RIM death watch

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shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
Not saying it's not useful, but can someone tell me what these e-mail apps are and how they help?

I just use hotmail, gmail and yahoo by going to the website. I know I'm totally missing something, just don't know what. Never bothered to learn/inquire.


Ya, reviews look pretty meh. Using Xoom as an indicator, can't expect much sales-wise. Maybe slightly more because of brand loyalty and the commercial market. Then again, why not just get everyone a fully functional 10-12" Thinkpad or Macbook Air?

I dont know about Blackberry but with Android I can have all my accounts in one location with a single App. In fact on Honeycomb it was darn nice looking and extremely easy to use.
Only downside was the widgets. I need two. One for Gmail type accounts (home and school) and one for all the others (hotmail, yahoo, ISP).
Of course, the average person only has one that they check regularly and so its just as easy to make a web bookmark to it and you're good.
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
By now you've no doubt read or at least heard about the New York Times interview where RIM's co-CEOs wound up asking most of the questions and challenged conventional wisdom about the company, or seen the BBC interview that Mike Lazaridis put an abrupt end to (see below, if you haven't). Those both offer plenty of juicy morsels for folks like us to chew on, but they're also indicative of a broader sense of frustration from the company that's getting difficult to ignore. One that is strikingly similar to what we've recently seen from another company that grew to dominate on the world stage, became a figure of national pride in its home country, and is now struggling to reinvent itself in the face of stiff competition: Nokia. To get an idea of how similar the two situations are, we only need to look back to 2009 --admittedly an eternity in the smartphone business, but not really that long ago. While Nokia still dominated the worldwide smartphone market with Symbian by year's end, there were clear signs that was about to change, with Nokia's share slipping a full ten percent in the fourth quarter of 2009 alone --largely at the expense of Apple and, yes, RIM. After that, it wasn't long before the company's CEO found himself in the hot seat, while Gartner and countless others began tossing around phrases like "re-arranging the deck chairs." We all know what happened next. Now the numbers are painting a similarly difficult position for RIM. According to a recent Gartner report, RIM's market share is expected to continue a slow decline to just eleven percent by 2015 (long after its switch to QNX), while Android, iOS, and Windows Phone 7 (boosted in part by Nokia's acceptance) are all projected to continue to grow or hold their own, and leave RIM in a relatively distant fourth place by 2015. Of course, those projections are just that... projections, and RIM could well still swing things in its favor if it makes the right moves --even if the PlayBook isn't quite the magic bullet it was hoping for. It won't, however, if it continues with a headstrong approach and ignores any criticism --or worse, continues to vent its frustrations in public. I'm not pretending to know what all those right moves might be, but RIM could learn a few things from the hard questions Nokia posed to itself when it finally came to the realization that it was a fading giant. In his now famous "burning platform" memo, Nokia CEO Stephen Elop said the company had to choose whether to "build, catalyze or join an ecosystem." With its slow shift to QNX as its primary operating system, continued promises about the current BlackBerry OS, and half-hearted embrace of Android apps, it's increasingly starting to look like RIM is trying to do all three, but only succeeding in tying itself to a sinking ship.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/14/editorial-rim-weve-been-here-before/

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/11/technology/companies/11rim.html?_r=1



It's not just market share, but mind share, RIM is losing both.

Here's an interesting thought, how many children know exactly what an iPad is? The world is changing...
 
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Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,234
136
Not saying it's not useful, but can someone tell me what these e-mail apps are and how they help?

I just use hotmail, gmail and yahoo by going to the website. I know I'm totally missing something, just don't know what. Never bothered to learn/inquire.


Ya, reviews look pretty meh. Using Xoom as an indicator, can't expect much sales-wise. Maybe slightly more because of brand loyalty and the commercial market. Then again, why not just get everyone a fully functional 10-12" Thinkpad or Macbook Air?

You don't normally get near-instant push notification with simple webmail on a mobile device. My iPhone 4 does Gmail and Hotmail with Exchange ActiveSync protocol, so I get push support. It's like the Blackberry experience in that regard.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,414
1,574
126
You don't normally get near-instant push notification with simple webmail on a mobile device. My iPhone 4 does Gmail and Hotmail with Exchange ActiveSync protocol, so I get push support. It's like the Blackberry experience in that regard.

not to mention going to google app or gmail.com would only lead you to 1 account whereas you can have multiple email accounts under 1 email app

in my case personal / side work/ work emails accessible under 1 location.

in Imp's case, he could link hotmail / gmail / yahoo to said email app and access all 3 with 1 click (complete w/ push notifications)
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/9001c124-71ee-11e0-9adf-00144feabdc0.html?ftcamp=rss#axzz1Ks9ZGyNN



Research in Motion’s shares plunged as much as 11 per cent in after-hours trading after the BlackBerry maker issued a surprise profit warning due to increasing competition from Apple and Google as well as delays in the launch of an updated generation of smartphones.
RIM said on Thursday that it had cut its sales and profit forecasts for the current quarter because of slower-than-expected demand for its ageing smartphones, which have begun to look increasingly dated alongside the iPhone and other touchscreen-based handsets.
It's pretty unusual for a company to issue mid quarter guidance that bad, unless they expect horrible numbers.
 
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dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
I am surprised the Corporate users abandoned the Blackberry platform so quick

RIM declared dead today

4-29-2011

http://www.itworld.com/mobile-wireless/160601/rip-rim

RIP, RIM



Disappointing sales force BlackBerry maker to cut earnings forecast as market share continues precipitous decline


Once considered the gold standard of smartphones -- especially in the corporate sector, where jokes about the addictive "CrackBerry" were common -- the BlackBerry has seen its market share erode faster than Lindsay Lohan's acting career in recent years as first Apple's iPhone, and then devices powered by Google's Android OS, have stolen its thunder and cachet. (Seriously, when was the last time you heard a "CrackBerry" reference?)

Four years ago, the BlackBerry was the smartphone market leader. Now it's in third place and sinking fast.

Sad to say, some bad things are ahead for RIM, including layoffs. It's not going to be pretty to watch, and it's hard not to get the feeling that RIM has passed a tipping point in terms of remaining competitive as a standalone mobile device manufacturer.
 

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,829
184
106
Surprised this thread didn't resurface sooner or more frequently.

Stock is down 13% today. Know someone who bought in when it was at $55. Down about 30% probably by now. I checked out at $66 and made some phat loot.
 

Gibson486

Lifer
Aug 9, 2000
18,378
1
0
Dam....they have an office in my area....looks like i got even more competition after my layoff
 

Zeze

Lifer
Mar 4, 2011
11,210
1,080
126
Don't corporations still have a firm grip on BB usage?

My GF, myself, my two friends all have BB from work.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
Don't corporations still have a firm grip on BB usage?

My GF, myself, my two friends all have BB from work.

Actually I've heard of many places who happily swapped over to Android or iPhone at the request of massive numbers of employees. Turns out most people dont actually need the superior business functions on a Blackberry. They get by just fine with any smart phone.
IT usually complains, but they are rarely heeded when it comes to form over function.

Think of all the companies that swapped to cute little slim all-in-one computers cuz they were "cool" then complain constantly about all the problems.
 

Lifted

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2004
5,752
2
0
Everyone is saying RIM is doomed (and they may well be) but the logic just doesn't hold up for me.

RIM is always going to look bad when looking at smart phone market share since they are primiarly a corporate device, and only consumers who love the blackberry keyboard, BBM, or some other feature will stay loyal. All other blackberry owners and new smart phone purchasers have little reason to purchase a BB over and Android based phone or iPhone.

For corporate email, is there really a secure alternative yet? Is there any way to sync public contact folders with iPhone or Android? Simply rooting an iPhone or Android = no security at all.

I agree that blackberry is falling behind, and they would be out of business already if there was a competitor in the corporate email market, but there is none. All of these reviews by expert IT journalists jumped on the "Android and iPhone are sooooo much better than a blackberry" bandwagon and completely ignored the obvious.

Let's not also forget the Blackberry unlimited global data plans for an extra $1/day while traveling out of the country. Good luck trying to get that sort of a deal on your iPhone or Android.
 
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RedRooster

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2000
6,596
0
76
Don't corporations still have a firm grip on BB usage?

My GF, myself, my two friends all have BB from work.

Ya, BES is all I can see it has left for us(Feds). The sooner it dies, the more fun it will be to work in IT and deploy cool devices to our managers. Giving them a Torch and having a personal Android or iPhone sitting on our desks is embarassing for them.
 

ConstipatedVigilante

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2006
7,671
1
0
I bought at 58...I'm just hoping that it goes back up so I can take a smaller loss. Worst investment I've made.

I don't think RIMM is going under anytime soon, though. They are eye-deep in cash and have little debt.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,234
136
...
For corporate email, is there really a secure alternative yet? Is there any way to sync public contact folders with iPhone or Android? Simply rooting an iPhone or Android = no security at all.
...
Is Exchange / ActiveSync protocol "secure?" Android and iDevices support that.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Has anyone done a formal evaluation of RIM's stock recently? I'm wondering if I should take the time to - I love investing when companies go down.
 

Lifted

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2004
5,752
2
0
Is Exchange / ActiveSync protocol "secure?" Android and iDevices support that.

Not in the way that BES makes a blackberry secure. A blackberry can be locked down via BES, and as far as I know, there is no way for the user or a thief to overcome the security restraints. If apps are blocked from being installed, then you will never get an app installed, period.

While ActiveSync has limited control over iPhone or Android devices, such as password requirements, it does not come close to the level that BES maintains on the devices. As I said before, rooting an iPhone or Android can overcome the password requirements that ActiveSync enforces, and any other ActiveSync policies (It's been a while since I've looked, but I don't remember seeing much more than the password enforcement and some other basics).

If Microsoft has any sense, they will resolve these issues (if they exist) on Windows Phone 7 devices and perhaps have a chance at competing with RIM for the enterprise segment. Oddly enough, it appears Apple has proven to the world that you can make much more money in the consumer segment, at the same time avoiding all of the hassles of design and support around the strict requirements of the enterprise market. With that in mind, I don't think anyone can be sure that RIM will ever face any competition in this "shrinking" enterprise market.
 

sjwaste

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2000
8,760
12
81
BB is still, technologically, the best corporate solution. The device can be fully encrypted, for one. The integration with corporate email is also second to none.

The reason they're losing, though, is that the price differential is simply getting too large. I realize there are a lot of armchair IT folks here, myself included, but you'd be surprised when you see what it costs to deploy BES, handsets, and all of the licensing costs involved. RIM has pushed corporate to the point where they're looking at other devices, especially Exchange + Windows Phone/Windows Mobile, as "good enough" given the price point.

You do need to step back and separate the technology and its costs for the bigger picture. Corporations have deep pockets as a general rule, but the large ones don't spend stupidly. IT is a cost center at most, and every dollar spent there is a dollar that can't go toward marketing, sales, and the product.

RIM isn't dead, but they need to focus on becoming a better value. I guarantee your corporate IT decisionmakers do not care one bit whether the handheld device is the coolest, latest thing. They do care that it's secure, stable, and user-friendly, because security breaches, product downtime/replacement, and support are all major cost drivers.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,234
136
Not in the way that BES makes a blackberry secure. A blackberry can be locked down via BES, and as far as I know, there is no way for the user or a thief to overcome the security restraints. If apps are blocked from being installed, then you will never get an app installed, period.
I think the MobileMe Control Panel allows this for iDevices. Still not 100% sure how secure it is.
 

Lifted

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2004
5,752
2
0
The reason they're losing, though, is that the price differential is simply getting too large. I realize there are a lot of armchair IT folks here, myself included, but you'd be surprised when you see what it costs to deploy BES, handsets, and all of the licensing costs involved. RIM has pushed corporate to the point where they're looking at other devices, especially Exchange + Windows Phone/Windows Mobile, as "good enough" given the price point.

I've found the exact opposite. For a company that has a monopoly on secure mobile email, they charge relatively little. Devices are practically given away as long as you are renewing 2 year contracts. $1/day unlimited global data plans are available only because of the RIM global data network. BES costs (licensing and support) are a tiny fraction of the entire messaging solution, which likely includes Exchange or Lotus/Domino, hardware, and administration and support resources. I think you could get away with under $10,000/year for BES with 1,000 users.
 

sjwaste

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2000
8,760
12
81
I've found the exact opposite. For a company that has a monopoly on secure mobile email, they charge relatively little. Devices are practically given away as long as you are renewing 2 year contracts. $1/day unlimited global data plans are available only because of the RIM global data network. BES costs (licensing and support) are a tiny fraction of the entire messaging solution, which likely includes Exchange or Lotus/Domino, hardware, and administration and support resources. I think you could get away with under $10,000/year for BES with 1,000 users.

You probably know more than me on the pricing, then. I admit I'm an armchair IT guy. I haven't been involved in this sort of thing in years.

Windows Mobile pretty much is given away, though. Low cost handsets, no licensing fees if you're already paying for Exchange (IIRC).

I've never worked for an enterprise with only 1000 users, though. The smallest company I've worked for is 25,000 people. I'm now with the largest department in the federal govt, but I'm sure we catch a break for being government and sheer volume.
 

Lifted

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2004
5,752
2
0
You probably know more than me on the pricing, then. I admit I'm an armchair IT guy. I haven't been involved in this sort of thing in years.

Windows Mobile pretty much is given away, though. Low cost handsets, no licensing fees if you're already paying for Exchange (IIRC).

I've never worked for an enterprise with only 1000 users, though. The smallest company I've worked for is 25,000 people. I'm now with the largest department in the federal govt, but I'm sure we catch a break for being government and sheer volume.

Yeah, there are government rates and volume discounts, so your department would have fairly low direct costs per head for BES and devices. The large percentage of the costs would come from admin and end user support (helpdesk). I'm not in education or government, and even with higher costs per head than your agency due to lower volume and no gov pricing, it's still cheap by any standards.

Windows Mobile and Blackberry devices are both pretty much given away these days. With Android and iPhones only costing $200 with 2/yr contracts, who would pay anything for such dated devices?
 

Lifted

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2004
5,752
2
0
I think the MobileMe Control Panel allows this for iDevices. Still not 100% sure how secure it is.

I don't know anything about MobileMe. Isn't that a desktop syncing tool? I believe all Exchange syncing is done via ActiveSync.
 
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