RIM death watch

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AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
3
81
One thing is that even in emerging and/or 3rd world markets, people are rejecting Blackberry haha.. Samsung and to a lesser extent Apple are kicking global arse, to Blackberry's expense.

If I were the Blackberry CEO, I would do the following to save my firm:

- Conduct thorough market research globally to find out what phone users want. Use this information to build a phone based on innovation. Hit Apple and Samsung at their own game.

- Make this new phone an Android model.

- Licence BBM to Android, iOS and Win phone. Pay Google, Apple and MS a fee for use.

They needed to do that years ago. It's too late to do that now.
 

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,828
184
106
Ironically, even as a Canadian, I was surprised they lasted anywhere near as long as they did, and I was surprised the stock went anywhere near as high as it did. I've always really disliked RIM's products, and disliked them even before the iPhone came out. They all seemed stodgy, corporate, and uninspired, including their later consumer-oriented products. Around the mid 2000s, I started telling people that investing in RIM probably wasn't a great idea, although truthfully it was mainly just because I didn't like their products, not because I really understood the stock... which is evidenced by the fact that RIMM stock started to spike after that, in the later 2000s, and stayed high until the big general market crash in 2008.

I don't think you were that far off in the long-run...

I actually made a bit of money flipping RIM after the Playbook announcement. Thank goodness I sold the last time it hit $65 before it dumped down to $40 and proceeded to keep falling.
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
11
81
One thing is that even in emerging and/or 3rd world markets, people are rejecting Blackberry haha.. Samsung and to a lesser extent Apple are kicking global arse, to Blackberry's expense.

If I were the Blackberry CEO, I would do the following to save my firm:

- Conduct thorough market research globally to find out what phone users want. Use this information to build a phone based on innovation. Hit Apple and Samsung at their own game.

- Make this new phone an Android model.

- Licence BBM to Android, iOS and Win phone. Pay Google, Apple and MS a fee for use.

None of this will work.

Apple didn't build the phone users asked for. Users didn't know what they wanted at the time. Apple invented a new phone and consumers went for it. If you ask consumers what they want in a phone, they'll tell you bigger (or smaller), faster, longer battery life, thinner, lighter, better camera, more storage space, etc etc. Some will say removable battery, some will say keyboard, some will say expandable storage... You won't get a good picture.

You can't innovate by asking people what they want. That isn't innovation. Innovation is coming up with something that people don't know they want.

Android is going to be a fail for blackberry. You want to turn them into a hardware company when there is no way they'll be able to compete with Samsung, LG, HTC, or Motorola. It's giving up their strength and betting on their weakness.
 

theevilsharpie

Platinum Member
Nov 2, 2009
2,322
14
81
Android is going to be a fail for blackberry. You want to turn them into a hardware company when there is no way they'll be able to compete with Samsung, LG, HTC, or Motorola. It's giving up their strength and betting on their weakness.

/facepalm

You seem to be stuck on this notion that using Android == becoming a generic hardware vendor. Blackberry doesn't design their own SoC—why should they design their own OS?

You mention Samsung, LG, HTC, or Motorola, but those are all strictly hardware vendors. Other than perhaps Samsung (whose software is an afterthought), they didn't have BBM, they didn't have BES, they didn't have existing relationships with IT departments, and for the first few years, Android's Exchange integration was a joke. If BlackBerry had jumped on the Android bandwagon earlier, not only would they have been an immediately credible vendor, they could've leveraged BES to become the default Android MDM vendor, which would've have given them a fallback in case their hardware division didn't pan out.
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,764
347
126
None of this will work.

Apple didn't build the phone users asked for. Users didn't know what they wanted at the time. Apple invented a new phone and consumers went for it. If you ask consumers what they want in a phone, they'll tell you bigger (or smaller), faster, longer battery life, thinner, lighter, better camera, more storage space, etc etc. Some will say removable battery, some will say keyboard, some will say expandable storage... You won't get a good picture.

You can't innovate by asking people what they want. That isn't innovation. Innovation is coming up with something that people don't know they want.

Android is going to be a fail for blackberry. You want to turn them into a hardware company when there is no way they'll be able to compete with Samsung, LG, HTC, or Motorola. It's giving up their strength and betting on their weakness.

This is an accurate analysis, unless they fork android in a very novel way. But just trying to develop another android phone will fail them.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,418
1,599
126
If BlackBerry had jumped on the Android bandwagon earlier, not only would they have been an immediately credible vendor, they could've leveraged BES to become the default Android MDM vendor, which would've have given them a fallback in case their hardware division didn't pan out.

That was then. This is now.
 

theevilsharpie

Platinum Member
Nov 2, 2009
2,322
14
81
That was then. This is now.

Yep.

BlackBerry as we know them today is doomed. They had an opportunity to build an ecosystem with BB10 or switch gears and cement themselves as the premier Android provider, but that ship sailed years ago.
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
23,809
1,388
126
You can't innovate by asking people what they want. That isn't innovation. Innovation is coming up with something that people don't know they want.
Well, it can help the process. Also, one thing that can also help is learning what people know they don't want or what they have major problems with.

Back in the heyday of Sony Ericsson candy bar phones, I kept on thinking to myself that Sony's hardware was decent but I did not want to deal with their TERRIBLE software. It was absolute crap, and seriously took away from the experience.

If I am to expand on that, what I did know is that I wanted some consistent software that was stable and easy to use, and it should work across different models of Sony Ericsson phones. It should be able to sync my contacts and hopefully some music too. Overall it should just facilitate the use of the phone.

And then BAM! Apple released the iPhone which did ALL of that, and then some. It even used iTunes, the same software that ran the iPod.

BTW, I know this is something that I know a lot of people will disagree with here, but one thing I hate about Android is the fact that there is no central PC/Mac software that does everything that iTunes does. I find my Android experience very fractured as a result, and non-rooted restores are a PITA because it's simply not user friendly. Everything has to be done manually or else piecemeal through the cloud, and it's irritating to me. On iOS, almost everything is automated, although for photos it's still a manual process (if you don't use the cloud), which I think is stupid. Apple should implement better photo handling support within iTunes for backups.

As for RIM at the time? Nada. Basically if I wanted use out of it, it almost seemed I should be running an Exchange server or whatever. Their understanding of the consumer market was basically nil. The apps were so crappy, they may as well not have existed. Yeah, apps on other platforms before the iPhone (and Android) were also crappy, but having an app platform just as crappy as the competition doesn't make me want to buy into either platform.

---

BTW, do you know what the biggest surprise for me was, from Apple? It actually wasn't the iPhone. By the time it was about to ship, I kind figured they would have accomplished the above. What really surprised me though was the fact they managed to convince all the carriers to totally revamp their infrastructure to accommodate their product. Even RIM wasn't able to do that. In fact, RIM intentionally borked their hardware/software so that data usage was minimal... In fact they even pushed this as a plus, with their BB data compression, etc.
 
Last edited:
Aug 14, 2001
11,061
0
0
Yes, Canadians were biased toward their own home-grown company, but that's besides the point. A big top tier tech company can exist in any decent sized 1st world country. RIMM didn't die because it was not in the US of A. It died because it was full of itself, and just refused to accept that anyone could knock them off their pedestal.

That's happened with a lot of companies.

Ironically, even as a Canadian, I was surprised they lasted anywhere near as long as they did, and I was surprised the stock went anywhere near as high as it did. I've always really disliked RIM's products, and disliked them even before the iPhone came out. They all seemed stodgy, corporate, and uninspired, including their later consumer-oriented products. Around the mid 2000s, I started telling people that investing in RIM probably wasn't a great idea, although truthfully it was mainly just because I didn't like their products, not because I really understood the stock... which is evidenced by the fact that RIMM stock started to spike after that, in the later 2000s, and stayed high until the big general market crash in 2008.

Speaking of Canadian tech companies, I did manage to make some decent money off ATI though. However, again, I'd be lying if I claimed I truly understood the stock. I just thought they'd do reasonably well and the stock would slowly climb. However, then I lucked out because AMD bought them and the stock jumped overnight. I sold immediately after the announcement.

No, I don't think that any first tier technology company can exist long term in Canada. It can exist outside of the US, but Canadian mentality impedes any such existence in Canada. It's all about the obsession and inferiority complex with the US taking priority over innovation.
 
Last edited:

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,828
184
106
I have the occasional bad habit of trying to catch a falling knife, but thankfully avoided this one:
Oops! BlackBerry even worse off than it thought

Was just about to post that...

Apparently, Ceridian, Cerisman, whatever may be interested in bidding on the company. Just rumour now, but it sent the stock up from its day low. Must have been a 5+% jump.

Now it's slowly falling back down...

*cough* pump and dump *cough*
 

Joe1987

Senior member
Jul 20, 2013
482
0
0
It's looking more and more likely BB will be sold off in pieces. Just saw a target of $5/share
 

mammador

Platinum Member
Dec 9, 2010
2,120
1
76
None of this will work.

Apple didn't build the phone users asked for. Users didn't know what they wanted at the time. Apple invented a new phone and consumers went for it. If you ask consumers what they want in a phone, they'll tell you bigger (or smaller), faster, longer battery life, thinner, lighter, better camera, more storage space, etc etc. Some will say removable battery, some will say keyboard, some will say expandable storage... You won't get a good picture.

You can't innovate by asking people what they want. That isn't innovation. Innovation is coming up with something that people don't know they want.

Android is going to be a fail for blackberry. You want to turn them into a hardware company when there is no way they'll be able to compete with Samsung, LG, HTC, or Motorola. It's giving up their strength and betting on their weakness.

Yeah, so shitty marketing is not their problem?
 

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,828
184
106
New developments in the past week seem to be that Lazardis & buddies are looking to take it over, and Google, Cisco, et al. are thinking of stripping it.

The comments on Canadian news sites are hilarious... Apparently, BB is only one innovation from becoming the next Apple, and Lazardis is Steve Jobs and will run the company properly this time around.
 

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
6,674
7
76
I saw news of Apple hiring BlackBerry CEO yesterday.
I actually had to do a double take on that...
 

Lifted

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2004
5,748
2
0
"Important information from Blackberry" is the subject of the following email.

What does this mean? Is nobody seriously interested in buying them at a price they would be happy with? Is this damage control to keep their value from dropping each day as customers flee and it's taking longer and longer to find a buyer?

TO OUR VALUED CUSTOMERS, PARTNERS AND FANS,

You’ve no doubt seen the headlines about BlackBerry®. You’re probably wondering what they mean for you as one of the tens of millions of users who count on BlackBerry every single day.

We have one important message for you:

YOU CAN CONTINUE TO COUNT ON BLACKBERRY.

How do we know? We have substantial cash on hand and a balance sheet that is debt free. We are restructuring with a goal to cut our expenses by 50 percent in order to run a very efficient, customer-oriented organization.

These are no doubt challenging times for us and we don’t underestimate the situation or ignore the challenges. We are making the difficult changes necessary to strengthen BlackBerry.

One thing we will never change is our commitment to those of you who helped build BlackBerry into the most trusted tool for the world’s business professional.

And speaking of those dramatic headlines, it’s important that we set the record straight on a few things.

BEST IN CLASS PRODUCTIVITY TOOL.

We have completely revamped our device portfolio this year with the launch of BlackBerry® 10. We have four BlackBerry 10 devices – two all touch and two hybrid (touch and QWERTY) – and all are running the third update of our new platform. If what you care about most is getting things done – taking care of your business – we have the best range of devices for you. And we continue to offer the best mobile typing experience – no ifs, ands or buts about it.

BEST IN CLASS SECURITY.

Governments all over the world, global corporations and businesses that simply cannot compromise on security choose and trust BlackBerry. Security is our heritage, and the industry recognizes that BlackBerry is the most secure when it comes to the device, server and, of course, our global data network. Have no doubt that you can continue to trust us to keep your communication safe and private.

BEST IN CLASS ENTERPRISE MOBILITY MANAGEMENT.

We changed with the market, embracing BYOD because we understand that as iOS and Android™ devices become common in the workplace, businesses still need to manage all of these different platforms seamlessly and securely.

This is not a trivial task. While there are a number of startup companies that make bold claims, BlackBerry has more software engineers and the most resources dedicated to developing the most innovative solutions to address this complex challenge.

And our customers know it. Over the past quarter, our BlackBerry® Enterprise Service 10 server base grew from 19,000 to more than 25,000. Corporate clients are committed to deploying and testing the latest enterprise technology from BlackBerry. We are committed to evolving with our customers. That will never change.

BEST IN CLASS MOBILE SOCIAL NETWORK.

We are bringing the most engaging mobile messaging platform to all, with our BBM™ launch for Android™ and iPhone. There are already around six million customers pre-registered to be notified of our roll out. This number is growing every day, and speaks to the tremendous opportunity we have to expand BBM beyond BlackBerry® smartphones to make it the world’s largest mobile social network.

Yes, there is a lot of competition out there and we know that BlackBerry is not for everyone. That’s OK. You have always known that BlackBerry is different, that BlackBerry can set you apart. Countless world-changing decisions have been finalized, deals closed and critical communications made via BlackBerry. And for many of you that created a bond, a connection that goes back more than a decade.

We believe in BlackBerry – our people, our technology and our ability to adapt. More importantly, we believe in you. We focus every day on what it takes to make sure that you can take care of business.

You trust your BlackBerry to deliver your most important messages, so trust us when we deliver one of our own: You can continue to count on us.

Sincerely,
The BlackBerry Team


Follow us @BlackBerry for our updates.
 
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