RIM death watch

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Sep 29, 2004
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I've been using a BlackBerry Passport for about a week now (on loan). It's a pretty good phone! Love the OS, has the vast majority of apps you'd want (their own app store plus the Amazon app store covers most everything), fast as hell browsing the Web or being on Twitter / Facebook.

Give it a try if you miss physical keyboards.

Can you do me a favor and see if RunKeeper is available on the Amazon app store on your Passport. It's the one app I miss from Android. But note, there is a native BB10 app that works for me called CascaRun). I like the CascaRun interface more so then RunKeeper. It uses the native gesture system(called the cascades framework) to end a run so you don't accidentally tap the screen when not looking and end a run like would happen with RunKeeper. RunKeeper saves to the "cloud" though so I can go online and look at my runs in a web browser which is nice.

I find that BB10 has a learning curve but once you get through the curve, it is very simple and fast to use. Once you learn to use BB10 it really shows how old iOS and Android are.
 

KeithTalent

Elite Member | Administrator | No Lifer
Administrator
Nov 30, 2005
50,235
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^^ RunKeeper is there. Just checked through the Amazon app on my Passport.

KT
 
Sep 29, 2004
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Damn, I want 10.3 and a new full touch BB10 phone now! To bad the rumors have the next all touch BB phones as being somewhere between a Z10 and Z30.

Can you see if RunKeeper actually works. Last I knew, it relied on Google Maps which was an issue.
 

Lifted

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2004
5,752
2
0
Nobody else bothered to post this, but it really belongs in the BB history thread.

Blackberry CEO Wants Congress To Make Blackberry Apps Mandatory

Much like Kodak film, Blackberry’s heyday has long since past.

The rise of Apple and Android have not been kind to the business-centric phone maker, and this is reflected in the lack of apps available to Blackberry users. Windows Phone faces a similar problem, and certainly Nokia must feel Blackberry’s pain to some degree.

But unlike Microsoft, Blackberry is turning to the last place any tech company should turn for help when the going gets rough: the US Government.

Recently, Blackberry CEO John Chen wrote to members of congress encouraging them to write “app neutrality” laws into net neutrality legislation.

In a blog post at Blackberry’s website, an adapted version of this letter argues that “all wireless broadband customers must have the ability to access any lawful applications and content they choose, and applications/content providers must be prohibited from discriminating based on the customer’s mobile operating system.”

If You Legislate It, They Will Come

Chen argues that since Blackberry made its messenger service available to iPhone users—which he refers to as “neutrality”—the same consideration should be reciprocated. But he’s not appealing to Apple CEO Tim Cook here, he’s speaking directly to lawmakers. He doesn’t stop with Apple, either.

“Netflix, which has forcefully advocated for carrier neutrality, has discriminated against BlackBerry customers by refusing to make its streaming movie service available to them,” Chen writes, using the language of discrimination to add spice to his rhetoric. “Many other applications providers similarly offer service only to iPhone and Android users. This dynamic has created a two-tiered wireless broadband ecosystem, in which iPhone and Android users are able to access far more content and applications than customers using devices running other operating systems. These are precisely the sort of discriminatory practices that neutrality advocates have criticized at the carrier level.

“Therefore,” Chen concludes, “neutrality must be mandated at the application and content layer if we truly want a free, open and non-discriminatory internet.” (Emphasis in the original.)

Yes, you read that correctly. Chen wants Blackberry apps to be mandated by law. Any developer thinking about releasing content on iOS or Android would be forced by the government to develop for Blackberry and, presumably, Windows Phone and every other platform, no matter how small.

No Games On Your Macintosh Classic

It is striking that the CEO of a major company could hold this view. That he would utilize the rhetoric of discrimination to make his point is nearly as troubling. Developing applications is expensive. Developing them for smaller user-bases is even more expensive.

Meanwhile, being unable to compete in the current market is hardly a symptom of “discrimination.”

When I was a child, my family owned only Apple computers. This was terrible for me, because compared to PC there were almost no games. That was not because of some conspiracy or discrimination on the part of game designers. It was because they believed that the added cost of development would not be recouped by Apple users, who were vastly outnumbered by their PC counterparts.

For a brief time, Android users faced a similar fate. Many games released on iOS and didn’t come out at all on Android because iOS was the dominant ecosystem and because it was easier to develop for the much more standardized iPhone than it was for Android with all its different versions, phone models, etc.

This is slowly changing as Android has taken larger and larger chunks out of the market. And more and more games are rolling out on Mac computers now, too, though it’s too late for this PC owner.

You Can’t Legislate Success

This is the result of success. Both Apple and Google have been successful at selling their products, and they’ve created strong user bases that justify the existence of apps like Netflix, HBO Go, and so forth.

Developers don’t do this for free. If there isn’t profit to be made, bringing apps to smaller platforms is bad business—nothing more, nothing less.

Mandating “app neutrality” and forcing developers to design for every platform for the sake of “a non-discriminatory internet” would not only be excessive government overreach, it would very likely harm small developers and put an undue cost on producers and consumers alike. I can sympathize with Blackberry’s predicament, but legislation is the wrong path toward success.

Chen has it backwards. If Blackberry can turn around and draw users back, developers will start making more content for Blackberry. And while more apps might make that easier for Blackberry, this should be the result of a product people want to buy, not the whim of our legislature.

Of course, all of this is breathtakingly obvious. As TechCrunch’s Catherine Shu writes, “Net neutrality is an extremely important issue with implications for free speech, but rolling “app neutrality” into it seems far-fetched, to say the least.”
Net Neutrality: No on Reclassification, Yes on Adding Content & App Providers

U.S. President Obama and FCC Chairman Tom Wheeler have put net neutrality back on the front burner with their recently announced support for reclassifying both wireline and wireless broadband as Title II services. Congressional committees are holding hearings this week to consider these and perhaps other proposals. Here is BlackBerry’s perspective on the important issues raised by the various proposals under discussion.

BlackBerry is uniquely positioned to comment on these issues. We are a Canadian company offering service to customers in more than 150 countries. We provide the world’s most secure mobile communications platform. President Obama, Prime Minister Cameron, Chancellor Merkel, NATO, the U.S. Department of Defense, and Members of Congress rely on our high security, end-to-end secure communications network to protect their most sensitive communications. We do business with more than 600 wireless carriers globally and are intimately familiar with wireless broadband networks around the world, including in countries with higher and faster broadband penetration than the United States.

Based on our experience, we offer the following observations:

Defining Net Neutrality. There is widespread disagreement in defining the term “net neutrality.” Most discussion has focused on telecommunications carriers and how they operate and manage their physical networks. Neutrality advocates want to prohibit carriers from creating paid, prioritized “fast lanes,” and from slowing down or “throttling” customers using excessive bandwidth. Neutrality advocates argue that such practices will destroy the free and open internet, while the carriers argue such prohibitions will destroy their incentives to invest in infrastructure to carry more traffic.

BlackBerry believes policymakers should focus on more than just the carriers, who play only one role in the overall broadband internet ecosystem. The carriers are like the railways of the last century, building the tracks to carry traffic to all points throughout the country. But the railway cars travelling on those tracks are, in today’s internet world, controlled not by the carriers but by content and applications providers. Therefore, if we are truly to have an open internet, policymakers should demand openness not just at the traffic/transport layer, but also at the content/applications layer of the ecosystem. Banning carriers from discriminating but allowing content and applications providers to continue doing so will solve nothing.

Therefore, any net neutrality legislation must take a holistic view of the entire playing field, addressing both carrier neutrality and content/application neutrality.

Carrier neutrality. Opponents of reclassification fear that someday the FCC will use its Title II authority to regulate wireless rates, notwithstanding the current Administration’s stated intent to forebear from doing so. Proponents of reclassification argue that broadband has become the key telecommunications utility of the 21st Century, and thus must be regulated under Title II to ensure the broadest possible protections for consumers, such as utility-style non-discrimination and universal service mandates.

Given the unique nature of wireless networks, including the highly competitive wireless business in the United States and the bandwidth limitations inherent in spectrum-dependent transport, reclassifying broadband as a Title II service seems excessive to us. In contemplating how to construct a fair set of rules tailored to the special nature of wireless telecommunications, we suggest instead considering a set of rules already in place that fairly reconciles the needs of carriers and consumers. We refer to the FCC regulations set forth at 47 CFR §27.16, which apply to the C-Block broadband spectrum auctioned in 2008. Those rules, advocated at the time by Google and a coalition of public interest groups, mandate two key non-discrimination principles – no blocking and no locking – which have proven to be a solid model for wireless carrier neutrality regulation.

No blocking. The C Block rules prohibit wireless carriers from restricting customers from using devices and accessing applications or any other lawful content of their choice on the C Block network, except as necessary to manage or protect the network for the benefit of all other users.

No locking. The C block rules also prohibit wireless carriers from disabling features on mobile devices they sell to customers, or rigging those devices to prohibit their use on competitors’ networks.

Verizon won the entire C block in the 2008 auction, and has lived under those rules ever since. The rules have withstood the test of time and have functioned well. There is no evidence the rules have failed to achieve their purpose or have failed to protect the principle of an open wireless internet. With that positive experience to guide us, why not extend the C-Block rules to all mobile broadband spectrum and all carriers? Doing so would achieve the President’s non-discrimination and equal access objectives without creating the risk of future price regulation, and would also satisfy several of the key points set forth in the joint proposals advanced by Chairmen Thune and Upton. Customers would benefit from the ability to access any mobile broadband service, any application, or any other lawful content – on any network, using any device.

Application/Content Neutrality. BlackBerry has been in the midst of a turnaround since I took over as Executive Chairman and CEO in November 2013. During the past 15 months the company has stabilized and introduced a variety of new products as we pivot away from our prior reliance on hardware to become a full-service, device-agnostic provider of highly secure and productive software and services. Our balance sheet is strong and our turnaround is proceeding apace.

Key to BlackBerry’s turnaround has been a strategy of application and content neutrality. For example, we opened up our proprietary BlackBerry Messenger (BBM) service in 2013, making it available for download on our competitors’ devices. Tens of millions of iPhone and Android customers around the world have since downloaded BBM and are enjoying the service free of charge. Last year we introduced our secure BES12 mobile device management software, once again designed to manage not just BlackBerry phones but also available for enterprises and government agencies whose employees use iPhone and Android devices.

Unfortunately, not all content and applications providers have embraced openness and neutrality. Unlike BlackBerry, which allows iPhone users to download and use our BBM service, Apple does not allow BlackBerry or Android users to download Apple’s iMessage messaging service. Netflix, which has forcefully advocated for carrier neutrality, has discriminated against BlackBerry customers by refusing to make its streaming movie service available to them. Many other applications providers similarly offer service only to iPhone and Android users. This dynamic has created a two-tiered wireless broadband ecosystem, in which iPhone and Android users are able to access far more content and applications than customers using devices running other operating systems. These are precisely the sort of discriminatory practices that neutrality advocates have criticized at the carrier level.

Therefore, neutrality must be mandated at the application and content layer if we truly want a free, open and non-discriminatory internet. All wireless broadband customers must have the ability to access any lawful applications and content they choose, and applications/content providers must be prohibited from discriminating based on the customer’s mobile operating system.

This blog is adapted from a letter sent Wednesday, January 21st, 2015, to the Chairman of the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation, John Thune, the Chairman of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce, Fred Upton, and Ranking Committee Members, U.S. Senator Bill Nelson, and U.S. Representative Frank Pallone Jr.

-John Chen

About John Chen

John is a distinguished and proven leader in the technology industry. Prior to joining BlackBerry, he served as Chairman and CEO of Sybase Inc., where he developed and led the company’s re-invention from a mature, slower-growth technology company into a $1.5 billion-plus high-growth innovator. Under his direction, Sybase became the leading provider of enterprise mobility and mobile commerce solutions, achieving 55 consecutive quarters of profitability.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
My moms law firm switched over to iphones and I have no idea how they are doing their corporate email. The IT guys complained BB enterprise had gone to crap over the last couple years so it wasnt like they needed much incentive to change over.
 
Sep 29, 2004
18,665
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People are taking the John Chen neutrality thing way to far.

As for people leaving BB for Apple, enjoy the new keyboards! Wha was the problem with e-mail exactly?
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
81
Damn, I want 10.3 and a new full touch BB10 phone now! To bad the rumors have the next all touch BB phones as being somewhere between a Z10 and Z30.

Can you see if RunKeeper actually works. Last I knew, it relied on Google Maps which was an issue.

I'm running a 10.3.1 leak on z10 now. No stability issues whatsoever, it does not act like a beta as far as I can tell. The inbox tweaks are really helpful, and Blend works really smoothly although I don't have a lot of actual use for it personally since I don't spend a tonne of time at a desk.

BB assistant seems pretty good from the very little I have used it. TBH I preferred the Q10 universal search because it is always there just by typing, which is kind of impossible to achieve on an all-touch.

I haven't tried 10.3.1 on Q10 because I am waiting on a replacement keyboard, having mashed mine.

In the meantime the Z is growing on me, including the auto-suggest on the keyboard, which is sometimes scarily good. I do find auto correct hit and miss, mostly because input accuracy is so much lower compared to a physical KB.
 

compman25

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2006
3,767
2
81
Want a cookie troll?

No, I want to hear your spin on what he said and how what he said wasn't what he really said. Remember, this is a thread about the death of RIM/Blackberry, not fantasy land guesses and dreams. Still believe this "RIMMs only threat is the Windows phone. Apple and Android are way behind RIMM and MSFT OS wise."?
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
81
No, I want to hear your spin on what he said and how what he said wasn't what he really said. Remember, this is a thread about the death of RIM/Blackberry, not fantasy land guesses and dreams. Still believe this "RIMMs only threat is the Windows phone. Apple and Android are way behind RIMM and MSFT OS wise."?
What he said was service providers should not be able to block applications designed to let their customers access their services. I'm not entirely sure that he's right, but it is definitely frustrating to be a paying customer blocked from content not by technology, but by a corporate pissing match. So I'm not sure that he's wrong either.

From that point of view, the 'net neutrality' analogy is reasonably apt, if a little reaching.

Taking the meaning to be "service providers should be forced to actively develop for all platforms" is ridiculous. There is no remotely intelligent argument for that position, so we can dis-regard it as a possibility until Chen goes back on the air to say "no no, I meant to make the stupidest CEO statement of 2015".

Cheers.
 

holden j caufield

Diamond Member
Dec 30, 1999
6,324
10
81
I've had people switch over to google or microsoft taking care of all their email services seems to work flawlessly and for what they said was a very fair price. I think I see more companies moving this way in the future.
 
Sep 29, 2004
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I'm running a 10.3.1 leak on z10 now. No stability issues whatsoever, it does not act like a beta as far as I can tell. The inbox tweaks are really helpful, and Blend works really smoothly although I don't have a lot of actual use for it personally since I don't spend a tonne of time at a desk.

BB assistant seems pretty good from the very little I have used it. TBH I preferred the Q10 universal search because it is always there just by typing, which is kind of impossible to achieve on an all-touch.

I haven't tried 10.3.1 on Q10 because I am waiting on a replacement keyboard, having mashed mine.

In the meantime the Z is growing on me, including the auto-suggest on the keyboard, which is sometimes scarily good. I do find auto correct hit and miss, mostly because input accuracy is so much lower compared to a physical KB.

I hate when the space bar guesses a word that you don't want and replaces the word you typed. Then you don't notice the "correction". You have to swipe up to keep your word if the spacebar has the auto correct word in it. They broke the paradigm of swipe up to use word prediction in the space bar.
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
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I hate when the space bar guesses a word that you don't want and replaces the word you typed. Then you don't notice the "correction". You have to swipe up to keep your word if the spacebar has the auto correct word in it. They broke the paradigm of swipe up to use word prediction in the space bar.

You're right, BUT, if you do pay attention and swipe up it learns your words (swear words, contractions, etc). I find it makes fewer mistakes all the time.

The initial impression of that feature wasn't great but it's improving.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,234
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I hate when the space bar guesses a word that you don't want and replaces the word you typed. Then you don't notice the "correction". You have to swipe up to keep your word if the spacebar has the auto correct word in it. They broke the paradigm of swipe up to use word prediction in the space bar.

You can swipe the suggestion bar down to collapse it. Then you get the in-line pop-up warning you when it's going to "correct" a word. You tap the pop-up with the X and delete the suggestion as soon as you're done typing the word. It learns.

You can swipe the suggestion bar back up again if you want. You can also disable it entirely and reclaim some more vertical space. You don't have to go into Settings either. Just tap+hold the keyboard switcher (probably shows an emoticon or a globe), then toggle-off the predictive keyboard.











 
Last edited:

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
8,644
9
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You can swipe the suggestion bar down to collapse it. Then you get the in-line pop-up warning you when it's going to "correct" a word. You tap the pop-up with the X and delete the suggestion as soon as you're done typing the word. It learns.

You can swipe the suggestion bar back up again if you want. You can also disable it entirely and reclaim some more vertical space. You don't have to go into Settings either. Just tap+hold the keyboard switcher (probably shows an emoticon or a globe), then toggle-off the predictive keyboard.











What model are you on? That keyboard doesn't look at all like my Z30...and it's not that suggestion bar that is the problem, the keyboard starts suggesting words over various letters as you type that you can get by swiping up on them, at the end of typing a word the space bar sometimes decides to change your word to something else when you hit it or you have to swipe up to keep what you really typed, typing fast you might not notice like me and end up sending something with a weird ass word in it...
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,234
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What model are you on? That keyboard doesn't look at all like my Z30...and it's not that suggestion bar that is the problem, the keyboard starts suggesting words over various letters as you type that you can get by swiping up on them, at the end of typing a word the space bar sometimes decides to change your word to something else when you hit it or you have to swipe up to keep what you really typed, typing fast you might not notice like me and end up sending something with a weird ass word in it...

I'm on the better model. :sneaky:

Squeetard's post made me think the discussion had turned to iPhone...
 
Sep 29, 2004
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Loaded it up to check for you - seems to work perfectly.

That's great news. Can't wait for the next all touch. Rumors say that we'll find out in March at the Mobile World Congress what the next devices will be. I think 2 in total. One is rumored to be the 16x9 with hideaway keyboard. Other rumors include a larger version of the Classic (the Classic XL).

10.3.x is nice. No one know what 10.4 is bringing but Chen makes it sound like there will be some big changes (for the better). No details yet.

http://www.mobileworldcongress.com/

BB10 is awesome. It's so sad that people using there phone for nothing more than communicating want iPhones and Android. The general public has no idea what they are missing.
 
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