Richland & Kabini rumours

[Idontcare]

AMD has developed embedded processors for more than 10 years now.

AMD GEODE
AMD Turion embedded
AMD Athlon embedded
AMD Opteron embedded
etc.

http://www.amd.com/us/products/embedded/processors/Pages/embedded-processors.aspx

I thought the GEODE came from Cyrix (National Semi). I understand AMD bought and sold them, but the design capability was not an internal one (which is why AMD took so fricken long to get their first fusion chip out the door).

 

[Abwx]

Seems that a X86 onslaught is to be performed on the mobile
devices market , just in time for Temash.

In late February, Microsoft offered PC makers the deal of Windows 8 plus Office for $30 for touch-screen devices under 10.8 inches, according to one person familiar with the situation. This compares with around $120 previously. Touch-screen devices above 10.8 inches can still get the discounted Windows 8 price, but Office isn't included, this person said.

http://techreport.com/news/24459/wsj-microsoft-cuts-win8-oem-pricing-for-tablets

 

[ShintaiDK]

Seems that a X86 onslaught is to be performed on the mobile
devices market , just in time for Temash.



http://techreport.com/news/24459/wsj-microsoft-cuts-win8-oem-pricing-for-tablets

The real reason might be here:
http://www.extremetech.com/computin...-windows-8-adoption-is-almost-at-a-standstill

 

[frozentundra123456]

I'm not surprised by those statistics, people make absolutely piss poor financial decisions each and every day of their lives. $5 cups of coffee at starbucks is proof of that.

It takes a real lack of financial planning by a number of otherwise indebted citizens to create a service economy the size of which McDonalds and Starbucks profit from.

The reason the inequality exists is because a fool and his money are soon to part, and when they do part ways those dollars are going to naturally aggregate in the pockets of those who are bit wiser with their financial choices.

Take all the money from the top 20% and give it all to the bottom 20% and what will happen? In about 1-2 yrs the picture will look exactly like it does now because the money will just slosh right back into the hands of those who aren't foolish about it in the first place.

People don't like the government's overspending but the reality is we as a people are well represented by our government, our elected officials make no poorer decisions with the government budget than we citizens do with our own personal budgets.

Why we expect elected officials to be super-humans at accounting when we aren't able to pay our own mortgages is silly, but we'll buy cars (on credit), HDTVs (on credit), and smartphones (2yr service agreement, essentially a creative loan scheme) because we feel we can't live without them.

Off topic, but I have to respond to this. While I agree with you about spending too much (I could easily retire now if I hadnt refinanced my house a couple of times in the boom days), I would argue that government officials should be held to a higher standard than the average citizen.

 

[frozentundra123456]

The real reason might be here:
http://www.extremetech.com/computin...-windows-8-adoption-is-almost-at-a-standstill

I agree this could be part of the reason, but whatever the motivation, it is good news. I have pretty much decided that I will not even consider another Android tablet, I am so dissatisfied with the one I have now. I could see living with Android's limitations on a phone, but for anything the size of a tablet, I want windows, or at least the ability to install Linux.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Remember Windows 8 is a goner in August. Already replaced.

Samsung also drops Windows RT.

 

[Idontcare]

Off topic, but I have to respond to this. While I agree with you about spending too much (I could easily retire now if I hadnt refinanced my house a couple of times in the boom days), I would argue that government officials should be held to a higher standard than the average citizen.

No argument from me, hold them to a higher standard. Just don't be perplexed when their actions prove they are cut from the same cloth.

When we find out we have crooks, criminals, pedophiles, murderers in congress we really ought to not be surprised. They are representatives after all, and ironically they truly do represent the interests of pretty much all walks of life from their constituency (as a whole, not at an individual level of course).

But let's be real here, these guys get elected by popular votes and the populous is not exactly brimming with rocket scientists and puritanical monks. The voting public includes those less intellectually endowed as well as those less pure in thought and manner. And the House of Representatives is truly just that.

How could it not be? That is what a democracy gives you, average capability government officials who are elected by an average capability votership. We don't give rocket scientists and puritanical monks "super voting" rights, their vote counts no more than that of the people who can't buy groceries for themselves because they feel having a cellphone plan is a higher priority and the government should just subsidize that decision making process with extra foodstamps.

 

[Abwx]

The real reason might be here:
http://www.extremetech.com/computin...-windows-8-adoption-is-almost-at-a-standstill

Indeed but AMD will benefit from the plateforms
lower manufacturing price due to cheaper OS ,
not from pressures to have them reduce
their chips ASPs.

 

[pablo87]

When you think about it, its probably impossible for us to grasp how difficult an environment it is for management in AMD to take decisions in.

There is the ownerhip structure,- and what are their agenda? What is hidden, what is not? The cultural barriers add to that. The complexity is high where it should be most simple.

Then there is this constant flow to GF, in a company with nearly nonstop tradition for not earning its own money.

But there is obviously a lot working in AMD at the product, and technical innovative level. We are a far cry from the early 90ties. In that sense, as a consumer things have never been better.

(edit: its ironic that AMD didnt really beliewe in bobcat themselves, its still like kaveri is the most interesting to come. I think there is a lot of status to work on the really big CPU, stars, - as i know development engis and technicians, when they see an impossible, extremely complex leading edge - project they just go for it - its the best in the world - no wonder, but its not always where the best business is)

Status is a very big part - the idea behind, and implementation of Bulldozer is bizarre to say the least. You share key parts of the architecture to save die space, and then waste the savings on the rest - and then some. It was an intellectual exercise.

But the WSA is still a big factor here - it become obvious what Hector did was to protect his future job...initially I thought siefert wasn't doing right thing but a finance guy like him would know the WSA's burden better than anyone, and be intimately familiar with the direct link between increasing Bobcat sales and increasing WSA shortfall. So yeah, thankless job.

I don't agree with mrmt on margins - what matters is dollars - what AMD can sell for price wise is relatively inelastic, so total cost (chip, pckg, companion chip, power draw) is what can be controlled.

Good thing that I forgot about Kabini design is more portable than Brazos which probably makes die size bigger but at least can be ported to Gloflo (though the status of their 28nm bulk unknown and likely lower yield - another burden).

 

[mrmt]

I don't agree with mrmt on margins - what matters is dollars - what AMD can sell for price wise is relatively inelastic, so total cost (chip, pckg, companion chip, power draw) is what can be controlled.

I disagree here. At the top of the market bracket Kabini faces Celeron/Pentium, and if AMD charges too much Intel will be more than happy to raise fab utilization in order to supply customers there.

At the bottom, AMD must be cost competitive against ARM solutions. Nobody will go for anemic performance if it costs too much because ARM already anemic performance with better power efficiency and reasonable costs. And I'm not even counting Silvermont in Q4.

The inelastic component of Kabini demand is *very small*:

- Hardware that needs to be x86 compatible but needs more power than Clovertrail+ and less costly than Haswell.

As I said, Kabini faces a much tougher environment than Brazos faced when it arrived. I doubt that AMD can repeat Brazos success with Kabini. AMD management f*ed up big time by canning Brazos shrink, but what can we expect from those guys?

 

[mrmt]

I thought the GEODE came from Cyrix (National Semi). I understand AMD bought and sold them, but the design capability was not an internal one (which is why AMD took so fricken long to get their first fusion chip out the door).

Until 2012 embedded was always an afterthought for AMD, then margins cratered and embedded jumped from nothing to "20% of the revenues by Q413".

 

[MightyMalus]

AMD needs to reach out to casual gamers heavily, marketing wise.

I don't know how much a TV ad costs but 10~20 seconds of a commercial representing 2~3 seconds of games one after the other, action, fast paced, racing, twitch based games and ending it with a 2~3 second black screen and the AMD logo falling and crushing an Intel logo with the line "Powered by AMD" or "Have fun with AMD" or "Feel the power of AMD", I believe would be a hit.

They need to show that they are great affordable entertainment chips.
Which, they are.

AMD APU's are capable, but they don't SHOW it!

 

[frozentundra123456]

AMD needs to reach out to casual gamers heavily, marketing wise.

I don't know how much a TV ad costs but 10~20 seconds of a commercial representing 2~3 seconds of games one after the other, action, fast paced, racing, twitch based games and ending it with a 2~3 second black screen and the AMD logo falling and crushing an Intel logo with the line "Powered by AMD" or "Have fun with AMD" or "Feel the power of AMD", I believe would be a hit.

They need to show that they are great affordable entertainment chips.
Which, they are.

AMD APU's are capable, but they don't SHOW it!

If the rumors of PS4 and xbox next gen graphics are true, though, any APU will be woefully inferior to the consoles in graphics. Maybe they could then show a PS4 crushing the AMD APU.

 

[MightyMalus]

If the rumors of PS4 and xbox next gen graphics are true, though, any APU will be woefully inferior to the consoles in graphics. Maybe they could then show a PS4 crushing the AMD APU.

*sigh*

Yes, because obviously Sony/Microsoft and AMD are competing companies!
Your comment makes much sense...

 

[sequoia464]

I have pretty much decided that I will not even consider another Android tablet, I am so dissatisfied with the one I have now. I could see living with Android's limitations on a phone, but for anything the size of a tablet, I want windows, or at least the ability to install Linux.

I recently returned a windows 8 tablet, not because I didn't like it, but because the one I bought had some issues.

In the few days that I was using it, I decided that anything that I get from now on will also be windows.

Looking for a replacement now, just not certain if I'll get a currently available one or wait for the next gen.

Edit: just noticed - 600 posts in ten years - I should probably contain myself here and let a few others post once in a while.

 

[AtenRa]

I thought the GEODE came from Cyrix (National Semi). I understand AMD bought and sold them, but the design capability was not an internal one (which is why AMD took so fricken long to get their first fusion chip out the door).

You are correct that Cyrix designed GEODE, but AMD produced and sold them since they acquired it in 2003, that was years before AMD bought ATI in 2006.

 

[AtenRa]

Current Intel IvyBridge Celerons/Pentiums are 35W and 55W, they dont directly compete against Kabini 15W SoCs.

Also, Intel's 14nm BroadWell Quad Cores will not launched until Q2 2014 (12 months after Haswell at the earliest) and Celerons/Pentiums will follow in late 2014 early 2015. That is 18-24 months from Kabini launch in Q2 2013. By that time, AMD will be starting to introduce a new low power SoC in 20nm.

22nm ATOMs will come in late(Q4) 2013, if Broadwell will release in Q2 2014, I find it very difficult for Intel to introduce 14nm ATOMs in Q4 2014.
The problem here is (except that 14nm will be even more expensive that 22nm) that the new 14nm OoO ATOMs could easily cannibalize the 22nm Celerons/Pentiums and I dont believe Intel will be ok with that.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Current Intel IvyBridge Celerons/Pentiums are 35W and 55W, they dont directly compete against Kabini 15W SoCs.

They are also 17W and below.

 

[AtenRa]

They are also 17W and below.

Ahh mobile yes, i was talking about desktop(forgot to mention)

 

[ShintaiDK]

Ahh mobile yes, i was talking about desktop(forgot to mention)

I dont think Kabini stands a chance in the desktop at all. Its like betting on Atom. Also its BGA only.

AMD places it to replace Brazos. Not anything higher. Thats Richlands job.

 

[NTMBK]

Current Intel IvyBridge Celerons/Pentiums are 35W and 55W, they dont directly compete against Kabini 15W SoCs.

Also, Intel's 14nm BroadWell Quad Cores will not launched until Q2 2014 (12 months after Haswell at the earliest) and Celerons/Pentiums will follow in late 2014 early 2015. That is 18-24 months from Kabini launch in Q2 2013. By that time, AMD will be starting to introduce a new low power SoC in 20nm.

22nm ATOMs will come in late(Q4) 2013, if Broadwell will release in Q2 2014, I find it very difficult for Intel to introduce 14nm ATOMs in Q4 2014.
The problem here is (except that 14nm will be even more expensive that 22nm) that the new 14nm OoO ATOMs could easily cannibalize the 22nm Celerons/Pentiums and I dont believe Intel will be ok with that.

You don't need to capitalise Atom... just saying

 

[itsmydamnation]

I dont think Kabini stands a chance in the desktop at all. Its like betting on Atom. Also its BGA only.

so explain bobcat then, theres 1 billion first world people, 2-3 billion second world people. There is a huge market that kabini can sell into.

 

[NTMBK]

I dont think Kabini stands a chance in the desktop at all. Its like betting on Atom. Also its BGA only.

AMD places it to replace Brazos. Not anything higher.

There are already plenty of Brazos based desktops out there- your average PC buyer has very low standards. Quick list from PC World.

 

[ShintaiDK]

so explain bobcat then, theres 1 billion first world people, 2-3 billion second world people. There is a huge market that kabini can sell into.

There are already plenty of Brazos based desktops out there- your average PC buyer has very low standards. Quick list from PC World.

And they are in the exact same category as Atom.

A Core based Celeron would run in circles around any.

 

[AtenRa]

I dont think Kabini stands a chance in the desktop at all. Its like betting on Atom. Also its BGA only.

AMD places it to replace Brazos. Not anything higher. Thats Richlands job.

With 25%+ single thread performance plus two more cores plus double the iGPU performance over current Brazos 2.0 it will be heaven for low end desktops. It is Celerons that will have problems competing against it.