Richland & Kabini rumours

[AtenRa]

What about those 13.5W GT2 part on the slide?

What about them ??? Are they at the same price point of Kabini ??? dont think so.

 

[quest55720]

I am not sure if this is off topic or not. But here it goes if both next generation sony and MS consoles are jaguar based APUs how does that affect things? That basically forces game developers to make standard using the GPU to assist the CPU. That and most games will be designed around a specific CPU that is on the PC/tablet market. Does this give AMD a big advantage at all and hurt intel by making its huge CPU performance not matter as much? That and maybe MS will develop a tools for GPGPU for all the APPs the next gen xbox will have. They could release those tools for the PC/tablet market.

 

[ShintaiDK]

According to the slide bellow, 10W TDP Hasswell is only GT3. Nemesis1 by referring to 10W Hasswell was pointing to dual Core GT3. This CPU will be a very expensive ULV and not in the same price point of Kabini.

Any links ?? because the lowest i could find is the Pentium 2117U at 17W(22nm).

http://ark.intel.com/products/71469/Intel-Pentium-2117U-Processor-2M-Cache-1_80-GHz

If Pentium 2117U, a Dual Core Dual Threads 1.8GHz with HD graphics is at 17W, a 10W Hasswell with GT3 will be at 1-1.2GHz. The GT3 will be underutilized most of the time because of the low TDP limit.

As mentioned, you dont need 10W Haswells to beat kabini in power consumption.

And for the IBs.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57...y-bridge-chips-to-enable-new-laptops-tablets/

And all your predictions about Haswell speeds. Not much facts in those is there?

Lets just see on the IB Y series.

Kabini would have been nice...last year. But in 2013 it basicly falls between 2 chairs.

 

[Nemesis 1]

No they aren't. You might be able to find a few cpu-bound titles where intel wins but in most games they get thrashed vs Trinity at the same TDP.

Did you see the diablo III results with the 35W Trinity vs the 55W HD4000?

THRASHED. Even the 17W Trinity is faster than the 55W, and this result will be the same in many other games.



Considering intel will have more power budget and transistors thrown at gpu than ever before, it's not exactly surprising. Not to mention more money thrown at graphics R&D than the rest of the entire industry combined. Give them a huge round of applause for having more money than everybody else due to being there first, and finally getting on graphical parity years later. Great stuff!

Your going to have to better than a cherry pick . I need 17 watt Intel Vs 17watt AMD in the same form factor . I not aware of trinity in these form factors . But If you have a link to such bench marks lets see them , I won't hold my breath

 

[Nemesis 1]

Considering intel will have more power budget and transistors thrown at gpu than ever before, it's not exactly surprising. Not to mention more money thrown at graphics R&D than the rest of the entire industry combined. Give them a huge round of applause for having more money than everybody else due to being there first, and finally getting on graphical parity years later. Great stuff!

I not sure how your getting away with this but just stop . AMD spent over 5 billion on graphics design and lost all their fabs in doing so . Grow up!

 

[mrmt]

Considering intel will have more power budget and transistors thrown at gpu than ever before, it's not exactly surprising. Not to mention more money thrown at graphics R&D than the rest of the entire industry combined. Give them a huge round of applause for having more money than everybody else due to being there first, and finally getting on graphical parity years later. Great stuff!

Life isn't fair, live with it.

Intel's desperation to get IVB and Haswell below 10W is simply because Atom sucks and nobody wants it in tablets. Kabini and Temash will be so much better because they have been aimed properly at this segment while intel attempts to blow up a phone chip and scale down a server chip to fit.

Look at the trends forming. Intel isn't really desperate to bring Haswell to sub 10W, it is a cold, calculated movement that is being made for four generations now, and will continue after Haswell. ARM A7 won't have to deal with Silvermont only, they will clash with Core. It was this same efficiency push that wiped out AMD market share on the server market, and allows Core to sit on 17W low power servers to 150W dual core workstations.

As for Kabini... I see Kabini a reasonable, balanced, incremental improvement over Brazos, not the Intel killer you dream it to be. Clocks won't go too far beyond 2Ghz, IPC will go up some 10% and some much needed instructions. That's not an Intel killer. It might not be even a Trinity killer (albeit it will kill Trinity on cost alone). You have to look just at the number of units that each Jaguar core brings and look at what Core and Bulldozer bring to see that it won't be no king of the hill on performance.

AMD is too mum on both chips, and OEMs don't seem to be very interested. That alone point out to a incremental improvement, not a revolution.

 

[Hitman928]

Considering intel will have more power budget and transistors thrown at gpu than ever before, it's not exactly surprising. Not to mention more money thrown at graphics R&D than the rest of the entire industry combined. Give them a huge round of applause for having more money than everybody else due to being there first, and finally getting on graphical parity years later. Great stuff!

I not sure how your getting away with this but just stop . AMD spent over 5 billion on graphics design and lost all their fabs in doing so . Grow up!

I've seen a lot of things in my life, but I've never seen someone hold an argument with themselves on an internet forum before. First time for everything I guess

 

[Nemesis 1]

I've seen a lot of things in my life, but I've never seen someone hold an argument with themselves on an internet forum before. First time for everything I guess

LOL That turned out well . What do you suppose happened there , Do you really think a quoted myself . Eyefinity wrote this Considering intel will have more power budget and transistors thrown at gpu than ever before, it's not exactly surprising. Not to mention more money thrown at graphics R&D than the rest of the entire industry combined. Give them a huge round of applause for having more money than everybody else due to being there first, and finally getting on graphical parity years later. Great stuff!

The rest was me .

 

[SiliconWars]

Your going to have to better than a cherry pick . I need 17 watt Intel Vs 17watt AMD in the same form factor . I not aware of trinity in these form factors . But If you have a link to such bench marks lets see them , I won't hold my breath

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2605...u3c_review_amd_takes_on_intels_ultrabook.html

The Samsung Series 5's graphics performance was somewhat stronger, thanks to the integrated AMD Radeon-class GPU. In our Crysis 2 graphics tests, the Series 5 managed frame rates of between 11.3 (at high quality settings and 1366-by-768-pixel resolution) and 24.5 (at low quality settings and 800-by-600-pixel resolution) frames per second. This frame rate was slightly higher than the average for the last three Ultrabooks we've tested. All of the laptops we're comparing, including the Series 5, rely on integrated HD graphics

Though Intel's Ultrabooks may outperform the AMD Series 5 overall, the Series 5's integrated Radeon HD 7500G graphics are slightly more impressive than Intel's HD 4000 integrated graphics.

17W Trinity vs 17W and higher Intel cpu's. Note that this is a die harvested Trinity as well, unlike the 17W Ivy Bridge's.

 

[Haserath]

Any word on memory speeds and amount supported?

Wondering how a 4C Kabini would do in gaming. Thoughts?

In between Core 2 duo and Core 2 quad at the same clock-speed if the game is well threaded.

Possibly 3870 equivalent GPU but most likely much less.

 

[Nemesis 1]

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2605...u3c_review_amd_takes_on_intels_ultrabook.html

17W Trinity vs 17W and higher Intel cpu's. Note that this is a die harvested Trinity as well, unlike the 17W Ivy Bridge's.

NO NO differant form factor . Trinity is in a larger book . To get to ultra book form factor you need more than intel registered name. The base argument here is form factor trinity can't do tablets . IB can Haswell can . Trinity can't. trinity be hard to put in ultrabook form factor . WERE WAS THE BENCHMARKS for gaming . I have to take the word of a man doing a AMD review . I can't believe you had the balls to post that link

 

[SiliconWars]

NO NO differant form factor . Trinity is in a larger book . To get to ultra book form factor you need more than intel registered name. The base argument here is form factor trinity can't do tablets . IB can Haswell can . Trinity can't. trinity be hard to put in ultrabook form factor .

You do realise Trinity is already in tablets. You realise that Trinity has better idle power draw than Ivy Bridge? Do you realise...anything?

 

[Nemesis 1]

Trinity tablet thats news LINK . LINK to 10 watt IB against trinity tablets I want to see the numbers . Your last link was a fail with no gpu benchmarks . Just a hack doing reviews for a living . Sorry I know about Americans and money .

 

[SiliconWars]

I'd love to see an argument between you and Drashek.

 

[Haserath]

You do realise Trinity is already in tablets. You realise that Trinity has better idle power draw than Ivy Bridge? Do you realise...anything?

I did not realize this. Where are they?:|

 

[SiliconWars]

I don't know if you can buy them but Compal had some on show in the middle of last year. I don't know why anyone would want one regardless, or an Ivy Bridge. Who the hell wants a tablet run by a desktop chip? Makes no sense and a 10W Ivy Bridge is still going to have the problems of being too high on idle draw.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/06/amd-shows-off-its-first-windows-8-concept-tablet-at-computex-201/

 

[Nemesis 1]

I don't know if you can buy them but Compal had some on show in the middle of last year. I don't know why anyone would want one regardless, or an Ivy Bridge. Who the hell wants a tablet run by a desktop chip? Makes no sense and a 10W Ivy Bridge is still going to have the problems of being too high on idle draw.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/06/amd-shows-off-its-first-windows-8-concept-tablet-at-computex-201/

Thats not the point, You said to me that I was clueless and didn't know anything . and you said amd had a tablet . No one is putting anything above 10 watts in a tablet . That plans on selling alot of them . Haswell IB won't sell that well in that form factor but they will destroy anything else in that form factor . Hondo was rumored to go into windows 8 tablets . AMD is good at saying me to without delivering the goods, I read the article on compal didn't happen there was also a hybred in the works another fail for AMD

 

[SiliconWars]

Thats not the point, You said to me that I was clueless and didn't know anything . and you said amd had a tablet . No one is putting anything above 10 watts in a tablet . That plans on selling alot of them . Haswell IB won't sell that well in that form factor but they will destroy anything else in that form factor . Hondo was rumored to go into windows 8 tablets . AMD is good at saying me to without delivering the goods, I read the article on compal didn't happen there was also a hybred in the works another fail for AMD

Or maybe AMD just realised that they already have a few good tablets chips and more coming.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Were are these tablets you speak of . I recall intel I believe it was a cool handheld using intel chip supposedly oak trail Razer , Never happened I hate when this kinda stuff happens. I really liked that handheld device. This happens way to often . I recall debating and elite member on tegra vs imagination in phones . I of course was backing imagination . It was a good debate . When the dust settled it was a complete ass kicking by me. What did a win . A headache . I am an intel fanboy in the sense that I believe R&D and lots of money will win the day . I will support that type of company . The money I see intel spending in R&D and building new fabs is what makes it a fanboy . Most of that money intel spends is spent right here in the USA . I love that part . Intel means alot to millions of americans . That why I am intel fanboy . It has nothing to do with their products . Right now I am ready to drop intel . I do not like holding back products when they can produce them . They have 2 strikes as it is 3rd strike in one year they are done in my book.

 

[SiliconWars]

Were are these tablets you speak of .

You mean the 15 or so that will be getting annouced at CES?

How is intel doing in tablets btw, with all their money and super chips?

 

[Haserath]

I don't know if you can buy them but Compal had some on show in the middle of last year. I don't know why anyone would want one regardless, or an Ivy Bridge. Who the hell wants a tablet run by a desktop chip? Makes no sense and a 10W Ivy Bridge is still going to have the problems of being too high on idle draw.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/06/amd-shows-off-its-first-windows-8-concept-tablet-at-computex-201/

If it never sold, I wouldn't consider it being in tablets.

I want a desktop chip in my tablet with SOC power draw. Intel is working on idle power with active sleep states. Intel is working on near threshold voltage and load power.

AMD can only dream about the amount of research Intel is able to do...

 

[SiliconWars]

If it never sold, I wouldn't consider it being in tablets.

I want a desktop chip in my tablet with SOC power draw. Intel is working on idle power with active sleep states. Intel is working on near threshold voltage and load power.

AMD can only dream about the amount of research Intel is able to do...

You'd think with all that research they'd have been able to win in tablets and phones by now. They can't even beat AMD's 2 year old 40nm APU.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Intel started from the top in performance and working its way down . Intel had alot of catching up to do . This debate for me is dumb as hell is hot. Debating subpar performance because it the new thing . I guess for the AMD guys this is all the rooster cocking they can do . WE have brazo that beat a 2008 chip . I lol evertime AMD beats NV to market . Show me your cards than we will place wager lol. I can't believe they are that stupid . Intel has a GOOD phone chip where is AMDs . Intel is cathing AMD in ondie graphics Haswell will put intel ahead . Intel Silvermont is coming and temesh won't challenge it . Nor will it get into phones. After buying ATI and having to get rid of its fabs. to get a leg up on intel didn't work out so well . but they did have to buy . had amd went to nv this would be a totally differant game now . but they choose ati over having kim as ceo . dave would have been a better ceo than that criminal that destroyed amd . AMD failure has been and is management . AMD killed itself the funeral is to be announced soon .

 

[Haserath]

You'd think with all that research they'd have been able to win in tablets and phones by now. They can't even beat AMD's 2 year old 40nm APU.

... Because it takes longer to make their platform work.

Tablets came in 2010 and smartphones in 2007, both introduced by Apple, so Intel didn't know whether they would be established until Android came and established itself as a competitor. Intel most likely knew Apple was going to stick with their own designs at this point.

So late 2008 Android came. Intel waited to see how the market played out. And probably 2010-2011, they decided to finally take some action. Only once mobile began severely eating into their mobile and desktop business.

This is the amount of time a company has to take to break into the market. They need a complete overhaul of atom, and they need to rework core and core's platform for low power.

 

[SevenThirty]

I'd love to see an argument between you and Drashek.

Why feed the troll?

It's obvious he's just here because nobody is tightening the noose. Drashek incorporated logic, this is just an incoherent ramble that's allowed to roam free. Why? Doesn't matter.

It's obvious why anand no longer wants to do ULV in depth performance testing until next generation, as stated in the link you provided earlier. Ivy overheats, it's not really 17W when you're running benchmarks, and the frame rates fluctuate as bad as a teen girls emotions.

HD4000 at anything sub 18W is a joke, and charts showing Limited Edition (read: paper launch) 13W or 11.5W or w/e ivy is going to be more of a joke. It'll run at 20W+ during benchmarks, then fizzle into a whimper as it cries in the corner after its few minutes of overheating are through. Rumor is tamesh will be single channel, kabini dual channel. Plus kabini would be able to use dual graphics with up to 8700M (find your own links). Seeing 2 or more GCN CU in Kabini is not out of the question. The x4 5110 25W window is probably to do with graphics more than CPU, this is a good thing.

Intel is scared, they have nothing on the low end, and all they can shovel at us is a paper launch ULV ivy that overheats for a minute or two in benchmarks, like kids in a 4 cylinder using NOS before the engine goes BOOM!