Riots at Penn State

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darkxshade

Lifer
Mar 31, 2001
13,749
6
81
He's being singled out because he was the single most powerful man on that campus. He isn't the only one that should be held responsible though. Absolutely every single person that had knowledge of this incident and didn't report it to the police need to lose their jobs. Every single one of them. Starting with Paterno and the Athletic Director.


I don't follow college football so I honestly don't know who this guy is. How is he the most powerful man on campus? Because he's the coach? Powerful how? And why is this power important since he can't use this power in regards to the allegations. It's not like he had the power to arrest the guy himself. Anyone who knew had the power to make the call to the police. Isn't there people above him in terms of authority? He got fired so there obviously is, if he brought this to attention of those people and they didn't do anything, shouldn't they be strung up instead? I'm not saying he isn't at fault but I can also sort of understand him thinking he did his due diligence and decided not to call the police assuming his superiors know how to handle it better. He's a coach of a football team, not the school counselor.
 

railer

Golden Member
Apr 15, 2000
1,552
69
91
Where's Paterno's side of this story? It's funny how all the sheep like to jump to conclusions without a shred of proof whatsoever. Oh nevermind, Paterno is a "rapist sympathiser". Innocent until proven guilty??? To hell with that!
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
0
If a high school student went to the principal and reported that he saw a teacher (or assistant principal) with his penis in the ass of a 10 year old, and that principal downplayed it and didn't do everything in their power to address the problem, people would be looking for that principal's head on a platter. The main difference here is that he's a successful football coach. Like so many others in sports, you're looking to give Paterno a free pass.

So why did the high school student go to the principal and didn't take the matter into his own hand?

That's right, he is a student and the principal is suppose to take care of matter like this.

What part of job description of a football coach includes administrative matter like handling molestation/harassment and things like that. JoePa went to the school admin the second day he was told of the incident and let them handle the situation did he not?
 

sao123

Lifer
May 27, 2002
12,650
203
106
He didn't need to confront Sandusky. He needed to make a call to the police. Him being a coach, a good coach or fucking jesus doesn't matter. He failed to protect children. He knew horrible things were being done and he did NOTHING to stop it. He needed to call the police. This and only this. He didn't do that and that's on him.

Univerist yPolicy prevents him from calling the police... let me ask you...

so you call the police... then they fire you for going outside the chain of command... are you really that willing to give up your entire career and life, for something on the speculation of what a graduate student saw and told you?

I dont give a shit about the court of public opinion... when the chief of police clearly states in his public address, that paterno has met his burden to the letter of the law, then he has done his part.
Everyone says they would have gone the extra mile, but what cost are you willing to give up to do it?
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
0
Source AP - Key dates in the Penn State sex abuse

1969 — Jerry Sandusky starts his coaching career at Penn State University as a defensive line coach.

1977 — Jerry Sandusky founds The Second Mile. It begins as a group foster home dedicated to helping troubled boys and grows into a charity dedicated to helping children with absent or dysfunctional families.

January 1983 — Associated Press voters select Penn State as college football's national champion for the 1982 season.

January 1987 — Associated Press voters select Penn State as college football's national champion for the 1986 season.

1994 — Boy known as Victim 7 in the report meets Sandusky through The Second Mile program at about the age of 10.

1994-95 — Boy known as Victim 6 meets Sandusky at a Second Mile picnic at Spring Creek Park when he is 7 or 8 years old.

1995-96 — Boy known as Victim 5, meets Sandusky through The Second Mile when he is 7 or 8, in second or third grade.

1996-97 — Boy known as Victim 4, at the age of 12 or 13, meets Sandusky while he is in his second year participating in The Second Mile program.

1996-98 — Victim 5 is taken to the locker rooms and showers at Penn State by Sandusky when he is 8 to 10 years old.

Jan. 1, 1998 — Victim 4 is listed, along with Sandusky's wife, as a member of Sandusky's family party for the 1998 Outback Bowl.

1998 — Victim 6 is taken into the locker rooms and showers when he is 11 years old. When Victim 6 is dropped off at home, his hair is wet from showering with Sandusky. His mother reports the incident to the university police, who investigate.

Detective Ronald Schreffler testifies that he and State College Police Department Detective Ralph Ralston, with the consent of the mother of Victim 6, eavesdrop on two conversations the mother of Victim 6 has with Sandusky. Sandusky says he has showered with other boys and Victim 6's mother tries to make Sandusky promise never to shower with a boy again but he will not. At the end of the second conversation, after Sandusky is told he cannot see Victim 6 anymore, Schreffler testifies Sandusky says, "I understand. I was wrong. I wish I could get forgiveness. I know I won't get it from you. I wish I were dead."

Jerry Lauro, an investigator with the Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare, testifies he and Schreffler interviewed Sandusky, and that Sandusky admits showering naked with Victim 6, admits to hugging Victim 6 while in the shower and admits that it was wrong.

The case is closed after then-Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar decides there will be no criminal charge.

June 1999 — Sandusky retires from Penn State but still holds emeritus status.

Dec. 28, 1999 — Victim 4 is listed, along with Sandusky's wife, as a member of Sandusky's family party for the 1999 Alamo Bowl.

Summer 2000 — Boy known as Victim 3 meets Sandusky through The Second Mile when he is between seventh and eighth grade.

Fall 2000 — A janitor named James Calhoun observes Sandusky in the showers of the Lasch Football Building with a young boy, known as Victim 8, pinned up against the wall, performing oral sex on the boy. He tells other janitorial staff immediately. Fellow Office of Physical Plant employee Ronald Petrosky cleans the showers at Lasch and sees Sandusky and the boy, who he describes as being between the ages of 11 and 13.

Calhoun tells other physical plant employees what he saw, including Jay Witherite, his immediate supervisor. Witherite tells him to whom he should report the incident. Calhoun was a temporary employee and never makes a report. Victim 8's identity is unknown.

March 1, 2002 — A Penn State graduate assistant enters the locker room at the Lasch Football Building. In the showers, he sees a naked boy, known as Victim 2, whose age he estimates to be 10 years old, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky. The graduate assistant tells his father immediately.

March 2, 2002 — In the morning, the graduate assistant calls Coach Joe Paterno and goes to Paterno's home, where he reports what he has seen.

March 3, 2002 — Paterno calls Tim Curley, Penn State Athletic Director to his home the next day and reports a version of what the grad assistant had said.

March 2002 — Later in the month the graduate assistant is called to a meeting with Curley and Senior Vice President for Finance and Business Gary Schultz. The grad assistant reports what he has seen and Curley and Schultz say they will look into it.

March 27, 2002 (approximate) — The graduate assistant hears from Curley. He is told that Sandusky's locker room keys are taken away and that the incident has been reported to The Second Mile. The graduate assistant is never questioned by university police and no other entity conducts an investigation until the graduate assistant testifies in Grand Jury in December 2010.

2005-2006 — Boy known as Victim 1 says that meets Sandusky through The Second Mile at age 11 or 12.

Spring 2007 — During the 2007 track season, Sandusky begins spending time with Victim 1 weekly, having him stay overnight at his residence in College Township, Pa.

Spring 2008 — Termination of contact with Victim 1 occurs when he is a freshman in a Clinton County high school. After the boy's mother calls the school to report sexual assault, Sandusky is barred from the school district attended by Victim 1 from that day forward and the matter is reported to authorities as mandated by law.

Early 2009 — An investigation by the Pennsylvania attorney general begins when a Clinton County, Pa. teen boy tells authorities that Sandusky has inappropriately touched him several times over a four-year period.

September 2010 — Sandusky retires from day-to-day involvement with The Second Mile, saying he wants to spend more time with family and handle personal matters.

Nov. 5, 2011 — Sandusky is arrested and released on $100,000 bail after being arraigned on 40 criminal counts.

Nov. 7, 2011 — Pennsylvania Attorney General Linda Kelly says Paterno is not a target of the investigation into how the school handled the accusations. But she refuses to say the same for university President Graham Spanier. Curley and Schultz, who have stepped down from their positions, surrender on charges that they failed to alert police to complaints against Sandusky.

Nov. 8, 2011 — Possible ninth victim of Sandusky contacts state police as calls for ouster of Paterno and Spanier grow in state and beyond. Penn State abruptly cancels Paterno's regular weekly press conference.

Nov. 9, 2011 — Paterno and Spanier, one of the nation's longest-serving college presidents, are ousted, effective immediately. Earlier in the day, Paterno announced he'd retire at the end of the season. In the end, he didn't have that choice.

So there was investigation few years before the 2002 incident and the Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar decides there will be no criminal charge. The county all the way up to DA didn't do jack about Sandusky with all these investigation, and you people fault JoePa who did his job and told school admin the second day he knew about the incident?

If this is not a fvcking witch hunt, I don't know what is.
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
Univerist yPolicy prevents him from calling the police... let me ask you...

so you call the police... then they fire you for going outside the chain of command... are you really that willing to give up your entire career and life, for something on the speculation of what a graduate student saw and told you?

I dont give a shit about the court of public opinion... when the chief of police clearly states in his public address, that paterno has met his burden to the letter of the law, then he has done his part.
Everyone says they would have gone the extra mile, but what cost are you willing to give up to do it?

Exactly . This is why a freeman would have done more than a slave.
 

darkxshade

Lifer
Mar 31, 2001
13,749
6
81
Univerist yPolicy prevents him from calling the police... let me ask you...

so you call the police... then they fire you for going outside the chain of command... are you really that willing to give up your entire career and life, for something on the speculation of what a graduate student saw and told you?

I dont give a shit about the court of public opinion... when the chief of police clearly states in his public address, that paterno has met his burden to the letter of the law, then he has done his part.
Everyone says they would have gone the extra mile, but what cost are you willing to give up to do it?


I don't see him getting fired for calling police about child abuse even if he broke policy. That would be bad PR for the school. They're rioting as it is for him being fired over this, the riots for firing him over calling police would have been larger.

The point I do agree on is that there is probably some policy in place. It's drilled into my head as far as my work goes but obviously they don't cover everything.

Suppose I'm a managing director of a large company and one of the people working under me comes to me and tells me he just saw a woman get raped in the bathroom recently.

A. This person should have called the police the moment he saw it. Hell, he should have tried to do something to stop it.
B. Having told me, there is probably some company procedure whereby I call compliance or the front desk security or human resources and defer to their expertise in the matter of handling the situation. I mean it's already happened, unless another woman is in danger right that moment, I don't see why I would have to call the police immediately.

The curveball here is that having done B and nothing happens(no one did anything), and this is where I'm conflicted, I would have then called the police myself which this guy didn't do.

I'm ok if that's what everyone is blasting him for but what I'm a bit confused about is why he's taking the lions share of the blame and attention having done more due diligence than anyone else who knew about it.
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,651
100
91
Univerist yPolicy prevents him from calling the police... let me ask you...

so you call the police... then they fire you for going outside the chain of command... are you really that willing to give up your entire career and life, for something on the speculation of what a graduate student saw and told you?

I dont give a shit about the court of public opinion... when the chief of police clearly states in his public address, that paterno has met his burden to the letter of the law, then he has done his part.
Everyone says they would have gone the extra mile, but what cost are you willing to give up to do it?

Exactly...he met the burden of the law, legally...not morally by any stretch tho, which is the standard that he publicly sets for himself in his efforts to help kids, and is what is expected of ncaa athletic coaches.

Fvck the legal burden imo, it's no excuse for Paterno being a cowardly pedo-protector all these years, which is why his @ss is canned but not in jail.
 
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TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,017
62
91
So there was investigation few years before the 2002 incident and the Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar decides there will be no criminal charge. The county all the way up to DA didn't do jack about Sandusky with all these investigation, and you people fault JoePa who did his job and told school admin the second day he knew about the incident?

If this is not a fvcking witch hunt, I don't know what is.

So you'd be perfectly ok letting sandusky continue to use your team's shower facilities after he admitted to being naked with 11 year olds in there? And then would just simply tell your boss once someone said that they witnessed the very same man raping a 10 year old in the same showers?

There is no witch hunt.
 

sao123

Lifer
May 27, 2002
12,650
203
106
I don't see him getting fired for calling police about child abuse even if he broke policy. That would be bad PR for the school. They're rioting as it is for him being fired over this, the riots for firing him over calling police would have been larger.

The point I do agree on is that there is probably some policy in place. It's drilled into my head as far as my work goes but obviously they don't cover everything.

Suppose I'm a managing director of a large company and one of the people working under me comes to me and tells me he just saw a woman get raped in the bathroom recently.

A. This person should have called the police the moment he saw it. Hell, he should have tried to do something to stop it.
B. Having told me, there is probably some company procedure whereby I call compliance or the front desk security or human resources and defer to their expertise in the matter of handling the situation. I mean it's already happened, unless another woman is in danger right that moment, I don't see why I would have to call the police immediately.

The curveball here is that having done B and nothing happens(no one did anything), and this is where I'm conflicted, I would have then called the police myself which this guy didn't do.

I'm ok if that's what everyone is blasting him for but what I'm a bit confused about is why he's taking the lions share of the blame and attention having done more due diligence than anyone else who knew about it.



there is only 1 reason... CIVIL LAWSUIT.

Sandusky is just a peasant who raped kids... They need a fall guy, who can be sued for billions of dollars to pay for monetary damages...

Enter the Paterno.
 

HendrixFan

Diamond Member
Oct 18, 2001
4,646
0
71
If this is not a fvcking witch hunt, I don't know what is.

Joe Pa is one of MANY people who are going to feel some pain over their coverup. He is just the most prominent given his outwardly vocal views on being morally superior.
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,651
100
91
there is only 1 reason... CIVIL LAWSUIT.

Sandusky is just a peasant who raped kids... They need a fall guy, who can be sued for billions of dollars to pay for monetary damages...

Enter the Paterno.

Paterno's just a fall guy?...he allows one of his former coaches who raped a child in the showers to continue frequenting the facilities, without putting up a fuss...and he is just a fall guy? lol
 

sao123

Lifer
May 27, 2002
12,650
203
106
Exactly...he met the burden of the law, legally...not morally by any stretch tho, which is the standard that he publicly sets for himself in his efforts to help kids, and is what is expected of ncaa athletic coaches.

Fvck the legal burden imo, it's no excuse for Paterno being a cowardly pedo-protector all these years, which is why his @ss is canned but not in jail.


hes not a pedo protector... he was told about it, once. Twice maximum in 12 years... Im sure he had to sit around just thinking of ways to hide & protect this guy, like he is OBL.

Or maybe he just placed it in the background of his mind and forgot about it. he is 84 years old. Its not like he had a daily reminder, hey you are harboring a rapist.

i blame the grad student far more than Paterno... as an Eye witness, and NOT an employee of the university, he is the man who should have called the police. Not Paterno.

you guys all want to blame the figurehead... which is IMO a pointless, fruitless gesture. Anything Paterno could/would have told the cops is heresay (it is a he said, he saw story), and would not invoke much of any response at all. Short of an eye witness or a victim speaking up, there is NOTHING the police, the DA, or ANYONE ELSE could have done. we finally have some action, because a victim finally decided to speak up.

so yes.. Paterno is merely a fall guy. He is not liable for anything.
 
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midwestfisherman

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2003
3,564
8
81
Yeah so JoePa raped the little boy? Or JoePa didn't immediate report to school admin after he was told (not witnessed, told) about the incident?

All you haters are just going out on a witch hunt. There is more report and hate on JoePa than Sandusky who actually committed the molestation. JoePa guided, mentored, thousands of players through his program. He is one of the last coach who actually cared about the player, a totally honest and decent man. But no, because he knew the child molester and he didn't personally go collect the evidence and put the child molester in jail, (remember we still have this innocent until proven guilty thing? and we should not jump to conclusion because some one tells you he saw something?), he got demonized and lost his job. Yeap, JoePa telling people who should be handling the situation isn't enough, he has to be the judge and the jury, plus the investigator for some incident committed by someone who is not on his staff anymore and he didn't personally witness.

Get a clue people. Those Penn State students have much more sense than you all.

Looking the other way is just as bad as committing the act himself. By looking the other way he enabled the molester to continue preying on other innocent boys! Maybe you should get an 'effin clue! This whole thing should have been dealt with back in the 90's!
 

kstu

Golden Member
Feb 23, 2004
1,544
31
91
firing Paterno might be the first and only thing done right the whole goddamn time
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,017
62
91
Well there is... because if there wasn't, I could think of at least 3 other peoples whose names and faces would plastered all over the TV and intarwebs well before his.

And most of the people don't know what the fuck they are talking about. I honestly didn't even know what happened with Sandusky until today but I don't tend to follow many news stories. I still haven't really read anything online about this story, I simply read the grand jury report and have seen people's comments online.
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,651
100
91
hes not a pedo protector... he was told about it, once. Twice maximum in 12 years... Im sure he had to sit around just thinking of ways to hide & protect this guy, like he is OBL.

Or maybe he just placed it in the background of his mind and forgot about it. he is 84 years old. Its not like he had a daily reminder, hey you are harboring a rapist.

i blame the grad student far more than Paterno... as an Eye witness, and NOT an employee of the university, he is the man who should have called the police. Not Paterno.

you guys all want to blame the figurehead... which is IMO a pointless, fruitless gesture.

He's not senile, and wasn't always 84...this was a guy close as 'family'. Paterno is not just a figurehead of the program...perhaps very recently but he has been THE program for decades, and sandusky was a top coach of his.
 

darkxshade

Lifer
Mar 31, 2001
13,749
6
81
Looking the other way is just as bad as committing the act himself.

Did you really just say that? Ok first of all, he can't have looked the other way since he wasn't the one who caught the guy in the act. Secondly, he kicked it up the chain of command.

And as an experiment, I'm going to confess to you right now that I murdered someone yesterday. If you don't call the police on me now, you just became a murderer. Are you a murderer? You best call the cops if you don't wanna be.
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
0
Looking the other way is just as bad as committing the act himself. By looking the other way he enabled the molester to continue preying on other innocent boys! Maybe you should get an 'effin clue! This whole thing should have been dealt with back in the 90's!

What part of going to school admin the second day he was told of the incident don't you understand?

How is that looking the other way? You have no clue if JoePa knew about it in the 90s. Look up my post on timeline a few post up. County DA with an investigation didn't even press charge against Sandusky with all the investigation, JoePa with one conversation with the witness is suppose to take care of the whole thing?
 

Generator

Senior member
Mar 4, 2005
793
0
0
Paterno's head needs to be on a pike. Is bad as this story is, it can get alot worse. I wonder if Paterno leveraged the knowledge of the rapist as a way to keep his job. The man has probably gone senile decades ago.
 
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