RG3

[IndyColtsFan]

keep beating that dead horse ICF!!!!

I don't believe Dan Snyder will ever win a Super Bowl. He has the ego of Jerry Jones but nowhere near the football IQ. And we see how low Jerry Jones' football IQ is now.

 

[AMDZen]

Manning v. Manning in the superbowl next year. Bitches

I had a vision.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

RG3 could get a perfect 10 anyday of the week. He's sticking it out with the girl that was there before he became a millionaire.

I respect a guy like that. Look at Mark Cuban. His wife looks very average especially when you think of billionaires wives. He is sticking with the woman that's been there all along.

 

[AMDZen]

I don't believe Dan Snyder will ever win a Super Bowl. He has the ego of Jerry Jones but nowhere near the football IQ. And we see how low Jerry Jones' football IQ is now.

Granted but Shanahan makes all the GM decisions over there now

 

[AMDZen]

RG3 could get a perfect 10 anyday of the week. He's sticking it out with the girl that was there before he became a millionaire.

I respect a guy like that. Look at Mark Cuban. His wife looks very average especially when you think of billionaires wives. He is sticking with the woman that's been there all along.

True enough but Luck's girl has been there all along as well. She's just hot, slender and flexible and undoubtedly great in bed. Its not like there is any difference in that scenario.

Also, Luck has proposed and she is his finace now, so its a done deal. We'll see if RG3 marries her

 

[MiniDoom]

Granted but Shanahan makes all the GM decisions over there now

um... the redskins general manger Bruce Allen makes the gm decisions now, supposedly. Danny boy just writes the checks now. Shanahan coaches the players.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

RG3 is coming into the NFC East at the right time. I think the Eagles are heading towards a dark period and Vick will be gone and the Cowboys and Romo probably aren't far behind. I imagine Eli will beat his ass for a few years and then the Redskins can win a few NFC East crowns.

 

[AMDZen]

um... the redskins general manger Bruce Allen makes the gm decisions now, supposedly. Danny boy just writes the checks now. Shanahan coaches the players.

Shanahan and Allen are splitting general manager duties, similar to how Bill Belichick and Scott Pioli worked in New England.

Which means Shanahan says what he wants, Allen says what he wants, and Shanahan gets the final decision. Trust me. Thats how it goes.

Mike Shanahan was hired as head coach and executive vice president of football operations. He has the final say on ALL football matters. He would have never taken the job in DC if it was any different.

 

[DrPizza]

Mcnabbs first two years as a starter he rushed 86 and 82 times. So, he was nowhere near RG3.

Its the threat of the run and the time that RG3 buys by running around in the backfield that is contributing to his passing stats. Any reciever can get free given enough time. The true measure of passer is how well he passes dropping back and completing the pass in the time before the pocket collapses. RG3 hasn't proven he can do that yet.

As said, he can stay in the pocket - but without the level of talent at receiver that the other top QBs had, it just doesn't always happen that there's an open receiver - and in that case, he's seemed very alert to pressure coming from the side, or behind, and gets the hell out of dodge - scrambling out & completing a pass, or seeing the opportunity for a lot of yards running.

Just did pass attempts and rushing for first 7 STARTS:
Montana - 119/191 passing, 25 rushes, 7.64 passes per rush attempt.
Manning - 131/240 passing, 6 rushes, 40 passes per rush attempt.
Vick - 84/153 passing, 39 rushes, 3.92 passes per rush attempt.
All stats via - http://www.pro-football-reference.com

Let's look at those stats a little more:
Montana: 62.3% completion rate, quarterback rating 81.1
Manning: 54.6% completion rate, quarterback rating 71.2
Vick: 54.9% completion rate, quarterback rating 62.7
RG3: 70.4% completion rate, quarterback rating 101.8

(I had to use the entire first season for Montana, Vick, and Manning; didn't know how to get it down to 7 games.)
RG3 also has better stats for all three (compared to their first season) for sacks and interceptions.

That 70.4% completion rate - instead of throwing the ball away when everyone's covered, he gains yards by running.

 

[RPD]

Dr. Pizza I just put together the first 7 weeks since people were asking for comparison vs. the actual NFL data we have for RGIII.

 

[Phoenix86]

Perhaps you have forgotten what Vick's rookie season looked like? Here, let me remind you.

Passing:
231/421 54.9%, 2,936 yrds, 16 TD, 8 Int, 44 20+ yd passes, 81.6 QBR

Rushing
113 attempts, 777 yards, 7.5 ypa, 8 TDs, 5 Fumbles

Let's not write him off yet, like we did with the last 2 heir apparent(s) (Cam, Vince)

I'd say Griffin is on par with Vick's rookie campaign.

See this is exactly the type of comparison I'm talking about by labeling him a running QB. How the hell do you compare 54.9% completion and 81.6 rating vs. 70.4% and 101.8 and call it on par?

 

[eits]

As said, he can stay in the pocket - but without the level of talent at receiver that the other top QBs had, it just doesn't always happen that there's an open receiver - and in that case, he's seemed very alert to pressure coming from the side, or behind, and gets the hell out of dodge - scrambling out & completing a pass, or seeing the opportunity for a lot of yards running.



Let's look at those stats a little more:
Montana: 62.3% completion rate, quarterback rating 81.1
Manning: 54.6% completion rate, quarterback rating 71.2
Vick: 54.9% completion rate, quarterback rating 62.7
RG3: 70.4% completion rate, quarterback rating 101.8

(I had to use the entire first season for Montana, Vick, and Manning; didn't know how to get it down to 7 games.)
RG3 also has better stats for all three (compared to their first season) for sacks and interceptions.

That 70.4% completion rate - instead of throwing the ball away when everyone's covered, he gains yards by running.

100% agreement on this. way to go, dr. pizza.

rg3 is in a category all his own. cannot be compared to vick or newton, etc... only contrasted.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

See this is exactly the type of comparison I'm talking about by labeling him a running QB. How the hell do you compare 54.9% completion and 81.6 rating vs. 70.4% and 101.8 and call it on par?

A running QB, by definition, runs more than the average QB. As I showed earlier, based on currently available stats, RG3 rushes a higher percentage of the time than Vick and Cunningham. If you call them running QBs, RG3 must be one too. Yeah, RG3 is obviously a better passer than Vick, but he still runs more too. No one ever said RG3 and Vick were "on par;" what was said was that their styles are similar and the stats I posted earlier show that Vick and Griffin run at roughly the same rate.

 

[RPD]

100% agreement on this. way to go, dr. pizza.

rg3 is in a category all his own. cannot be compared to vick or newton, etc... only contrasted.

But this is what everyone didn't like being compared, a full season vs. 7 weeks.

 

[eits]

A running QB, by definition, runs more than the average QB. As I showed earlier, based on currently available stats, RG3 rushes a higher percentage of the time than Vick and Cunningham. If you call them running QBs, RG3 must be one too. Yeah, RG3 is obviously a better passer than Vick, but he still runs more too. No one ever said RG3 and Vick were "on par;" what was said was that their styles are similar and the stats I posted earlier show that Vick and Griffin run at roughly the same rate.

i feel like no one read my post...

so, i'll post it again...

"cam newton AND mike vick are more like a running back that can throw... rg3 is more like a quarterback that can run. there's a difference. that's why rg3 will get better over time. that's why vick and cam newton suck... they are more like running backs who can throw. they have distance and zip, but no accuracy or finesse. defenses figure that out and quickly. once you stop them from running so they can stay in the pocket in order to throw, they turn the ball over. vick's offensive line sucks ass right now... reid needs to let him loose and let him run and not throw, but i digress.

however, when you have a quarterback who has accuracy and intelligence and can read defenses who can run/scramble, like aaron rodgers or brett favre or even steve young, that's WAY more valuable and less of a risk down the road.

the only thing rg3 needs to learn right now is how to not get hurt and to accept when to end the fight for yardage so he can survive and be well enough to gain more yardage on the next down in a different way. he will keep defenses guessing. he's got accuracy, he's got a cannon, he's got humility and poise, he's got intelligence, and he's faster than any defensive player in the league.

with a strong offensive line, he is unstoppable. he only had 3 total turnovers (two interceptions and one lost fumble out of five total) with 11 touchdowns. he is the most accurate quarterback in the league.

would we be able to apply the same stats and attributes to cam newton? absolutely not. cam newton threw interceptions like rice at a wedding. he lacks poise, accuracy, and intelligence, but he can run. even with a strong offensive line, cam newton will still throw picks. if steve smith played for the redskins, he would probably be a top 5 receiver... however, he's playing with cam newton, so he's only been able to collect 398 total yards and no touchdowns. that's such a waste of steve smith's talent."

 

[Farang]

See this is exactly the type of comparison I'm talking about by labeling him a running QB. How the hell do you compare 54.9% completion and 81.6 rating vs. 70.4% and 101.8 and call it on par?

Oh, the "let's extrapolate" off of a handful of games game.

He's a running QB--doesn't mean he can't throw, or have a good rating, but his game has a pitfall which is he is going to get hurt too often, forcing the team to rely on a backup. He had a 2-to-1 pass-to-run ratio in college and 3-to-1 in the pros.

Unless he stops to be a running QB, that pitfall will remain an issue.

edit: Not saying he can't be a pocket passer, but he hasn't been. I think some people think calling him a running QB is a knock

 

[eits]

RG3 could get a perfect 10 anyday of the week. He's sticking it out with the girl that was there before he became a millionaire.

I respect a guy like that. Look at Mark Cuban. His wife looks very average especially when you think of billionaires wives. He is sticking with the woman that's been there all along.

exactly

 

[Phoenix86]

A running QB, by definition, runs more than the average QB. As I showed earlier, based on currently available stats, RG3 rushes a higher percentage of the time than Vick and Cunningham. If you call them running QBs, RG3 must be one too. Yeah, RG3 is obviously a better passer than Vick, but he still runs more too. No one ever said RG3 and Vick were "on par;" what was said was that their styles are similar and the stats I posted earlier show that Vick and Griffin run at roughly the same rate.

I understand wanting to label him a running QB because he does run a lot. That label however comes with the assumption he's 1 dimensional like Vick or other running QBs (bad passers).

Also...

I'd say Griffin is on par with Vick's rookie campaign.

So yes, they are. Which is my point by saying that label isn't really accurate. Has there ever been an accurate QB who runs like him? I can't think of any so maybe a label isn't applicable here at all.

Unless he stops to be a running QB, that pitfall will remain an issue.

edit: Not saying he can't be a pocket passer, but he hasn't been. I think some people think calling him a running QB is a knock

It's not a pitfall to get 20 yards and slide. It's only a pitfall if you lower your shoulder to get a few extra yards and take a big hit, which he does at times. He'll never be a pocket QB, or rather he never should try. To ignore that type of mobility would be silly. Also, comparing 7 games vs 16 isn't a huge stretch. Comparing it vs multiple seasons or entire careers is.

 

[eits]

I'd say Griffin is on par with Vick's rookie campaign.

you're high.

just look at who luck has to throw to on his squad... reggie wayne... donnie avery... those are the only two people who he's got, really.

take a look at who rg3 has... sometimes, he's got santana moss... that's about it. garcon has been out since game 1, pretty much. he had to make something out of no namers. luck hasn't done that. plus, luck hasn't been able to place the ball exactly where his receivers can catch them, unlike rg3. dude has a laser sight on his arm.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

i feel like no one read my post...

so, i'll post it again...

Your post didn't say anything I didn't already know. We know Griffin is a better passer than Vick; he is definitely more accurate than Vick though Vick probably has the stronger arm. No one questions that he is also smarter than Vick.

My point is that Griffin is still running 25% of his plays, which is even more than Vick did. That is a recipe for disaster. Your whole notion that Griffin is only running when he has to (I believe you said it earlier, I apologize if I confused you with someone else) is false, due to the run % I pointed out and also by the fact that I did watch the second half of the Giants/Skins and I saw plenty of what I call "kiddy" offensive schemes being employed by the Skins. When I say "kiddy," I mean gimmicky formations similar to wildcat/wishbone formations which are basically option types of offenses.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

you're high.

just look at who luck has to throw to on his squad... reggie wayne... donnie avery... those are the only two people who he's got, really.

take a look at who rg3 has... sometimes, he's got santana moss... that's about it. garcon has been out since game 1, pretty much. he had to make something out of no namers. luck hasn't done that. plus, luck hasn't been able to place the ball exactly where his receivers can catch them, unlike rg3. dude has a laser sight on his arm.

You obviously didn't watch the Green Bay game or the Minnesota game. Luck led 2 clutch fourth quarter drives for wins and the Green Bay drive was epic.

Oh, and Avery? Between him and TY Hilton, I think they're holding a contest to see who can drop more passes.

I also like how you conveniently leave out Alfred Morris. Nice try, I'll give you an A for effort but F for execution.

 

[DrPizza]

But this is what everyone didn't like being compared, a full season vs. 7 weeks.

You'll note that the completion percentage WAS based on those first 7 weeks - the stats you provided. (I.e., I just divided & changed it to a percentage.)

I'll continue - I figured out how you did 7 games (manually.)
First 7 games

RG3: 1601 yards passing, 7 passing TDs. Overall quarterback rating: 101.8. He's currently ranked #3 among quarterbacks by rating. He's 18th in the NFL for rushing yardage. 18th! Newton is 31st, Vick is 42nd; they're the only QBs in the top 50) 6 rushing touchdowns, 468 total yards rushing. Total yards passing is 1601. That's over 2000 yards on offense. 3 interceptions, 1 fumble

Manning: 6 rushing attempts, 33 yards, 0 rushing TDs. Total passing yards = 1595. I'm not sure how to figure out his quarterback rating for the first 7 games, but his ratings per game were: 58.6, 51,1, 39.3, 63.2, 66.8, 62.6, and 117.5. 9 passing TDs. 14 interceptions

Someone else can get out a calculator to add these yards up for Montana or Vick.

To recap: Sure, we can call him a running quarterback. Yet, compared to Manning's first 7 games, RG3 has STILL managed to pass for more yards. He's run for more yards than any other quarterback in the NFL this year. He's had more rushing touchdowns than any other quarterback in the NFL this year. You say it as if it's a negative thing. He's 5th in the NFL (of all players) for rushing touchdowns. For what it's worth, Morris, the 'Skins RB, is tied for 6th in the NFL this year for running TDs, so it's not as if he's really taking them away from his teammates. He's 10th in the NFL for total yards this year; 1.3 yards per game behind Luck. (9 total yards behind Luck)

 

[Brigandier]

Plus he likes goofy socks.

 

[eits]

You'll note that the completion percentage WAS based on those first 7 weeks - the stats you provided. (I.e., I just divided & changed it to a percentage.)

I'll continue - I figured out how you did 7 games (manually.)
First 7 games

RG3: 1601 yards passing, 7 passing TDs. Overall quarterback rating: 101.8. He's currently ranked #3 among quarterbacks by rating. He's 18th in the NFL for rushing yardage. 18th! Newton is 31st, Vick is 42nd; they're the only QBs in the top 50) 6 rushing touchdowns, 468 total yards rushing. Total yards passing is 1601. That's over 2000 yards on offense. 3 interceptions, 1 fumble

Manning: 6 rushing attempts, 33 yards, 0 rushing TDs. Total passing yards = 1595. I'm not sure how to figure out his quarterback rating for the first 7 games, but his ratings per game were: 58.6, 51,1, 39.3, 63.2, 66.8, 62.6, and 117.5. 9 passing TDs. 14 interceptions

Someone else can get out a calculator to add these yards up for Montana or Vick.

To recap: Sure, we can call him a running quarterback. Yet, compared to Manning's first 7 games, RG3 has STILL managed to pass for more yards. He's run for more yards than any other quarterback in the NFL this year. He's had more rushing touchdowns than any other quarterback in the NFL this year. You say it as if it's a negative thing. He's 5th in the NFL (of all players) for rushing touchdowns. For what it's worth, Morris, the 'Skins RB, is tied for 6th in the NFL this year for running TDs, so it's not as if he's really taking them away from his teammates. He's 10th in the NFL for total yards this year; 1.3 yards per game behind Luck. (9 total yards behind Luck)

:thumbsup:

see? billy idol gets it. i don't know why she doesn't get it...

 

[purbeast0]

Thats fine, I'll still take Luck as my QB, I'll take my bets on Luck to be in superbowls and even in Canton one day, and I'll take his GF too.

That was my argument. Luck > RG3 IMO, even when it comes to their choice in women.

Granted, she looks a lot better in that white dress than the other 100 pictures I've seen, but I'll stack that one up to money making her look good and the camera angle. Its not her body so much as her face. I also kind of rescinded the overweight statement. She is, but not too much.

this explains A LOT of your posts in this thread. thanks for clarifying that.