Riots at Penn State

[TallBill]

A little imagination to put things in perspective. You are a local operations manager of a fairly large company. You have a management employee who works directly under you and has for a long time. He is investigated for and admitted to improper behavior involving a minor in the showering facilities in the building that you run your operations in. He retires shortly thereafter (and we'll pretend that you don't know why).

Would you ever, in your right mind, allow this man to enter your showering facilities again? What about with a child? Now, you're in charge of operations so its not necessarily your call on who can and can't enter the building, but you are in charge so you are aware of what's going on. Wouldn't you do anything and everything possible to at least make sure that this didn't happen in your place of business?

Now say, somehow this guy has been entering your building, using your showering facilities, and bringing children with him. An employee of yours comes to you and says that he witnessed the retiree raping an apparently 10 year old boy in the showers, do you simply make a phone call to your boss and write a report?

Anyone defending Paterno is delusional. He may be a football hero of yours, and that's fine. His legacy will last regardless of what people think of him. But the university made the correct decision tonight.

 

[sao123]

There are likely to be criminal charges against many of the people employed by Penn State. At this point it is best to not press charges against any of them and see who turns on who, and what information they can get. JoePa the witness serves far more legal purpose, criminal and civil, than JoePa the defendant. The DA has been careful to note that JoePa and McQueary are not targets "at this time." You need witnesses that you can compel to testify. Making them defendants makes their testimony inaccessible.

His firing is the first of many steps being taken by Penn State to shield themselves from the actions of their employees, and the crimes committed on their property. It may not absolve them of much liability, but it goes a long way into restoring the good name they strive for. JoePa has forever tarnished their reputation.

There will be no new charges...The grand jury & AG cleared them of all legal wrongdoing, except for the two perjurers.

 

[LTC8K6]

There will be no new charges...The grand jury & AG cleared them of all legal wrongdoing, except for the two perjurers.

We don't know what new victims may come forward and what info they may have. There are certainly a lot more than what we've heard about, the way this monster was carrying on.

We also don't know what new info may come to light. Paterno may have lied to the GJ. Others may have as well.

 

[HendrixFan]

There will be no new charges...The grand jury & AG cleared them of all legal wrongdoing, except for the two perjurers.

The Grand Jury was just for the molestation, not any illegality for the apparent cover up.

They have just started looking into the cover up. Penn State just formed an internal investigative committee to "undertake a full and complete investigation of the circumstances that gave rise to the Grand Jury Report." Since Sandusky was transporting minors across state lines for the Bowl Games, the FBI can get involved.

 

[LTC8K6]

Besides, what kind of adult hears about a 10 year old boy being raped and does nothing but pass the word? What did he do, look up the minimum requirement and comply?

Forget about the damn legal requirements. What about the child? How can you know this and sleep at night? How can you not try to rescue the child?

 

[HendrixFan]

Forget about the damn legal requirements. What about the child? How can you know this and sleep at night? How can you not try to rescue the child?

Absolutely. McQuery was a former football player and a big guy. I can't picture him being afraid to take on a frail old man in defense of the poor child.

 

[rchiu]

http://www.timesonline.com/columnis...cle_863d3c82-5e6f-11e0-9ae5-001a4bcf6878.html

The linked article is a good read on the situation. The author wrote the story almost 7 months ago.

And JoePa supporters are pathetic and willfully blind. Hide behind "Oh, he lived up to his legal obligation" or "Oh, the assistant coach wasn't specific in what he reported to JoePa" all you want. It's clear JoePa knew something was F***ed up with Sandusky and kids and he allowed the freak to have access to the campus and football facilities.

Penn St will continue to grow irrelevant in college football. It's a shame they care more about their incompetent coach and "legendary" football program than the serious harm and misconduct involved in this incident.

WTF? It is Athletic Director and the School Administrator who decides who access the campus and the facility. Last time I checked, JoePa isn't neither. And you haters are the ones ignoring facts. Sandusky was investigated by the County in 1998 and the DA didn't file a charge. If the county with all the investigation couldn't put a case forward, how the hell is JoePa suppose to make a judgement that Sandusky was guilty?

You have fvcking no clue. Football coaches come and goes. JoePa is respected not because he was a successful coach, but an outstanding person. Anyone actually met him personally (I did a couple of time during my MBA at PSU) knows he is a stand up person with honesty and integrity. Penn State can lost every games for the next 3 years for all I care, but it's not right for an honest person to be treated like shit by the media, by people like you, by the fvcking PSU board of trustee looking for scape goat.

 

[HendrixFan]

Anyone actually met him personally (I did a couple of time during my MBA at PSU) knows he is a stand up person with honesty and integrity. Penn State can lost every games for the next 3 years for all I care, but it's not right for an honest person to be treated like shit by the media, by people like you, by the fvcking PSU board of trustee looking for scape goat.

Too bad you are starstruck and sticking up for the wrong side. Paterno is a scumbag of the worst kind. I'm sure as the information gets surfaced as to the extent of the coverup by the internal investigation you will just deny everything as part of a smear campaign.

Integrity means not enabling a child molester. JoePa had amazing pull at Penn State and in State College. When he was approached by his superiors about retiring in 2004 he told them no. Anyone who follows college football even slightly knows the power and influence he not just had, but exerted. Any media asking the wrong questions during pressers would get no answer and the boot.

JoePa had all the pull in the world to see the Sandusky thing through to the end. When you hear someone was "doing something of a sexual nature" to a 10 year old boy and do nothing that is nothonesty or integrity. When he heard that he should have made sure it went to the police, and with his pull it certainly would have if he wished it so. Of course, with his pull, if he wished it to go away it would have. And it did. And that is what is telling about this situation.

JoePa is the worst kind of scumbag there is. At least someone like Barry Switzer never hid who he was. JoePa is that dirty snake that slinks around and pretends he is better than everyone else, but deep down makes the worst of men look like saints.

 

[zinfamous]

Univerist yPolicy prevents him from calling the police... let me ask you...

so you call the police... then they fire you for going outside the chain of command... are you really that willing to give up your entire career and life, for something on the speculation of what a graduate student saw and told you?

first point:

doesn't matter. You call the police. kids being raped--YOU CALL THE POLICE.

that's it.

second point:

fire him? Joe Paterno? are you serious? I'm not sure you are aware of the Paterno culture at Penn State, but that is completely impossible. It is not even at issue here. Paterno doing what was right, after going through the chain of command, as he supposedly did--and getting the real authorities involved--no way in fuck he would be fired.

the president? probably. AD? probably. Paterno would have lived through that situation smoothly, simply adding to the legend that he had created.

 

[rchiu]

Too bad you are starstruck and sticking up for the wrong side. Paterno is a scumbag of the worst kind. I'm sure as the information gets surfaced as to the extent of the coverup by the internal investigation you will just deny everything as part of a smear campaign.

Integrity means not enabling a child molester. JoePa had amazing pull at Penn State and in State College. When he was approached by his superiors about retiring in 2004 he told them no. Anyone who follows college football even slightly knows the power and influence he not just had, but exerted. Any media asking the wrong questions during pressers would get no answer and the boot.

JoePa had all the pull in the world to see the Sandusky thing through to the end. When you hear someone was "doing something of a sexual nature" to a 10 year old boy and do nothing that is nothonesty or integrity. When he heard that he should have made sure it went to the police, and with his pull it certainly would have if he wished it so. Of course, with his pull, if he wished it to go away it would have. And it did. And that is what is telling about this situation.

JoePa is the worst kind of scumbag there is. At least someone like Barry Switzer never hid who he was. JoePa is that dirty snake that slinks around and pretends he is better than everyone else, but deep down makes the worst of men look like saints.

Are you stupid or purposely ignoring the fact that JoePa went to school admin the very next day he was told of the incident? How is that for doing nothing. He didn't let the thing slide, he didn't let the thing sit there for month, he took it to the people with the authority to investigate and hand down decision. Why would he want to use his pull to see the Sandusky thing to the end? Are you saying he's the judge and jury and can decide on Sandusky's guilt by himself and see that Sandusky is in jail?

Starstruck with JoePa? he is one of the most down to earth person there is, wtf are you talking about. it's sad these days that any punk in front of computer with the ability to google get to determine if someone is a scumbag or not without really knowing the person.

 

[zinfamous]

Are you stupid or purposely ignoring the fact that JoePa went to school admin the very next day he was told of the incident? How is that for doing nothing. He didn't let the thing slide, he didn't let the thing sit there for month, he took it to the people with the authority to investigate and hand down decision. Why would he want to use his pull to see the Sandusky thing to the end? Are you saying he's the judge and jury and can decide on Sandusky's guilt by himself and see that Sandusky is in jail?

Starstruck with JoePa? he is one of the most down to earth person there is, wtf are you talking about. it's sad these days that any punk in front of computer with the ability to google get to determine if someone is a scumbag or not without really knowing the person.

he went to the people with power on the books--but again, anyone who knows anything about Penn State and State College-knows that Paterno controlled anything he wanted.

but seriously--what kind of argument is that? "He went to the person in power the next day and told them."

OK...so he told them, the rapists continues to hang out in their facilities with little boys for the next several years, and well, it's cool b/c JoePa did his job and told "the people in power."

right....


OK.

.................WOW.

 

[rchiu]

he went to the people with power on the books--but again, anyone who knows anything about Penn State and State College-knows that Paterno controlled anything he wanted.

but seriously--what kind of argument is that? "He went to the person in power the next day and told them."

OK...so he told them, the rapists continues to hang out in their facilities with little boys for the next several years, and well, it's cool b/c JoePa did his job and told "the people in power."

right....


OK.

.................WOW.

Are you really dumb or really don't understand the difference between "people in power" and "people with job description to handle this kind of thing". Just because JoePa has the pull and the influence, it doesn't mean that he should or did influence the investigation by school/athletic administrators to deal with these type to things.

People in normal office go to HR for sexual harassment type of things, they don't deal with it themselves, especially when there maybe conflict of interest type of thing like JoePa and Sandusky having long term working relationship. You let the people with the job description and the mandate to deal with it. Things like child molestation, sexual harassment are serious charge with huge privacy implication. You without the professional experience and the mandate to deal with the situation can easily mess up the investigation, get counter sued.

Something people with basic job experience would understand, apparently that's too much to ask in a forum like here.

 

[Mr. Lennon]

Paterno was fired. Now, students are rioting in the street in support of Paterno. So let me get this straight, this guy protected a child rapist and they think he is their hero? These young, drunk rioters have no sense or morality.

As I said in another thread...Penn State people are a cult. Coach brings in $70 million dollars a year and is viewed as the pope over there. Penn State wants to protect their image as much as the Catholics did, that's why no one said anything.

Anyone who supports this man is a disgusting piece of shit.

 

[Vic Vega]

I'm glad he was fired. Maybe we can jail him too.

 

[FallenHero]

I'm glad he was fired. Maybe we can jail him too.

One can hope, but I somehow doubt it unless he conspired to cover it up...and that would be a tough charge.

Some in this thread don't understand the LEGAL obligations vs. the MORAL obligations. Joe may have met his full legal and policy obligations by reporting it...but after seeing NOTHING done, both Joe and the Grad Asst. failed in their moral obligations to go to law enforcement and make sure something (ie, full on investigation) happened, policies be damned.

The fact that he ignored it for YEARS is damning. May he rot in hell for his failures.

 

[Wyndru]

Ah, to be young and dumb again.

 

[LTC8K6]

Paterno is an adult. McQueary is an adult. Both knew, or had been told, that a 10 year old boy had recently been raped on campus, and they knew who the rapist was.

Their only actions after that should have been towards the immediate protection and rescue of the child, and the immediate apprehension of the rapist.

No one would have faulted either for an immediate call to police and to Child services, regardless of any rules they were "supposed" to follow.

They would have been heroes.

Had they tried and failed, they would still be heroes. Instead, they decided send it up the line, and then go for a walk and pretend it didn't happen.

Instead, they chose to pass the buck to people who covered up a terrible crime. They chose to look the other way, in one case, literally.

Paterno is a criminal, who has so far gotten away with his crime due to the technicality of having barely complied with his legal requirements.

McQueary is a criminal as well, but at least he is now going to do the right thing and testify, and that's the only reason he gets any slack at all. He's a creep of the highest order for witnessing a rape and walking away.

Paterno utterly failed in his duty as a human being.

 

[edro]

Starstruck with JoePa? he is one of the most down to earth person there is, wtf are you talking about. it's sad these days that any punk in front of computer with the ability to google get to determine if someone is a scumbag or not without really knowing the person.

rchiu = Victim #1?

March 1, 2002 — A Penn State graduate assistant enters the locker room at the Lasch Football Building. In the showers, he sees a naked boy, known as Victim 2, whose age he estimates to be 10 years old, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky. The graduate assistant tells his father immediately.

March 2, 2002 — In the morning, the graduate assistant calls Coach Joe Paterno and goes to Paterno's home, where he reports what he has seen.

March 3, 2002 — Paterno calls Tim Curley, Penn State Athletic Director to his home the next day and reports a version of what the grad assistant had said.

March 2002 — Later in the month the graduate assistant is called to a meeting with Curley and Senior Vice President for Finance and Business Gary Schultz. The grad assistant reports what he has seen and Curley and Schultz say they will look into it.

March 27, 2002 (approximate) — The graduate assistant hears from Curley. He is told that Sandusky's locker room keys are taken away and that the incident has been reported to The Second Mile. The graduate assistant is never questioned by university police and no other entity conducts an investigation until the graduate assistant testifies in Grand Jury in December 2010.

JoPa heard first hand testimony from THE WITNESS of the sexual assault. Not touching, not showering, but PENETRATION.
Within the same month, the outcome was that Sandusky's facility keys were taken away.

JoPa failed and is now paying for it. JoPa (and others) is personally responsible for all victims after March 2002.

His legacy is completely shot. 10 years from now, no one will remember his good; they will remember his bad.

 

[LTC8K6]

This is equivalent to a man seeing a child get hit by a car, then walking home to tell his dad, who has to tell him to report the incident. Then going to report the incident to his boss, who also just reports it.

So now at least three adults know that a child has been hit by a car, and a day has gone by, and no one has called authorities, or tried to help in any way.

All the while a small child is laying injured in the street.

But at least they did the minimum...so they won't suffer...

 

[wkabel23]

WTF? It is Athletic Director and the School Administrator who decides who access the campus and the facility. Last time I checked, JoePa isn't neither. And you haters are the ones ignoring facts. Sandusky was investigated by the County in 1998 and the DA didn't file a charge. If the county with all the investigation couldn't put a case forward, how the hell is JoePa suppose to make a judgement that Sandusky was guilty?

You have fvcking no clue. Football coaches come and goes. JoePa is respected not because he was a successful coach, but an outstanding person. Anyone actually met him personally (I did a couple of time during my MBA at PSU) knows he is a stand up person with honesty and integrity. Penn State can lost every games for the next 3 years for all I care, but it's not right for an honest person to be treated like shit by the media, by people like you, by the fvcking PSU board of trustee looking for scape goat.

So JoePa has no sway over who gets access to those facilities? The man who's bigger than the University really doesn't have that kind of influence? This "outstanding person" simply left the decision regarding the molestation of a kid to a couple of bureaucrats? You can't have it both ways. JoePa was either an outdated figurehead for the school or he's the man bigger than the President of PSU, this moral icon, or however else his fervent followers describe him.

You're in complete denial buddy.

 

[bignateyk]

1) I'm not sure why people always call these "riots". They happen all the time at Penn State over stupid shit (Winning big games, Bin Laden getting killed, etc...).

2) They aren't "rioting" to support JoePa. They are "rioting" because they are young, dumb, drunk, and looking to be raucas.

3) 99% of the people there are just there because they knew it was going to be happening and they wanted to go see it

 

[kstu]

Why would he want to use his pull to see the Sandusky thing to the end?

Really? Maybe because children were being raped, but that's probably not something you need to see through to the end, just pass the buck and wash your hands of the whole situation, right?

 

[LTC8K6]

http://www.nesn.com/2011/11/jerry-s...ung-boys-to-rich-donors-says-mark-madden.html

This is why you can't just report it and move on and claim you did your job. When there are few consequences, the behavior often escalates...

"I can give you a rumor and I can give you something I think might happen," Madden told John Dennis and Gerry Callahan. "I hear there's a rumor that there will be a more shocking development from the Second Mile Foundation -- and hold on to your stomachs, boys, this is gross, I will use the only language I can -- that Jerry Sandusky and Second Mile were pimping out young boys to rich donors. That was being investigated by two prominent columnists even as I speak."

Madden also spoke more definitively to the cover-up efforts at the school and beyond that he expects will be made public soon.

"The other thing I think that may eventually become uncovered, and I talked about this in my original article back in April, is that I think they'll find out that Jerry Sandusky was told that he had to retire in exchange for a cover-up," Madden said. "If you look at the timeline, that makes perfect sense, doesn't it?

"My opinion is when Sandusky quit, everybody knew -- not just at Penn State," Madden added. "I think it was a very poorly kept secret about college football in general, and that is why he never coached in college football again and retired at the relatively young age of 55. [That's] young for a coach, certainly."

 

[darkewaffle]

Meh, sucks but same shit different day. Few weeks ago that kid was hit by a car in China and sat in the street for however long before anyone helped. Every day in urban America the 'no snitchin' state of mind results in crimes committed in broad daylight having no witnesses. If a person who is bleeding to death says "I don't want your help" and you touch them, you're legally at risk even if you save their life.

We live in a pretty fucked up place. People want to cover their ass, and it's hard to blame them sometimes.

To me, I can't really blame Paterno for his actions. Everyone could have done better, but put yourself in his shoes. Some college kid you probably hardly know tells you one of your oldest friends and colleagues (presuming here) was seen raping a child. How do you react? If it's me, I think "There's no way. That's ridiculous. I've known him for X years and he would never do such a thing." But he's convinced he saw what he saw and clearly upset, so what do you do? Going straight to the police is going to create a mass of negative press for everyone involved and be a nightmare, and the only evidence that you (Paterno) have to go on is the word of some kid. I don't think he acted unreasonably.

Everyone's making this out to be so black and white, but unless you're one of the guys who allegedly saw it happening, I don't think there's any easy answer. If you see it going down, I think you're absolutely obligated to step in. But when all Paterno has to go on is essentially a "he said she said", there's only so much stock you can put in that.

 

[AMDZen]

Football program should get the deathpenalty for at least 2-3 years a la SMU. Everyone involved should be fired immediately, Sandusky and others should be hung in town square.