[Retired] The LCD Thread

[ZealPath]

Well I finally decided to get a Dell U2410, I actually like it quite a bit, so much more than any other LCD I have tried. It's still an adjustment, and I have to play the mental mind-game of "you know it's better than that stupid 17" CRT, just get used to it already!", and so far, so good. I knew I would have to take the brightness way down, and even at 0% colors are still vibrant so I believe the "holy crap it's like reading off of the sun" issue is resolved at last.

Text has always been my concern with LCDs, between ClearType and Firefox's NoSquint plugin set to autozoom all text (not images) to 120%, I seem to be good to go. Gaming is simply amazing, I can see things that I swear weren't there before, definitely no complaints on that front, no input lag problems in FPS (TF2) either.

Maybe the only thing I can complain about is Windows UI text is a little small, not necessarily game-breaking since I'm not reading novels there anyway, but what annoys me is that it seems to be impossible to change font sizes manually in the Aero UI for Windows 7. They are pushing upping the DPI instead which I am not a huge fan of since that seems like an overkill solution which has the side effect of zooming (some?) images/icons as well instead of just increasing text size.

If anyone knows of a workaround to change text size in 7 without changing DPI that would be cool, but I think at this point I've finally made the transition, thanks xtknight for the suggestions.

 

[xoham]

I'm considering NEC EA231WMi. The only real drawback is there is no 1:1 pixel mapping.

Is that tolerable? Is there anyway to get the graphics card to do it if the monitor won't?

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Someone suggested I post this question here, regarding how irritated I am with monitors lately. Looking for a decent one. Original post follows:

Tired of the shit blacks, vertical bands, piss poor colors, etc.

I've had tons of LCDs and now getting tired of poor color reproduction and lousy brightness. At work I admin several dozen and it's not a big deal for Excel, but getting tired of the one at home.

I'm looking for:

24" to 26" panel
1920x1080 resolution (don't want to go any higher as I'm not looking to upgrade my vid card (GTX 260)).
Must have a VESA mount. I use an articulating arm, none of the newer LED LCDs support this???

Cost is important, but I know a $200 Sunday special isn't going to fit the bill. But don't want to drop $1500 on a CAD monitor either.

Suggestions?

 

[Spivonious]

I see some good info about LCDs and the technology behind them, but I'm hoping someone can help me out here.

I have had an NEC Multisync FE791SB CRT monitor (16" visible) for almost 10 years and have been extremely happy with it. Lately it's taking a little longer to come on, and I must admit that I'd like to regain my desk real estate. It's also not as bright as it once was.

I use LCDs at work (two Dell P170S monitors) and have never been happy with the viewing angle or the color reproduction. No matter how much tweaking I do, I can never seem to get my whites really white and solid colors are never solid colors across the entire screen.

My question is are there any LCD monitors that approach the high level set by my CRT in sharpness, color reproduction, and viewing angle?

 

[alkemyst]

Viewing angle is really overrated on a desktop monitor. See the listing for photo work for color and sharpness.

 

[gifpaste]

I'm looking for:

24" to 26" panel
1920x1080 resolution (don't want to go any higher as I'm not looking to upgrade my vid card (GTX 260)).

Are you sure GTX 260 doesnt do 1920x1200? That is the card I have and I'm also looking for a 24"

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_gtx_260_us.html
Max Digital Resolution: 2560x1600

 

[alkemyst]

max res <> playable resolutions...however, it should handle 1920x1080 or 1200 about the same.

 

[gifpaste]

hmm, by playable do you mean lower FPS?

I normally play games in windowed mode, besides the windowed mode penalty would it be playable if desktop is 1920x1200 while windowed game is less res?

 

[alkemyst]

I think you just need to read up some more on it...most aren't looking at buying mid-tier and above cards to play at low res.

 

[yacoub]

The topic post(s) needs a new section for Office Work on a Budget recommendations.

Really, when most of the recommended displays for general Office Work are $1,000, and none in the top ~20 spots are relevant for a home user with the same desired usage requirements, that's just silly.
Even $550 for a 24" Dell is overkill.

What are some solid displays to buy for family members who are older and their eyesight isn't amazing, but they want a nice widescreen monitor (21-23") for reading documents, websites, watching Hulu, etc.
Something in the $200-350 range would be appropriate.

Same requirements as Office Work, just added in video/movie watching:

• High contrast at medium brightness
• Good text reproduction
• Matte display coating
• Video/movie watching

1920x1080 would be ideal, but 1680x1050 is fine as well.

 

[alkemyst]

really any of the 200-350 range is about the same.

 

[danielajurcevice]

Hello gentlemen,

As a visual designer (digital and a bit print) I am looking to replace my trusty EIZO crt with a new screen.

Now i know the NEC 2490wuxi was once king....

2 Questions:

1. The WUXI has been replaced with the WUXI2... is that the same high quality or are their known issues or reasons not to buy this 800 EURO screen? And is the WUXI2 also SRGB instead of Wide Gamut?

2. Are there perhaps other, equally suitable contenders to the TFT S-IPS throne that cost less (i remember reading about a HP IPS screen (but wide gamut) and the new Dell (emulates sRGB me think).

Your wisdom would be much appreciated!

Dani

 

[Winterpool]

If you're principally a digital designer whose final products will be seen online, then you'll want an sRGB display. Though, depending on the quantity and nature of your print work, you may prefer a wide-gamut display. Theoretically, in your case, wide-gamut should be all right since most of the software you'll be using should be able to deal with wide-gamut colour accurately. Jah, no clear answer for you there, heh...

The LCD2490WUXi was indeed considered the supreme prosumer sRGB IPS display, owing to its choice H-IPS panel, 12-bit internal LUT, A-TW polariser, ease of calibration, advanced menus, high-end NEC quality control, etc etc. The '2' revision stripped the A-TW polariser, meaning the off-angle glow that IPS displays are prone to is more conspicuous. Without the polariser, some would argue there is no 'perfect' display atop the IPS heap any more.

If you're in the market for a high-end display, you may want to wait for NEC to release their new 'PA' series, which replaces the '90WUXi' models as their top displays. I've a link to an NEC market segmentation chart on the previous page of this thread.

The affordable mid-range IPS monitors from Dell and HP seem to be very good monitors for the price and can be calibrated to be very accurate colourwise. Punters have mainly had two issues with these monitors: the wide gamut (if you're not a print designer, then wide gamut can prove a headache rather than a feature) and LG.Display quality control (esp panel tinting / uniformity). I've speculated that with the massive increase in IPS panel production (not just budget Dell, HP IPS but also the huge growth in Apple sales), LG.Display is probably selling quite a few questionable panels. Presumably, vendors who pay LG.Display top dollar (NEC's high end) get the pick of the production run. Further down the $ scale, Dell and HP have to make do with the bulk of the production run, including some panels at the crappy end of the distribution. There are punters on Hard|Forum who've returned 3 or 4 Dell / HP displays in their quest to get an acceptable panel.

Depending on your retail selections, you may find the price difference between NEC and Dell / HP small enough that it's not worth dealing with the higher chance of flawed panels. Dell has a full range of sizes and resolutions in IPS now: U2711 (27-inch, 2560x1440); U2410 (24-inch, 1920x1200); 2209WA (22-inch, 1680x1050). HP is currently transitioning from the wide-gamut LP2475w to the new ZR24w, which I believe will be sRGB.

If you're coming from Eizo, you'll probably want the NEC PA241W.

 

[KamiXkaze]

NEC PA241W when will it be available in the US.

kXk

 

[Winterpool]

I don't believe there's a release date for North America yet? The Japanese date appears to be 22 February... And there are apparently a couple of reviews in Japanese already, so perhaps that date was fulfilled.

I'd expect a gap of 3+ months between Japan and N America. Summer sounds a safe bet...

 

[alkemyst]

I don't think the PA241W will be a giant killer like the WUXi, I can guarantee it will probably be more monitor than many really need though.

 

[danielajurcevice]

If you're principally a digital designer whose final products will be seen online, then you'll want an sRGB display. Though, depending on the quantity and nature of your print work, you may prefer a wide-gamut display. Theoretically, in your case, wide-gamut should be all right since most of the software you'll be using should be able to deal with wide-gamut colour accurately. Jah, no clear answer for you there, heh...

The LCD2490WUXi was indeed considered the supreme prosumer sRGB IPS display, owing to its choice H-IPS panel, 12-bit internal LUT, A-TW polariser, ease of calibration, advanced menus, high-end NEC quality control, etc etc. The '2' revision stripped the A-TW polariser, meaning the off-angle glow that IPS displays are prone to is more conspicuous. Without the polariser, some would argue there is no 'perfect' display atop the IPS heap any more.

If you're in the market for a high-end display, you may want to wait for NEC to release their new 'PA' series, which replaces the '90WUXi' models as their top displays. I've a link to an NEC market segmentation chart on the previous page of this thread.

The affordable mid-range IPS monitors from Dell and HP seem to be very good monitors for the price and can be calibrated to be very accurate colourwise. Punters have mainly had two issues with these monitors: the wide gamut (if you're not a print designer, then wide gamut can prove a headache rather than a feature) and LG.Display quality control (esp panel tinting / uniformity). I've speculated that with the massive increase in IPS panel production (not just budget Dell, HP IPS but also the huge growth in Apple sales), LG.Display is probably selling quite a few questionable panels. Presumably, vendors who pay LG.Display top dollar (NEC's high end) get the pick of the production run. Further down the $ scale, Dell and HP have to make do with the bulk of the production run, including some panels at the crappy end of the distribution. There are punters on Hard|Forum who've returned 3 or 4 Dell / HP displays in their quest to get an acceptable panel.

Depending on your retail selections, you may find the price difference between NEC and Dell / HP small enough that it's not worth dealing with the higher chance of flawed panels. Dell has a full range of sizes and resolutions in IPS now: U2711 (27-inch, 2560x1440); U2410 (24-inch, 1920x1200); 2209WA (22-inch, 1680x1050). HP is currently transitioning from the wide-gamut LP2475w to the new ZR24w, which I believe will be sRGB.

If you're coming from Eizo, you'll probably want the NEC PA241W.

Thanks for your extensive reply!

It's rather amazing, but from the many user reviews, it seems that NEC managed to 'screw up' with the Wuxi2 the almost unparalleled reputation of the old WUXI. (for example: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1447336).

Here in Europe you would need to fork out 800 euro for a WUXI2. For that amount of money I expect a near flawless display like the WUXI, not the WUXI2.

1. Without the polariser, am i right to say that the quality of the WUXI2 is much closer to that of the midrange IPS offerings by Dell U2410 or HP 2475???
Has someone here experience of how those two cheaper screens weight up against the NEC?

2. I understood the Dell is Wide Gamut, but has a sRGB setting that should take care of the over saturation that was haunting the 2408/2409 screens?

 

[xtknight]

Thanks for your extensive reply!

It's rather amazing, but from the many user reviews, it seems that NEC managed to 'screw up' with the Wuxi2 the almost unparalleled reputation of the old WUXI. (for example: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1447336).

Here in Europe you would need to fork out 800 euro for a WUXI2. For that amount of money I expect a near flawless display like the WUXI, not the WUXI2.

1. Without the polariser, am i right to say that the quality of the WUXI2 is much closer to that of the midrange IPS offerings by Dell U2410 or HP 2475???
Has someone here experience of how those two cheaper screens weight up against the NEC?

Honestly the lack of the A-TW polarizer isn't going to change things that much besides the viewing angle and darkness of black. The IPS panel is still excellent at distinguishing tones and staying true to the gamma curve. The A-TW polarizer is a mere extra. While people may frown on the WUXI2 vs. the WUXI, truth is, it's still a good monitor with a high quality IPS panel. The brightness was slightly reduced and the contrast slightly increased in the WUXi2 model I believe.

The LP2475w or U2410 are better deals, if those are cheaper where you live. And they will do great for photo editing or print work purposes. My photo editing list doesn't have them yet because until recently I was unaware that software emulation was actually excellent for sRGB.

2. I understood the Dell is Wide Gamut, but has a sRGB setting that should take care of the over saturation that was haunting the 2408/2409 screens?

Don't use sRGB emulation on monitors. Use native and use sRGB emulation in software; it is far superior, because software emulation uses 3D transformation while monitors do not, yet.

 

[danielajurcevice]

Thanks XTKnight!

1a. What do you mean with software emulation of sRGB instead of SRGB emulation on monitors?

Is that particular software or is that something in existing programs like Photoshop, Windows, Mozilla and so on?

1b. Opinions about the accuracy of sRGB software emulation seem to vary: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1478976


2. Any experience with "Adobe RGB preset was marred by a very strange dithering pattern over mid-tone grey shades " as reported here: http://www.trustedreviews.com/monitors/review/2010/02/02/Dell-UltraSharp-U2410-24in-Monitor/p4

 

[NiL8r87]

Does anyone have the new Acer 120hz monitor (GD235HZ)?

I know it says it supports NVidia 3D Vision, but was wondering if 3d would work with any ATI card/glasses that could come out in the future. My immediate assumption is that a monitor wouldn't be built to support only 1 brand of 3D, but maybe I'm wrong.

The reason I ask is that I'm planning to build a new machine soon and would rather not be limited to 1 brand of video card.

 

[digitaldurandal]

AFAIK ATi has not described the strategy they're going to use for 3d. Nvidia is using two 60hz signals that are offset from each other. However there are advantages to a 120hz screen even without 3d. You will not have to worry about ghosting with the new monitor, it has the lowest measured response time of any monitor I have looked at and has almost zero input lag as well. If it came in true 24 inch 1920x1200 id purchase one instantly.

Nvidia at this time is the only company to support 120hz at that type of resolution. The 58xx currently will not.

 

[NiL8r87]

AFAIK ATi has not described the strategy they're going to use for 3d. Nvidia is using two 60hz signals that are offset from each other. However there are advantages to a 120hz screen even without 3d. You will not have to worry about ghosting with the new monitor, it has the lowest measured response time of any monitor I have looked at and has almost zero input lag as well. If it came in true 24 inch 1920x1200 id purchase one instantly.

Nvidia at this time is the only company to support 120hz at that type of resolution. The 58xx currently will not.

I see. Well I guess I'm going with Fermi then

Thanks.

 

[subtle]

NEC PA241W when will it be available in the US.

kXk

It's currently available for order at Dell and Provantage but it looks like there is a 3-5 week wait period for shipment.

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/p...9&amp;sku=A3478464

http://www.provantage.com/nec-displa...k~7NECE00U.htm

 

[nycxandy]

It's currently available for order at Dell and Provantage but it looks like there is a 3-5 week wait period for shipment.

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/p...9&amp;sku=A3478464

http://www.provantage.com/nec-displa...k~7NECE00U.htm

First post since joining over a year ago?

 

[jpeake]

free shipping if you order using the toll free number