another question regarding the Apple 30", at my Apple store, its located next to the new 27" iMacs and IMO the 30" looks like a much better lcd. The iMac is much brighter but for some reason I feel the colors don't look as natural as they do on the 30". The colors seem to be "amped up" as if every pixel has extra power going to it. I don't think it has to do with the glossy/mirror aspect. The colors on my 2209wa also look very "amped" up even when I turn the brightness/contrast down. Its very tiring on my eyes yet the 30" ACD feels very natural and soothing somehow. Any idea what I'm talking about or am I overly sensitive to very bright lcds?

sounds like you want the apple flagship even though it's "amped up".

If you are serious about a recommendation pick a real one.

 

[StickFigs]

What are your needs for the extra inputs?

All gaming?

I need at least one DVI and one VGA input. The monitor will be used for my PC and my XBox 360. So yeah, both for gaming.

 

[mmnno]

I was thinking about a Dell UltraSharp 2209WA but the input lag is very high compared to a TN panel.

What makes you say that?

The 2209WA has some flaws, input lag is definitely not one of them.

 

[StickFigs]

What makes you say that?

The 2209WA has some flaws, input lag is definitely not one of them.

Owners were reporting noticeable ghosting in that same thread there.

And what are these other flaws you speak of?

 

[mmnno]

Owners were reporting noticeable ghosting in that same thread there.

And what are these other flaws you speak of?

Ghosting is not input lag.

The other flaws include aggressive antiglare, white glow, lack of 16:9 scaling (with a 360 you can output 1680x1050 so that's only an issue with a PS3), and on top of that stuff the questionable QC.

According to ToastyX, the 2209WA ghosts less than my primary monitor. Granted, I am allergic to FPS, but the only ghosting I can see on this thing is blurry text when I'm dragging windows around. The 2209WA is slower than a CRT and slower than the 2233rz. It's slower than the fastest 60Hz TN, but not by all that much. But if you need CRT-like performance then you need a TN or a CRT, and you can eliminate the 2209WA from your search.

Actually, there is also Viewsonic's most recent 120Hz LCD : The VX2268WM. It has a VGA input. That should work perfectly for you, although its predecessor the VX2265 had some weird issues IIRC so you might want to read some reviews.

 

[StickFigs]

Ok, I think I want to get the LG Flatron L227WTG-PF, but I don't want a glossy screen.

Is there any place that sells the Non-US L227WT and will ship to the US?

Also, is the L227WTP the same as the L227WT? (aka non-glossy?)