Ridley Scott's "Prometheus"

[Ichinisan]

Okay, I'll bite.

Whats the character's motivation? You see those guys for maybe 10 minutes on screen before this point, and they have maybe 6-7 lines each, but you think that is enough to know their motivations and character?

They are minor characters, they don't say much, and then they die.

I think I found out why you don't like the movie, you seem to think you can look at something for 10 seconds and instantly know everything about it. The movie is too deep for you and you don't like anything that requires analysis or thinking.

Um, yes. You'd have to be dense to miss the characterizations. They were not subtle.

On the Prometheus:
The biologist tries to make friends with the geologist.
(Paraphrase of geologist)
"I'm a hard-ass professional."
"I'm in it for the money."
"Do not try to befriend me."
"I do not work well with others."

-Why was this guy selected for the mission?

At the dead alien corpse:
(Paraphrase of geologist and biologist)
"We are frightened pussies and want to get the fuck out of this place."
"Goodbye, losers!"

- Anyone else in their fields of expertise would be fascinated to be there.

After the storm:
(Paraphrase of geologist)
"I'm lost! "

- Equipment is working perfectly and he's supposed to be competent professional.
- He's in constant communication with the Prometheus and everyone else made it out without him, even though they left at least 10-15 minutes later.

After everyone else is back on the ship:
(Paraphrase of captain on the Prometheus)
"A life form keeps popping up to the west of you."
(Paraphrase of geologist)
"Then we're staying east."

- Obviously implying that he's still freaked-out by unfamiliar alien stuff.

For no particular reason, the geologist and biologist return to the dead alien:
(Paraphrase of geologist and biologist)
"We're curious now! Let's step over this dead alien corpse that freaked us out earlier and check out this creepy room!"

- Even though everyone else is gone now, they are no longer freaked-out by the dead alien?

In the room with the black ooze:
(Paraphrase of geologist)
"Even though I presented myself as a hard-ass earlier, I'm going to joke around and get high off my suit-integrated bong."
(Paraphrase of biologist)
"Check out this cute penis-vagina-cobra! Awwww, how cuuuute! It's hissing at me! So beautiful!"
"AAAAAAAAAAAAUGH! GYAAAAH!"


Absolutely unacceptable.

 

[Ichinisan]

Did you *see* Alien? Guy sticks his head down to look at some alien thing growing on the ground, it jumps out and attaches to his face.

It was a leathery thing that didn't seem to have any mobility at all. This was the proper thing for a fascinated scientist to do: Investigate.

Fast forward to Prometheus: guy looks at a snake thing that comes slithering up, freezing hoping it won't strike, it does anyway.

Check any other horror movie, you will see the same things.

You are the reason they think it's OK to write nonsense screenplays. You would stick your face in a cobra-facehugger that's hissing at you...because you're "hoping it won't strike?"

Please...just stop.

This is how movies are made. It sounds like you guys don't like movies.

On the contrary. I love movies. I hate that this kind of sloppy film-making is becoming more prevalent and ruining movies that had the potential to be great.

 

[Ichinisan]

Oh my god this movie is so DEEP I just shat myself!

Go go Space Jesus!

This.

 

[Ichinisan]

It is not acceptable to make such characters incredibly stupid, despite just being minor. They were handpicked for a gazillion dollar mission, surely anyone with an iq below a rock wouldn't have been chosen.

Its distracting when you are focusing on an otherwise great suspense movie. To me its jut lazy writing to add suspense/action .

...and this.

 

[Chiropteran]

You are the reason they think it's OK to write nonsense screenplays. You would stick your face in a cobra-facehugger that's hissing at you...because you're "hoping it won't strike?"

Now you are just making stuff up. The guy doesn't stick his face in front of the snake, the snake moves in front of his face.

And yes, this happens in movies all the time. You must be trolling if you are trying to deny it.

Here are 3,880 examples to prove my point:

http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...10.6.1.1.0.128.604.7j3.10.0...0.0.EZKreGvZb1Y

 

[Chiropteran]

-Why was this guy selected for the mission?

You missed the entire plot of the movie I guess. The crew was selected to be EXPENDABLE. Weylan was fine with them all dying, if it meant he had at least some tiny desperate chance to prolong his life through contact with the Engineers.

He didn't want the best of the best, he wanted idiots or zealots who were easily controlled and manipulated and wouldn't ask questions.

 

[Ichinisan]

Now you are just making stuff up. The guy doesn't stick his face in front of the snake, the snake moves in front of his face.

And yes, this happens in movies all the time. You must be trolling if you are trying to deny it.

Here are 3,880 examples to prove my point:

http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...10.6.1.1.0.128.604.7j3.10.0...0.0.EZKreGvZb1Y

Not making it up. Did you watch the same movie? He kneels over and starts cooing at it. Calling it "beautiful" and some sort of pet name like "baby" or "darling."

 

[Ichinisan]

You missed the entire plot of the movie I guess. The crew was selected to be EXPENDABLE. Weylan was fine with them all dying, if it meant he had at least some tiny desperate chance to prolong his life through contact with the Engineers.

He didn't want the best of the best, he wanted idiots or zealots who were easily controlled and manipulated and wouldn't ask questions.

You're saying he wanted the mission to FAIL? Sure.

Don't you think failure would eliminate his tiny, desperate chance to prolong his life?

...also: "Easily controlled or manipulated?" The geologist seemed to be pretty self-centered, and not "easily controlled."

 

[Chiropteran]

Not making it up. Did you watch the same movie? He kneels over and starts cooing at it. Calling it "beautiful" and some sort of pet name like "baby" or "darling."

Sounds like something Steve Irwin would do, but you find it hard to believe anyone would ever do such a thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4_mWRnmWEs

Nice try, but obviously some people just aren't as much of a pussy as you think they should be.

 

[Ichinisan]

Sounds like something Steve Irwin would do, but you find it hard to believe anyone would ever do such a thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4_mWRnmWEs

Nice try, but obviously some people just aren't as much of a pussy as you think they should be.

If Steve Irwin was afraid and ran away from something, why would he suddenly lose all fear without any explanation?

"Nice try."

There's no way to miss the fact that these guys were afraid and wanted to leave. Then, suddenly, they want to mess with things.

I'm not saying the biologist should be a pussy. I'm saying that he *was* a frightened pussy and then suddenly he became a curious, fool-hardy idiot. There is no explanation for this.

 

[Chiropteran]

You're saying he wanted the mission to FAIL? Sure.

Don't you think failure would eliminate his tiny, desperate chance to prolong his life?

Again, you missed the entire plot of the movie. The crews mission: find out if these Engineers were ever even real, and if so ask them why they created us, why lead us here, etc.

Weylan's goal was much simpler, find these engineers and ask or even demand they tell him how to prolong his own life. While there is some overlap in the missions, ultimately he didn't give a shit if the entire crew died if he got what he wanted, while the rest of the crew probably felt that dying was a bad thing.

This is THE EXACT SAME as the situation in Alien. The crew thinks the mission is to check out the Alien life and report back. The actual mission is to get an Alien and bring it home at all costs even if the crew dies. There is some overlap again, but the whole "crew is expendable" part is where they differ.


In both movies a highly trained and professional crew would be a detriment, as they would stick with their original mission and would not willing allow themselves to become expendable for the whims and profits of Weylan corp or Weylan himself.

...also: "Easily controlled or manipulated?" The geologist seemed to be pretty self-centered, and not "easily controlled."

He died. It's not hard to control a corpse is it?

But yes, a self-centered idiot who is just in it for some money is much easier to control than a more professional individual. An informed crew working together with full knowledge of what is really going on would be a lot harder to control.

 

[Skel]

You're saying he wanted the mission to FAIL? Sure.

Don't you think failure would eliminate his tiny, desperate chance to prolong his life?

...also: "Easily controlled or manipulated?" The geologist seemed to be pretty self-centered, and not "easily controlled."

It’s interesting that for a movie you hated so much that every other post is yours. It’s almost like you’re trying to convince anyone who liked it the errors of their ways. Personally I liked it well enough, but can’t disagree with a lot of the dissecting that this tread has done. All in all it’s a movie and what the motivation of some jack ass that wanted to play with the space cobra was isn’t something I waste a lot of time on.

 

[SSSnail]

Yeah except the first time they were in that room he was afraid of his own shadow, still afraid of his own shadow when running away from the strange noise, then all of a sudden wanted to make sweet love to an alien cobra. Makes a whole lot of sense.

wait a minute, is a phallic looking thing isn't it? I now see where you're coming from.

 

[Ichinisan]

You're saying he wanted the mission to FAIL? Sure.

Don't you think failure would eliminate his tiny, desperate chance to prolong his life?

...also: "Easily controlled or manipulated?" The geologist seemed to be pretty self-centered, and not "easily controlled."

Again, you missed the entire plot of the movie. The crews mission: find out if these Engineers were ever even real, and if so ask them why they created us, why lead us here, etc.

Why bring a geologist and biologist at all if they're "expendable" and you don't need them?

Weylan's goal was much simpler, find these engineers and ask or even demand they tell him how to prolong his own life. While there is some overlap in the missions, ultimately he didn't give a shit if the entire crew died if he got what he wanted, while the rest of the crew probably felt that dying was a bad thing.

I guess he didn't need a crew at all, huh?

This is THE EXACT SAME as the situation in Alien. The crew thinks the mission is to check out the Alien life and report back. The actual mission is to get an Alien and bring it home at all costs even if the crew dies. There is some overlap again, but the whole "crew is expendable" part is where they differ.


In both movies a highly trained and professional crew would be a detriment, as they would stick with their original mission and would not willing allow themselves to become expendable for the whims and profits of Weylan corp or Weylan himself.

You're still not getting it. In Alien, each character has reasons for their behavior; so their actions make sense. In Prometheus, they do not have reasons for their changing behavior; so their actions do not make sense.

You're saying he wanted the mission to FAIL? Sure.

Don't you think failure would eliminate his tiny, desperate chance to prolong his life?

...also: "Easily controlled or manipulated?" The geologist seemed to be pretty self-centered, and not "easily controlled."

He died. It's not hard to control a corpse is it?

But yes, a self-centered idiot who is just in it for some money is much easier to control than a more professional individual. An informed crew working together with full knowledge of what is really going on would be a lot harder to control.

Why bring a geologist in the first place if you don't need him and it doesn't matter that he dies?

Even if you don't need him and he's expendable, that's dismissing the bigger point that the character's decisions make no sense.

WHAT THE FUCK MADE HIM RETURN TO THE ROOM WITH THE BLACK OOZE AND GO INSIDE?!

 

[Chiropteran]

There's no way to miss the fact that these guys were afraid and wanted to leave. Then, suddenly, they want to mess with things.

I'm not saying the biologist should be a pussy. I'm saying that he *was* a frightened pussy and then suddenly he became a curious, fool-hardy idiot. There is no explanation for this.

I think I would be pretty freaked out if I ran into a beheaded corpse. On the other hand, living on the East Coast I see little harmless spiders and centipedes all the time and think nothing of them.

I don't find it unreasonable that a biologist who probably has handled and understands many dangerous life forms would feel a little more comfortable around one than he would a beheaded nearly-human corpse.

But really, I didn't even think it was worth thinking about. Gotta love how you have to make these detailed explanations where you claim to know what the characters are thinking to justify why you don't like the movie. It's okay dude, just admit you don't understand any of it and give up.

For me it was an entertaining movie. For you, apparently it's the end of the world and you must make everyone else see your point of view about this horrible terrible movie because if someone likes the movie without seeing all the flaws you see something really terrible will happen. Why is this so important to you? I don't go to Twilight message boards and post shit about how much the movies suck, because I don't care and have no reason to care. You seem to have a lot of emotional attachment in making sure people don't like this movie.

 

[Gibsons]

I'm not saying the biologist should be a pussy. I'm saying that he *was* a frightened pussy and then suddenly he became a curious, fool-hardy idiot. There is no explanation for this.

I would've been sort of okay if he'd been a fraidy cat throughout. Not someone you'd pick for a mission like this, but at least sort of consistent.

Still, his reaction to the alien corpse should've been 'OMG my whole life I never thought I'd see something like this, let's get samples, analyze it, etc. etc.'

 

[Ichinisan]

It’s interesting that for a movie you hated so much that every other post is yours. It’s almost like you’re trying to convince anyone who liked it the errors of their ways. Personally I liked it well enough, but can’t disagree with a lot of the dissecting that this tread has done. All in all it’s a movie and what the motivation of some jack ass that wanted to play with the space cobra was isn’t something I waste a lot of time on.

Yeah, but there are numerous similar "fail" moments in the movie that simply can't be ignored. I can't bring myself to say that it's OK when the filmmakers simply had to attend a test screening to realize that certain things needed to be fixed before the movie was "done."

Vickers runs from a rolling spaceship and stays in its path. Shaw does the same and sees Vickers get squished, but continues running in its path. Shaw falls, then rolls out of the way.

 

[Ichinisan]

I think I would be pretty freaked out if I ran into a beheaded corpse. On the other hand, living on the East Coast I see little harmless spiders and centipedes all the time and think nothing of them.

I don't find it unreasonable that a biologist who probably has handled and understands many dangerous life forms would feel a little more comfortable around one than he would a beheaded nearly-human corpse.

But really, I didn't even think it was worth thinking about. Gotta love how you have to make these detailed explanations where you claim to know what the characters are thinking to justify why you don't like the movie. It's okay dude, just admit you don't understand any of it and give up.

For me it was an entertaining movie. For you, apparently it's the end of the world and you must make everyone else see your point of view about this horrible terrible movie because if someone likes the movie without seeing all the flaws you see something really terrible will happen. Why is this so important to you? I don't go to Twilight message boards and post shit about how much the movies suck, because I don't care and have no reason to care. You seem to have a lot of emotional attachment in making sure people don't like this movie.

It doesn't bother me one bit that he's afraid of an unfamiliar situation. It bothers me that his behavior / attitude changes for absolutely no reason. How many times do I have to say it? The situation only gets worse and more stressful / frightening, but he becomes comfortable and curious.

...and I've said the movie is worth watching. I recommended that my sister should watch it and I saw it again in IMAX 3D.

Though I recommend watching it, I will not agree that it's a "good movie." I can't stand to see someone defending the parts that are particularly bad and indefensible. You are deliberately self-delusional. You want to like it so much, you're making excuses for it.

 

[Chiropteran]

Though I recommend watching it, I will not agree that it's a "good movie." I can't stand to see someone defending the parts that are particularly bad and indefensible. You are deliberately self-delusional. You want to like it so much, you're making excuses for it.

I have a simple philosophy when it comes to movies.

If there are two different reasonable explanations for an action, and one explanation makes sense while the other explanation makes no sense, I go with the first explanation.

My impression is that you do the opposite. I provide a reasonable explanation, and you insist that your explanation is the correct one, since it leads to the film being "flawed".

It's something like Occam's razor for me, I'd rather assume the reasonable explanation is the intended one.


And yes, I think it's reasonable for an unstable biologist to be freaked out by a CORPSE but fascinated by a harmless-looking "snake". You disagree, because it allows you to think of the movie as flawed. I prefer to accept the explanation that makes the movie enjoyable to watch.

 

[Skel]

Yeah, but there are numerous similar "fail" moments in the movie that simply can't be ignored. I can't bring myself to say that it's OK when the filmmakers simply had to attend a test screening to realize that certain things needed to be fixed before the movie was "done."

Vickers runs from a rolling spaceship and stays in its path. Shaw does the same and sees Vickers get squished, but continues running in its path. Shaw falls, then rolls out of the way.

Funny enough, while I agree with a lot of what you’ve said, there’s a very long history of people making the stupidest decisions when they’re scared. I think Malcom Gladwell in the Tipping Point (thought it might have been another book, a lot of that stuff blurs together years later) talked about how the more freaked out someone is the narrower their view becomes. People scared and freaked out don’t see everything that someone sitting in a theater chair does. In every disaster there’s the part where everyone plays hindsight and corrects mistakes the people involved made, as if they’d know better in the same situation. Does that condone the stupidity in the movie, no… but it does point out for all the talk about motivation no one mentions the fact that people were scared, and therefore really stupid.. not stupid let me play with the alien space cobra stupid.. but I’m not thinking about running side to side stupid.

 

[Ichinisan]

I have a simple philosophy when it comes to movies.

If there are two different reasonable explanations for an action, and one explanation makes sense while the other explanation makes no sense, I go with the first explanation.

My impression is that you do the opposite. I provide a reasonable explanation, and you insist that your explanation is the correct one, since it leads to the film being "flawed".

Please quote the post where you provided a reasonable explanation for the biologist's behavior changing from "scared pussy" to "curious fool."

It's something like Occam's razor for me, I'd rather assume the reasonable explanation is the intended one.

That's the problem: There is no reasonable explanation!

And yes, I think it's reasonable for an unstable biologist to be freaked out by a CORPSE but fascinated by a harmless-looking "snake".

When will you acknowledge that hissing and aggressive cobra-like behavior is not "harmless-looking?" Please realize that you are deluding yourself for the sake of a movie that doesn't deserve it.

You disagree, because it allows you to think of the movie as flawed. I prefer to accept the explanation that makes the movie enjoyable to watch.

I wish there was an explanation for me to accept.

 

[Chiropteran]

When will you acknowledge that hissing and aggressive cobra-like behavior is not "harmless-looking?" Please realize that you are deluding yourself for the sake of a movie that doesn't deserve it.

Huh? Did you watch the same movie as me? If that snake was any sort of normal "earth snake", the guy would have been fine in his suit. Thick glass all around the head, some sort of plastic material around the rest of the body, WTF is any normal snake going to do? I wouldn't be afraid of a rattlesnake if I was wearing armor like that.

The incredible strength and the acidic blood of the "snake" are what killed the guy, but he had no way of predicting that. I find his actions reasonable in light of the idea that no previous creature he has came into contact with has ever been that strong or deadly.

Please quote the post where you provided a reasonable explanation for the biologist's behavior changing from "scared pussy" to "curious fool."

Asked and answered, but since you want to play dumb I'll spell it out again.

A corpse, especially a human-like corpse, is scary to a lot of people. A snake isn't scary to a biologist who handles animals all the time and is wearing a space suit.

 

[Ichinisan]

Funny enough, while I agree with a lot of what you’ve said, there’s a very long history of people making the stupidest decisions when they’re scared.

It can't really apply in this case. The biologist just wasn't scared anymore, and that's what can't be explained.

You're right that stupid decisions are often made out of fear...but I don't think that applies in this case.

 

[Ichinisan]

Huh? Did you watch the same movie as me? If that snake was any sort of normal "earth snake", the guy would have been fine in his suit. Thick glass all around the head, some sort of plastic material around the rest of the body, WTF is any normal snake going to do? I wouldn't be afraid of a rattlesnake if I was wearing armor like that.

The incredible strength and the acidic blood of the "snake" are what killed the guy, but he had no way of predicting that. I find his actions reasonable in light of the idea that no previous creature he has came into contact with has ever been that strong or deadly.

Please quote the post where you provided a reasonable explanation for the biologist's behavior changing from "scared pussy" to "curious fool."

Asked and answered, but since you want to play dumb I'll spell it out again.

A corpse, especially a human-like corpse, is scary to a lot of people. A snake isn't scary to a biologist who handles animals all the time and is wearing a space suit.

A 2,000-year-old dead alien with no head would not be "more frightening" than a hissing cobra-like living alien. Even if it was more frightening (which I do not concede), his reaction to the alien cobra was completely opposite.

He wasn't simply "less afraid" of the alien cobra. He was almost completely unafraid, and wouldn't stop messing with it.

...and his familiarity with creatures on Earth would include an understanding of constrictors and how they kill.

 

[Skel]

It can't really apply in this case. The biologist just wasn't scared anymore, and that's what can't be explained.

You're right that stupid decisions are often made out of fear...but I don't think that applies in this case.

I missed where the bio said they weren't afraid anymore.