Riots at Penn State

[wkabel23]

http://www.timesonline.com/columnis...cle_863d3c82-5e6f-11e0-9ae5-001a4bcf6878.html

The linked article is a good read on the situation. The author wrote the story almost 7 months ago.

And JoePa supporters are pathetic and willfully blind. Hide behind "Oh, he lived up to his legal obligation" or "Oh, the assistant coach wasn't specific in what he reported to JoePa" all you want. It's clear JoePa knew something was F***ed up with Sandusky and kids and he allowed the freak to have access to the campus and football facilities.

Penn St will continue to grow irrelevant in college football. It's a shame they care more about their incompetent coach and "legendary" football program than the serious harm and misconduct involved in this incident.

 

[zinfamous]

Good night to be a cop with a nightstick and mace.

lol. so true.

This whole thing is just disgusting. Every god damn thing about it is vile and putrid.

 

[sao123]

He's not senile, and wasn't always 84...this was a guy close as 'family'. Paterno is not just a figurehead of the program...perhaps very recently but he has been THE program for decades, and sandusky was a top coach of his.

being close as family, doesnt make him know everyone Sandusky gets his jollys off with. Im sure your parents know every time you rub one out right?

common sense... Paterno was told about it once... the DA investigate it and files no charges.

Paterno was told about it a second time, 6 years later...and reports it to the DA, as per univeristy policy.

here we are 6 years later again, and you think that paterno knew Sandusky was actively raping 20 or so kids? are you serious?

 

[HendrixFan]

Anything Paterno could/would have told the cops is heresay (it is a he said, he saw story), and would not invoke much of any response at all. Short of an eye witness or a victim speaking up, there is NOTHING the police, the DA, or ANYONE ELSE could have done. we finally have some action, because a victim finally decided to speak up.

All he had to do was pick up the phone and let the police investigate it from there. The police could have easily interviewed the eyewitness. Bear in mind, this eyewitness went to JoePa with the information before anyone else, and after their talk they BOTH went to the AD. They should have gone to the police at that point.

This occurred in 2002, just a few years after the incident in 1998 where Sandusky confessed to wrongful actions with a minor with the police eavesdropping. It isn't much of a stretch to connect the dots that his early retirement (age 55 at the time, prime age for a coach) was forced because of that situation. Remember, Sandusky was the heir apparent to take over for Paterno. Then this child molestation thing happens in 98, and suddenly he retires at an early age and never coaches anywhere again. After all that, hearing about him raping a young boy in the showers ON CAMPUS leads Paterno to essentially do nothing? Run it up the flagpole. Their response to it was to ban him from the locker rooms! Why ban him if he hadn't done anything?

What Paterno and the rest of the group at Penn State did to cover up this mess was a failure as caretakers of the university, as citizens of a community, and as human beings.

 

[wkabel23]

Did you really just say that? Ok first of all, he can't have looked the other way since he wasn't the one who caught the guy in the act. Secondly, he kicked it up the chain of command.

And as an experiment, I'm going to confess to you right now that I murdered someone yesterday. If you don't call the police on me now, you just became a murderer. Are you a murderer? You best call the cops if you don't wanna be.

SMH. Let's say you allow or facilitate the commission of murders by providing the gun or a quiet place to commit the crime. Just as JoePa allowed and arguably facilitated Sandusky's molestation of kids by granting him access to football facilities and allowing him to run camps on campus with knowledge of his tendencies. You're complicit along with the trigger man. If not legally, undeniably morally.

 

[TheVrolok]

If I am in a position of authority and a man comes to me and says "hey... so I just walked in on Sandusky raping a 10 year old boy in the shower room"

Right, except that's not what joe was told. Read the grand jury indictment.

 

[Miramonti]

being close as family, doesnt make him know everyone Sandusky gets his jollys off with. Im sure your parents know every time you rub one out right?

common sense... Paterno was told about it once... the DA investigate it and files no charges.

Paterno was told about it a second time, 6 years later...and reports it to the DA, as per univeristy policy.

here we are 6 years later again, and you think that paterno knew Sandusky was actively raping 20 or so kids? are you serious?

I have no doubt in my mind he didn't know how many kids sandusky was raping. I also have no doubt in my mind he didn't want to know more even tho he had plenty of reasons to be concerned about his behavior.

And for some reason he felt this wasn't his business to involve himself into and had no problem with sandusky continuing life as normal on the penn state campus, even with him bringing kids around. Wouldn't you say to your staff atleast, 'make sure he doesn't come in the facilities anymore' or 'make sure he doesn't bring boys in with him anymore'....

No one can answer why this didn't become a greater concern to granPa than it was. I believe it was a culture of 'protecting one's own' and don't let 'family business' get into the headlines, including by university officials.

But who the fvck really knows why they would risk so much and not even go to the police. Makes one wonder what else they might have covered up on the campus with a culture like this.

 

[HendrixFan]

Right, except that's not what joe was told. Read the grand jury indictment.

That isn't what he claims he was told. Let's assume JoePa was being perfectly honest during his testimony. Who in a position of authority or as any sort of decent human being, has an person come to you saying he saw someone "doing something of a sexual nature" to a young boy in the showers of your locker room, and you respond by letting your Athletic Director know?

You don't need to know much about society to know that "doing something of a sexual nature" to a young boy in a shower is a crime and should be treated as such. It isn't like Sandusky was seen stealing staplers and they needed to determine the HR route to handle the situation.

 

[sao123]

All he had to do was pick up the phone and let the police investigate it from there. The police could have easily interviewed the eyewitness. Bear in mind, this eyewitness went to JoePa with the information before anyone else, and after their talk they BOTH went to the AD. They should have gone to the police at that point.

This occurred in 2002, just a few years after the incident in 1998 where Sandusky confessed to wrongful actions with a minor with the police eavesdropping. It isn't much of a stretch to connect the dots that his early retirement (age 55 at the time, prime age for a coach) was forced because of that situation. Remember, Sandusky was the heir apparent to take over for Paterno. Then this child molestation thing happens in 98, and suddenly he retires at an early age and never coaches anywhere again. After all that, hearing about him raping a young boy in the showers ON CAMPUS leads Paterno to essentially do nothing? Run it up the flagpole. Their response to it was to ban him from the locker rooms! Why ban him if he hadn't done anything?

What Paterno and the rest of the group at Penn State did to cover up this mess was a failure as caretakers of the university, as citizens of a community, and as human beings.

so you are saying that in 1999, they force him to retire from football, knowing full well he was a child rapist, just to send him to be the full time head of a non-profit youth organization, The Second Mile???

Really? they knew enough to make him quit football because he was a rapist, just to throw him into a building full of fresh new victims.

DOES NOT COMPUTE!!!


there is no coverup, at least on paternos part, he doesnt need it. if the univeristy did, maybe, but that falls on someone else... not joe.

 

[TallBill]

so you are saying that in 1999, they force him to retire from football, knowing full well he was a child rapist, just to send him to be the full time head of a non-profit youth organization, The Second Mile???

Really? they knew enough to make him quit football because he was a rapist, just to throw him into a building full of fresh new victims.

DOES NOT COMPUTE!!!

That's exactly the fucking point.

 

[Miramonti]

so you are saying that in 1999, they force him to retire from football, knowing full well he was a child rapist, just to send him to be the full time head of a non-profit youth organization, The Second Mile???

Really? they knew enough to make him quit football because he was a rapist, just to throw him into a building full of fresh new victims.

DOES NOT COMPUTE!!!

So...a grad student tells you he saw your former coach raping a child in the showers, and you know he runs a charity for kids and you have no problem him not being held accountable? What's more important than the next game anyways, right?...

 

[cronos]

so you are saying that in 1999, they force him to retire from football, knowing full well he was a child rapist, just to send him to be the full time head of a non-profit youth organization, The Second Mile???

Really? they knew enough to make him quit football because he was a rapist, just to throw him into a building full of fresh new victims.

DOES NOT COMPUTE!!!

I guess now you're starting to understand why people are furious.

 

[HendrixFan]

so you are saying that in 1999, they force him to retire from football, knowing full well he was a child rapist, just to send him to be the full time head of a non-profit youth organization, The Second Mile???

Really? they knew enough to make him quit football because he was a rapist, just to throw him into a building full of fresh new victims.

DOES NOT COMPUTE!!!

The foundation was set up in the 70s.

It was known that he was being investigated for molestation in 98, and it comes as no surprise that he was forced into retirement as a result. If they had any lingering doubt as to the validity of the accusations (aside from his admission at the time that he regretted it and wished he could die), upon hearing in 2002 that he was "doing something of a sexual nature" to a boy in the showers should have been the cutoff point.

And it was, because they banned him from bringing boys into the facilities. Now why would they do that if they didn't think he was doing anything wrong? Doesn't make sense. Alot of what happened over the years doesn't make sense unless you look at it from the view that they knew what was going on (in a general sense) and tried to hide it/cover it up so as to not stain the reputation of the university.

 

[sao123]

So...a grad student tells you he saw your former coach raping a child in the showers, and you know he runs a charity for kids and you have no problem him not being held accountable? What's more important than the next game anyways, right?...

Look. I know my next door neighbor is a drug dealer. I've reported it to the police. the police know he is a dealer also. Without firsthand evidence, nothing can be done. I can call the police every day, and it doesnt matter. Actually it does, because if I call them too often, it becomes harrassment on my part directed toward my neightbor.


If he did not see it firsthand, its only speculation. Regardless, he followed policy, and reported it. At that point, its no longer in his hands. end of his responsibility. Period. The only one who could have done anything is 1) the victim, 2) the eye witness.
Neither of which is Joe Paterno. There is NO followup responsibility for him. None whatsoever.

The foundation was set up in the 70s.

It was known that he was being investigated for molestation in 98, and it comes as no surprise that he was forced into retirement as a result. If they had any lingering doubt as to the validity of the accusations (aside from his admission at the time that he regretted it and wished he could die), upon hearing in 2002 that he was "doing something of a sexual nature" to a boy in the showers should have been the cutoff point.

I agree...however this is not Joes decision to make. Authority to use the facilities for non-employees can only come from higher than Joe. Revokation of the same, also must come from above. Joe reported it to those whom would be responsible for that decision. they didnt make it, how is that Joes fault?


And it was, because they banned him from bringing boys into the facilities. Now why would they do that if they didn't think he was doing anything wrong?

Suspicion leading to situational awareness & incident prevention action, does not equal knowledge of guilt.

Doesn't make sense. Alot of what happened over the years doesn't make sense unless you look at it from the view that they knew what was going on (in a general sense) and tried to hide it/cover it up so as to not stain the reputation of the university.

 

[LTC8K6]

Joe Paterno could have had Sandusky removed from any contact with children. Joe could have gotten Sandusky removed from Penn State completely. Joe's word about Sandusky in a report would carry weight. Joe had a lot of power.

Whistle blowers are protected.

There are laws as well about reporting child abuse, and it's not clear if Paterno's report fully complied.

The investigation is far from over.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...ann/11/09/joe.paterno/index.html?xid=si_ncaaf

 

[Miramonti]

Look. I know my next door neighbor is a drug dealer. I've reported it to the police. the police know he is a dealer also. Without firsthand evidence, nothing can be done. I can call the police every day, and it doesnt matter. Actually it does, because if I call them too often, it becomes harrassment on my part directed toward my neightbor.


If he did not see it firsthand, its only speculation. Regardless, he followed policy, and reported it. At that point, its no longer in his hands. end of his responsibility. Period. The only one who could have done anything is 1) the victim, 2) the eye witness.
Neither of which is Joe Paterno. There is NO followup responsibility for him. None whatsoever.

I realize you believe your analogies are relevant, but imo I'd classify them as irrelevant and ignorant...thus rather pointless to debate. lol

 

[sao123]

I guess now you're starting to understand why people are furious.

Perhaps its because people agressively attempting to fuck over someone who had a line of how far he would not stick his neck out to stop something, but not the competant people who share largely more responsibility than the public face they want to crucify.

FACT:
1)The grad student who was an eyewitness to the rape in question, who did not also report it to the police, is NOT currently fired by the university. he is still on the coaching staff.

2)The 3 janitors who also saw a rape take place, and never reported it even to their supervisors, are still employed by the university.

3)The 2 guys charged with Perjury in this case, are still employed by the university, and are only on administrative leave, while the case plays out. joe has been legally cleared of all wrong doing, and yet he is fired?

4)You claim, Joe was close enough to this guy he had to realize what was going on... What about Sandusky's wife? Was she close enough to know about it? Why didnt she report it? lets crucify her for inaction too...

5)You want Joe fired for not removing the office for Mr Sandusky, when A) its not his decision, B)would not have prevented the rapes, as they would have just occurred elsewhere, and C)you cant explain why they would secretly fire Sandusky, just to let him go to a place where he would have more contact with victims, rather than less.


all of this definately proves my point, that Joe is merely a Sacrifical Lamb for the forthcoming Civil Suit, and his firing accomplishes zip, zero, nothing.

and yes... thats why people are furious and rioting.

 

[LTC8K6]

The grad student is now a protected witness. Penn State can take no action against McQueary. This is likely the case with the other witnesses as well.

 

[HendrixFan]

I agree...however this is not Joes decision to make. Authority to use the facilities for non-employees can only come from higher than Joe. Revokation of the same, also must come from above. Joe reported it to those whom would be responsible for that decision. they didnt make it, how is that Joes fault?

Joe's fault was not going to the police (McQuery too). Are you telling me that if a subordinate came to you at work looking for direction and told you they saw another employee "doing something of a sexual nature" to a 10 year old boy at your workplace, you wouldn't report it to the police? It may not have been illegal for JoePa to keep it in house (here in Texas it would be illegal), but it fails any test of human decency.

Suspicion leading to situational awareness & incident prevention action, does not equal knowledge of guilt.

Wow.

Wow.

You suspect someone is raping little boys, because you were told they were, and you try to prevent it from happening at your location but don't find it necessary to notify police? Really? They don't have to assign guilt or investigate it, that is what the authorities are for.

 

[LTC8K6]

Sandusky's wife attempted to contact victim #7 shortly before #7's grand jury testimony...

 

[Miramonti]

I think this is going to be months and not days for the authorities to sort all this out, particularly with new info coming in and new victims coming forward.

 

[LTC8K6]

A person familiar with his account said McQueary did not spare the details when he met with Paterno. Nor did he when he met with the university’s athletic director and another senior administrator, the man in charge of Penn State’s campus police

If this account is accurate, Paterno is a liar...and unfit for society...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/10/s...ges-scandal.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&ref=sports

 

[HendrixFan]

all of this definately proves my point, that Joe is merely a Sacrifical Lamb for the forthcoming Civil Suit, and his firing accomplishes zip, zero, nothing.

There are likely to be criminal charges against many of the people employed by Penn State. At this point it is best to not press charges against any of them and see who turns on who, and what information they can get. JoePa the witness serves far more legal purpose, criminal and civil, than JoePa the defendant. The DA has been careful to note that JoePa and McQueary are not targets "at this time." You need witnesses that you can compel to testify. Making them defendants makes their testimony inaccessible.

His firing is the first of many steps being taken by Penn State to shield themselves from the actions of their employees, and the crimes committed on their property. It may not absolve them of much liability, but it goes a long way into restoring the good name they strive for. JoePa has forever tarnished their reputation.

 

[HendrixFan]

If this account is accurate, Paterno is a liar...and unfit for society...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/10/s...ges-scandal.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&ref=sports

Even if he did come to Paterno saying Sandusky was "doing something of a sexual nature" to a 10 year old boy in the locker room showers, why the hell wouldn't JoePa or anyone else think to maybe inquire a little bit further? Using that as a defense is stunningly pathetic.

I mean, how do you hear that and simply say "Whoa, say no more. We won't let him bring little boys into the shower anymore. Problem solved."

 

[cronos]

all of this definately proves my point, that Joe is merely a Sacrifical Lamb for the forthcoming Civil Suit, and his firing accomplishes zip, zero, nothing.

You may not be far off with that statement. Go to ESPN and watch Chris Fowler's comment on JoePa's firing. Basically he said that the BOT made a business decision instead of a moral decision. It doesn't mean that it's not the right decision though, considering the situation. It definitely accomplishes something, help them start clean the PennState's name.

Btw your facts are inaccurate and all over the place. Are you sure you've been following this closely and read the grand jury indictment?

and yes... thats why people are furious and rioting.

You know that's not what I meant. I obviously was talking about why people are furious at the University, including JoePa. For what he did and didn't do.

People who are rioting are just in denial.