Rich Chinese fleeing China....

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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,812
10,346
136
I'm an American living in the U.S. with a Chinese girlfriend who lives in China (in Chengdu, Sichuan province). I've visited her in China and gotten a pretty good sense of Chinese attitudes, and I can tell you that your stereotypes about what it's like to live in China are nonsense.

Most Chinese are very satisfied. As a practical matter, very few Chinese feel "oppressed" or lacking in freedom. I'd read about the great firewall of China, and it's true that when you try to access Google, you get the Chinese version, which (I'm sure) blocks a lot of content. But I was easily able to access the websites of the Washington Post, the Los Angeles Times, and the New York Times, as well as Wikipedia. I was able to access my American email account. I was able to access and participate in Anandtech forums (until my Chinese IP address got banned by Anandtech - I'm not sure why). All the news and information I sought was available to me. So any Chinese interested in getting the unfiltered news - or who wants to send and receive emails free of censoring - can easily do so.

Of course, if in China you want to be an un-censored journalist or seek to change social/political conditions in China or wish to join a controversial religious or political group, you're eventually going to get into trouble. It's undeniable that America has more freedom of expression and association than China. But for the vast majority of Chinese, they do what they want, when they want to, without any fear that "Big Brother" is watching them.

On a per-capita basis, China is much, much poorer than the U.S. The standard of living is lower. But people growing up in that sort of environment don't experience a sense of deprivation, since those around them are in the same situation. Thus, I didn't run into any Chinese who were thought their lives were shitty and looked to the U.S. as a sanctuary.

Edit: Oh, and that statement in the article that a rich Chinese like Mr. Su cannot have a second child because that runs afoul of the "one child" law is nonsense. It's is widely known that anyone who wants to have a second child can pay a bribe to the authorities. At Chendu and Beijing airports, I saw many families with two children, and when I asked my girlfriend about it, she explained the realities of the one-child policy.

so what if you just don't want toxic chemicals dumped in the river from which you get water?

what if you want air that isn't constantly smogged?
 

Macamus Prime

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2011
3,108
0
0
Not if they come here legally.

Unlike the illegal immigrants from Mexico, who are by definition criminals. Sympathetic criminals to be sure, but criminals nonetheless.

Criminals hired by American business owners for cheap labor.

Not much cracking down, nor the call to crack down, on crooked business practices of hiring illegals.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,567
6
81
so what if you just don't want toxic chemicals dumped in the river from which you get water?

what if you want air that isn't constantly smogged?

If you're asking me if China has major pollution problems, of course it does. But if you're asking me if normal Chinese Citizens dwell on the pollution issues, my observation is that they don't.

Tap water isn't typically used for drinking. Most middle-class Chinese use a drinking water dispenser. I've read that air pollution in China is really bad, but during my time in Chengdu during the height of summer, I really didn't notice that the air was worse than where I live - in the Washington, D.C. area.

Edit: According to the CIA Worldbook statistics for 2011, life expectancy in China is about 3.7 years less than for the United States. If the air and water in China are poison, I would expect a much larger difference.
 
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randomrogue

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2011
5,462
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No matter how successful the economy of China, it's still an oppressed communist crappy country with no freedom of any kind. The party ultimately decides everything, including how many kids you can have. Anyone with the means would be crazy not to leave that place as soon as possible.

You are so badly misinformed. China is actually really nice. I really enjoyed myself there. Yes anytime you have to deal with the government it blows but isn't that true everywhere? You can have more than one kid. My friends have up to 7. You give up some free government benefits though and simply pay for them yourself.

I really can't stand people who say stupid and ignorant things like you.
 

randomrogue

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2011
5,462
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If you've ever been to China you would know the answer to that. There are like 200 million smoking hot women there.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,567
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why/how do you have a gf in china?
We happened to meet on a web-forum (not this one). What's rather remarkable is that her English is very, very rough and my Chinese is worse. Thank heaven for Google Translate.
are you an international student? study abroad? teach english?
you chinese yourself?
Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Just an American of eastern-European extraction whose ancestors emigrated in the late 19th century.
what's wrong with an american girl, or a chinese-american girl?
Absolutely nothing is wrong with American women, and all my previous girlfriends were American. But when you meet someone and you know it's "right," why should 12,000 miles and a language barrier be allowed to get in the way?
 

randomrogue

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2011
5,462
0
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That's if you know the official well enough and have enough money for a bribe.

That's not the way it works. You get a certain set of government benefits for the first child. Free education is one of them I think. If you have more than one child you are on your own and have to pay for it all yourself. Thus if you are rich you can afford to have more than one child and the rest are stuck at one. With a population as high as China though they can stand to have population controls in place. You haven't seen, nor can you comprehend, crowds like those that exist in China. It blew me away.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,567
6
81
Oh well then everything's cool.

No, not cool. But the super-rich guy in the article stated that one of the reasons he was leaving was that he wanted to have a second child and the one-child policy prevented him from doing that. For a super-rich person, that's bogus.
 

sunzt

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 2003
3,076
3
81
You haven't seen, nor can you comprehend, crowds like those that exist in China. It blew me away.

Yes, I have seen and yes, I can comprehend. Where did you grow up if that blew you away??? I think Tokyo has much more density.
 

randomrogue

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2011
5,462
0
0
Yes, I have seen and yes, I can comprehend. Where did you grow up if that blew you away??? I think Tokyo has much more density.

I have spent way more time in China than Japan. I also have been in China, and different parts, during holidays when everything is just unmovable. I was in Shang Hai for the World Fair and Guangzou for the Asian games and it was just disturbing. One day at the fair had over a million people there. I gave up after a few hours (since it was really hot, the lines were 8 hours long, and getting water and using the bathroom was difficult) and just went home which was a project in itself.

I can't even give an example that quantifies it in American terms.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
You are so badly misinformed. China is actually really nice.

Sure, if you don't value freedom. It is a communist dictatorship, so there is no freedom. You are not free to express yourself, you are not free to practice a religion of your choice. Without basic freedoms, it will always remain a crappy country, no matter how well the economy does and no matter how "nice" it seems.

You can have more than one kid. My friends have up to 7. You give up some free government benefits though and simply pay for them yourself.
My understanding is that legally you are allowed only 1, but you can skirt the law by bribing government officials to look the other way. Either way, any country where the state decides how many children you have is not free.

I really can't stand people who say stupid and ignorant things like you.
LOL. Commie apologist. How many people leave from the US and / or other civilized countries in western europe to go live in crappy China? Now compare that number with the number of those who'd want to leave china and move to a civilized country. Read the article in the OP: anyone who has money wants to leave China asap. China is a lot like Dubai. Wealth has helped them to create the facade of civilization, but underneath it all it's still a third world dictatorship.
 

mindwreck

Golden Member
May 25, 2003
1,585
1
81
agree with random. I went to china for a few weeks for no special event or reason. Just being a tourist and going to ANY tourist location is just INSANE. I have never been out of the country and to experience this was mind blowing. Makes Los angeles look like a city in a boonies.

The picture in that link of the subway is exactly how it is from during work hours on weekdays. I was in Beijing during rush hour. the trains come like every 30secs? and i thought oh ill just let die down for a bit. I waited HALF AN HOUR and the trains were still absolutely packed to the point where peoples faces were squeezed against the door. only way to get on the train is shove people with no mercy.

I can see why anyone with money would leave china. Even a city as beijing with highly praised forbidden city and Olympic buildings is a SLUM. you just can't escape the fact that there are just too many people. People spit everywhere, trash everything, and generally don't care about the living conditions. I am chinese, proud to be one, but no way in hell will i live there.
 

randomrogue

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2011
5,462
0
0
I have Chinese/American friends that have moved back to China. Not the entire family, but some of them. That's who I visit when I go. The food is great, the history is rich, culture is amazing, jobs are decent, transportation is efficient, etc. I could live there if it wasn't for the language. I don't think I can learn Chinese. I struggle to learn a handful of words when I'm there. It's just so confusing. Writing it is out of the question.

I agree with you that they don't have all the freedoms that we have here but that are mostly unapparent. I'm not religious so I could care less about religion to be honest.

My gripe in china is the limitation on freedom of speech. First time I went there I was so frustrated with their great firewall of China. The Chinese can get around it by purchasing a VPN or something but for me it wasn't worth it. When I was there last time they gave the Nobel prize, iirc, to a Chinese dissident and I couldn't access CNN for like a week. I also am intensely bothered by the fact that everything there is a copy. A stolen copy of something. Besides that though I have a great and amazing experience.

The day will come when China opens up and it will be interesting to see how that works out.
 
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