Retro gaming

[Dacalo]

I, to this day, regret selling my NES and SNES with buttload of games with superscope and what not around 6 years ago. DAMMIT.

 

[rayfieldclement]

If yer into retro gaming you might want to buy new or used consoles off the net. I don't like emulation generally.

 

[BD2003]

I've still got my Genesis and N64 but I haven't broken those out for awhile. Emulators are better with modern TVs since they come with up scaling and antialiasing filters.

It's still a pretty popular scene. We've got a store in town that only sells retro junk. Games, albums, consoles, comics, swag. Went when they first opened but they've attracted a nice following since. Which is great because others who attempt it usually fail. I need to go again.

Unfortunately, with publishers on their anti-used game bender and everything moving to online distribution, retro gaming may die with the next generation. In that people 20 years from now will be unable to play games from today. Especially more obscure titles.

Quite the opposite I'd say. Each generation has made the retro games increasingly more accessible - something like virtual console never existed before. This of course applies only to a fraction of older games, but they're generally the ones still worth playing. Emulation isn't going anywhere for the more obscure stuff though.

 

[exdeath]

Teasers.

 

[weez82]

Im a little jealous exdeath. You have a very nice collection. I wish I had all my game boxes for my games. Never thought I would be a collector when I was growing up lol

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Nice setup! Should have pretty good audio as well (Klipsch Promedia 2.1s right?)

 

[exdeath]

Yeah Promedia 2.1.

Might change soon, I'm debating doing the SPDIF mod to my SNES and tapping a 32khz PCM signal directly from the SPC700 DSP output.

Only issue is it's not typical 32khz it's some odd 32,040 hrz exactly and I need to find a receiver that can work with it. Probably a Sony since it's a Sony designed sound processor.

 

[JD50]

I got a RCA to BNC adapter while I wait for my SCART cables to come in. Problem is, I'm only getting a black screen when I try and plug it in. Are there some settings or anything I need to mess around with on my Sony PVM? I get sound, but no video.

 

[exdeath]

Make sure it's set to RGB and EXT SYNC. If EXT SYNC isn't enabled it looks for sync on green. Though if it's a sync problem you'll just get a rolling image, not a black screen.

Also make sure your SCART cable is wired for RGB and that you are breaking out the appropriate pins with RGB+sync to your BNC/RCA cable. SCART cables carry multiple formats and can be composite only, RGB only, both, etc. If you are getting absolutely NOTHING then you aren't getting any RGB signal. Just because it's a SCART cable does not automatically imply it's a RGB cable. Only way to know is open up the SCART connector housing and look for 3 wires on the RGB pins; on a proper cable they are easy to identify by presense of 3 x 220uf capacitors.

None of the other wires matter. SCART cable carries various voltage sources for consumer televisions to auto switch to widescreen, RGB, composite, stereo audio, etc, but since a PVM is being deliberately set to RGB, all you need are 4 wires from the SCART for RGB+S for the video.

On top of that there is Japanese SCART vs European SCART, and the multiple multi-out designs of various region SNES units and Nintendo consoles in general. eg: A PAL Gamecube RGB cable unmodified will display RGB on a NTSC SNES, but not a NTSC Gamecube, etc.

A North American SNES requires 220uf capacitors to filter out DC bias on the RGB lines. The revised model SNES 2 also doesn't pull the RGB lines from the PPU to the AV multiout so you need to solder in 3 wires from the PPU to the AV multiout connector.

Also make sure none of the cables/adapters/switches in between are trying to work with component video. The PVM can accept component video, but the SNES only outputs RGB.

Even with no sync, if you are set up correctly you should just be able to hook up just ONE color channel and see a rolling image on the monitor. You can't really miswire it; if G -> R etc you'll just get wrong colors in an otherwise perfect image.

edit: Saw you are still waiting for a SCART cable, I assume you are trying to test it out with composite with a standard AV cable. Just need to hook it up to the composite input and set the video source to composite. Make sure "358 Filter" is enabled in the menus (built in comb filter).

 

[JD50]

edit: Saw you are still waiting for a SCART cable, I assume you are trying to test it out with composite with a standard AV cable. Just need to hook it up to the composite input and set the video source to composite. Make sure "358 Filter" is enabled in the menus (built in comb filter).

Yea, I've got the red RCA cable plugged into the "video in" using the bnc adapter under "line A". That should work right? The only light I've got on the front is the "a/rgb" button. The screen is black with "NO SYNC" bouncing around in the lower left corner of the screen.

I just got this monitor, this is the first time I'm testing it. Any ideas?

 

[exdeath]

Uh red is right audio. Yellow is composite video with a standard red/white/yellow AV cable.

 

[JD50]

lol, I guess that would be the problem... it works now, thanks.

Too bad my Nintendo 64 doesn't seem to be working at all. I tried it with Pilotwings 64 and Wave Race 64, no signal, no sound, nothing. I bought it from the only retro game store in the state 4 or 5 months ago, I guess I should've tested it sooner. I've been putting off getting an SNES off ebay (that store was out, and has been out since then), although that's the system I want the most. Mainly for RPGs.

 

[Axon]

Teasers.

Fantastic collection.

 

[exdeath]

lol, I guess that would be the problem... it works now, thanks.

Too bad my Nintendo 64 doesn't seem to be working at all. I tried it with Pilotwings 64 and Wave Race 64, no signal, no sound, nothing. I bought it from the only retro game store in the state 4 or 5 months ago, I guess I should've tested it sooner. I've been putting off getting an SNES off ebay (that store was out, and has been out since then), although that's the system I want the most. Mainly for RPGs.

Sounds like your 64 is kaput but I thought I would mention N64 does not have RGB capability without modding. AFAIK it's just wiring 3 wires from the PPU to the AV multiout.

Another note, many consoles and SCART cables use composite video for the sync signal, and the Sony PVM series monitors will happily accept a yellow composite RCA on the EXT SYNC (has a built in sync stripper circuit). Most OEM SCART cables from Sony, Nintendo, etc are actually putting out composite video on the SCART SYNC pin.

Sync is a binary event that either happens or doesnt, so any quality of the signal doesn't matter so much. It's the RGB lines that carry what you see.

 

[Pia]

This is a lot of what I mean about janky mechanics - Im not an arcade, why am I being limited by the number of "lives" I have? Why do I have to constantly repeat levels or start back at the beginning? Why is the game SO hard that it's as if the developers didn't actually intend on you finishing it?

Some of those games were probably bad. But actual arcade games tend to be really hard, yet are usually reasonable if you respect them instead of expecting them to give you a free win. I started playing bullet hell shoot'em ups a while back. Every time when I get a little further, it's exciting because I'm getting stuff thrown at me I haven't seen before, and failure is instant death - if I fail, I don't get to see any more and do not get any more score on that run, so I better be able to deal with whatever the unknown is. Beating a new section feels great. Beating a new boss is awesome. Reaching the final boss with two lives remaining, successfully navigating unfamiliar attack patterns, tactically bombing through both lives to just barely beat the game feels like being a superhero. If I were to insert some virtual credits and continue, or use savestates, the fun would disappear.

Take a look at a game like super meat boy - basic mechanics, and super difficult. But you have no limit on the number of times you can retry and the levels are short. Despite being more demanding than many retro games, it's not frustrating at all because those artificial barriers than pad length are entirely removed.

To me it feels meaningless. There's no level structure, rhythm and story to explore and discover, no excitement from getting to a new or hard spot with your previous play on the line, no freedom, no side goals, no state (even lives/health/etc.) which makes the situation different. SMB is just an assortment of tiny ugly consequence-free Guitar Hero pass/fail minigames you must grind until you've beat all of them.

It's a huge contrast to loading up an oldschool platformer like Rocket Knight Adventures in a Genesis emulator. The levels are actual rich levels instead of screens. You can "game over" in the last levels, and the next run starts from the beginning - which is fine because it was fun to play in the first place, constantly challenges you a bit even at the lower levels, and you have a degree of freedom in how to navigate the levels and respond to challenges. You see challenges that were hard become manageable, and then you start experimenting on how to get through them as fast as possible, on the way to pushing further into the last levels.

Then compare it to a game like castlevania 1 - god forbid you make a mistake or you haven't memorized the level and you get thrown so far back. It was aggravating back then, and even more so now when I've become accustomed to not having to deal with that bullshit.

I've found that it wasn't until the modern age of emulators with savestates that I've been able to complete and enjoy the entirety of many of my favorite games from my childhood. This of course doesn't apply to JRPGs, but it's one of the ways many classic games dont quite hold up and remain better memories than games. My time is too precious nowadays as an adult.

As long as the game is fun, is it bad that it takes time to beat? When I make a run in a game, I don't need to see progress to have fun. Maybe I got further than before, maybe not, but I gave it all I had that day and I'm stronger for it. If I don't have much time to play, I'll play the same game the same way, just less often; if it was worth playing in the first place, it's worth playing when there's less overall time to play.

 

[BD2003]

Here's the rub though....at first the challenge is part of the fun, yet when you're forced to replay levels, first they cease to be novel and interesting to explore, then they cease to be challenging, and eventually cease to be fun. Then at best you're bored, at worst you're frustrated. Neither of those are desirable qualities in any game, at any time.

There is a heightened sense of accomplishment when the task is more difficult, but the exploration and experience of the story and visual art....thats the part of gaming that has always appealed to me. The difficulty in retro games was necessary in almost every game at the time, in order to have a reasonable playtime. But outside of a specific subgenre of games that are specifically about being as hard and frustrating as possible (demon souls), repetitiveness and excessive difficulty are impediments to storytelling and the experience in modern games. It's just oil and water.

Nothing has really been lost though, most games have a super difficult setting, if that's what you really want.

 

[Pia]

Here's the rub though....at first the challenge is part of the fun, yet when you're forced to replay levels, first they cease to be novel and interesting to explore, then they cease to be challenging, and eventually cease to be fun. Then at best you're bored, at worst you're frustrated. Neither of those are desirable qualities in any game, at any time.

It's possible to avoid boredom though. Good scoring systems go a long way towards that - after you have learned to survive a certain part of the game, you have another goal you can push towards while playing through those parts. And then you can revert back to survival mode when you get to sections that are hard for you. Another thing used by a small minority of games is to offer a very high level of challenge from the beginning instead of ramping up, so the first parts never become easy enough to bore.

Nothing has really been lost though, most games have a super difficult setting, if that's what you really want.

I find "super difficult" settings nearly always badly balanced, unelegant and unenjoyable, much like tacked-on permadeath modes. If a designer wants to make various difficulty modes actually good, they should design based on the hardest mode, then adjust to create the easier modes. The other way mostly doesn't work for obvious reasons. I'm fine with some games being easy and some being difficult; actually facing five different difficulty modes after clicking on "new game" is a negative in my book if four of them are badly balanced and there is no indication of which one is recommended for best experience.

 

[BD2003]

It's possible to avoid boredom though. Good scoring systems go a long way towards that - after you have learned to survive a certain part of the game, you have another goal you can push towards while playing through those parts. And then you can revert back to survival mode when you get to sections that are hard for you. Another thing used by a small minority of games is to offer a very high level of challenge from the beginning instead of ramping up, so the first parts never become easy enough to bore.

Or they can make games where you don't have to replay parts of the game you've mastered at all, allowing you to focus solely on the novel experience. I'd love it if they remade some older games with modern sensibilities - checkpointing, etc....that way you can have the nostalgia without the aggravation.

I find "super difficult" settings nearly always badly balanced, unelegant and unenjoyable, much like tacked-on permadeath modes. If a designer wants to make various difficulty modes actually good, they should design based on the hardest mode, then adjust to create the easier modes. The other way mostly doesn't work for obvious reasons. I'm fine with some games being easy and some being difficult; actually facing five different difficulty modes after clicking on "new game" is a negative in my book if four of them are badly balanced and there is no indication of which one is recommended for best experience.

I don't really disagree with you there, but it's either that, or you just don't get the level of difficulty you're seeking in a modern game. The art form has transcended being merely a test of skill - at first we had purely score based single screen games, then scrolling, arduous journeys...now there are stories and cinematics, and that just doesn't mix well with repetition. That's why final fantasy II/IV was such a breakthrough game - it was the first RPG I played where I didnt have to pointlessly grind to proceed with the story - as long as you just fought everything that came up, you'd be able to handle anything. This was a HUGE departure from dragon warrior and phantasy star, and really launched the genre.

 

[batmang]

Is there any newly made console that can play N64 cartridges, besides the actual N64? I know there are knock off consoles that can play NES and SNES games, anything like that for N64?

 

[exdeath]

Is there any newly made console that can play N64 cartridges, besides the actual N64? I know there are knock off consoles that can play NES and SNES games, anything like that for N64?

No. N64 is considerably more advanced, plus it's more recent and would face more aggressive copyright/patent scrutiny than 20 yr old hardware which has had it's IP protection long expired by now.

Besides when a real N64 is ilke $40... why would you want a knock off?

 

[JD50]

How do the combo SNES/NES boxes work? Like the twin FC or whatever it's called. Do they work with SCART?

 

[jmolayal]

I've got an Atari 2600 in the garage that I want to hook up to my plasma in the man cave (bought the connector) but I can't seem to find any cartridges around the house! Grrrr.

I'm the opposite, got plenty of cartridges to play with but my 2600 doesn't work

Till the one day when the lady met this fellow.. And they knew that it was much more than a hunch...

 

[JD50]

Dangit, this is going to become addictive. I just got my snes + super mario world, now I want to get the case and manual.

To whoever mentioned shadowrun, holy crap that was one of my favorite games as a kid. I'll definitely need to get that.

 

[exdeath]

Super Mario World ironically is one of the higher priced games to get complete with box and manual. You would think it's probably the highest volume game, so why is the box set so scarce?

Well 99% of people who have it got it as a bare pack in game included with the system. Ah makes sense now. The original black box stand alone retail release is actually pretty scarce and in the $100+ range. The player's choice/gold ribbon re-release box is a cheaper alternative.

Sega Master System, Genesis, Sega CD, Turbo Grafx, Neo Geo, DS... you don't have to deal with "CIB/Complete in Box" BS because they all came in plastic hard cases.

Nintendo had to be a bunch of cheap asses so NES, SNES, N64, Gameboy/GameboyAdvance, etc all cardboard boxes that most people throw away which makes NES/SNES collecting an expensive nightmare.

The end result is that a Sega Master System game complete with case, well protected and preserved book, etc average about $5. A $5 game for NES/SNES can become $100+ just because of the box.

Do yourself a favor and vow NOT to go for complete box sets for those systems and it will be a much more enjoyable experience...

 

[exdeath]

All 1985 black box 5 screw hang tab complete in box games