Riots expected after acquittal: Michael Brown

[CZroe]

Radio news keeps playing a "question from Michael Brown's mother" at every commercial break where she says something like "His conscience is clear? How could your conscious be clear after killing somebody even if it was an accidental death?!"

Someone should take their kid gloves off and tell her that there is a difference between a justified shooting and an "accidental" shooting. He should have no shame or guilt for defending himself.

I want to make sure people know, the vast majority of the protestors are engaging in non violent civil disobedience. Only a tiny fraction, who likely have little to do with the protestors are causing damage and violence.

Doesn't make them right and doesn't mean that it isn't emboldening and fanning the flames of the ones who are violent. The facts are out there. Michael Brown was the only bad guy. There is no excuse for their ignorance. They DO bear some of the blame.

 

[DCal430]

Wow, WTF - where did that come from? DCal is a known troll, and I will call him out as such.

I know not everyone at the riots are there to cause chaos and violence, 99.9% of them are out there believing they can make a change. Some are probably misguided in thinking Wilson targeted Brown because he's, well, brown but the simple fact is race wasn't involved in this shooting.

I am not a troll, you use ad hominem attacks on people who don't agree with you. Troll move.

 

[moonbogg]

Radio news keeps playing a "question from Michael Brown's mother" at every commercial break where she says something like "No remorse? How could you feel no remorse even in an accidental shooting?!"

Someone should take their kid gloves off and tell her that there is a difference between a justified shooting and an "accidental" shooting. He should have no shame or guilt for defending himself.



Doesn't make them right and doesn't mean that it isn't emboldening and fanning the flames of the ones who are violent. The facts are out there. Michael Brown was the only bad guy. There is no excuse for their ignorance. They DO bear some of the blame.

Why? Because they are wrong and ignorant? Why does that equal blame? Why can't they just be wrong and ignorant?

 

[CZroe]

Why? Because they are wrong and ignorant? Why does that equal blame? Why can't they just be wrong and ignorant?

As I said: Because the facts are out there but they refuse to learn them and, thus, are WILLFULLY ignorant. I have nothing but disgust for people who take action while being WILLFULLY ignorant. No excuses. I wouldn't hire a person who expresses such a lack of critical thinking and I wouldn't tolerate them as friends. It's irresponsible and it will get people hurt. The blood may not be directly on their hands, but they do bear some responsibility just like the race baiters.

 

[zerocool84]

There are lots not doing the shit you see on CNN, you're not seeing it because CNN and the other media outlets only show the negative side of shit.

People rioting and tearing shit up = exciting! lots of news coverage
people peacefully protesting = meh, not interesting at all. nobody cares.


It only takes 1 person in a crowd to fuck it up for everyone in the crowd. But in all honesty, even if CNN was showing the other side here, you wouldn't care and would ignore it.

They sure were showing all the non-violent protests all over the news last night.

 

[moonbogg]

As I said: Because the facts are out there but they refuse to learn them and, thus, are WILLFULLY ignorant. I have nothing but disgust for people who take action while being WILLFULLY ignorant. No excuses. I wouldn't hire a person who expresses such a lack of critical thinking and I wouldn't tolerate them as friends. It's irresponsible and it will get people hurt. The blood may not be directly on their hands, but they do bear some responsibility just like the race baiters.

You must believe in humans having souls, right? Do you think that's the case? You must. Otherwise you would be a little more intelligent with your outlook.
Try this instead. People are animals, just like bears and sharks and everything else. Science tells you this is the case, so don't go being willfully ignorant on me, please.
If a shark attacks a person, do you "blame" the shark? If a bear attacks a person, do you "blame" the bear? Only an idiot would. They were just being the creature they are.
The people you claim who are willfully ignorant are only doing what people do who find themselves in their particular culture and situation. Have some fucking compassion. Its not their fault. Yes, they are wrong and ignorant, but you would be too in their shoes, unless you think you are somehow superior in a fundamental way.

 

[purbeast0]

i watched cnn for like 10 minutes yesterday, and there was a part where anderson cooper (i think that is his name) was interviewing 2 black guys, and 1 of them was a pastor, and he flat out said that the people looting and rioting shouldn't be blamed for their actions. i was like WTF? what kind of message is he, as a pastor, trying to send?

 

[dougp]

Just because the truth isn't obvious, doesn't mean it isn't still the truth. If you actually think about this you will notice it. These people aren't responsible for their predicament, but a solution is still needed. Understanding that they aren't at fault is what leads to a gentler attitude toward them. It stops the blame and lets us focus on solution. It changes the tone of the conversation. It makes it possible for me to be sympathetic toward them when you are unable to do so because you see them as being at fault. You are stuck. I am not stuck.

Of course they're at fault, they can resolve their situation, they just choose not to. Every day, minorities are working to better themselves and their situations - you know, like those shop owners who were vandalized and robbed. A vocal minority (within a minority) that demand to be handed everything on a silver platter are what's impeding progress. Their kids learn from them, and then it spreads.

 

[moonbogg]

i watched cnn for like 10 minutes yesterday, and there was a part where anderson cooper (i think that is his name) was interviewing 2 black guys, and 1 of them was a pastor, and he flat out said that the people looting and rioting shouldn't be blamed for their actions. i was like WTF? what kind of message is he, as a pastor, trying to send?

There are two reasons to say what he did. If he meant its really the fault of white people, then he's wrong. If he meant its no one's fault, then he's right.

 

[purbeast0]

There are two reasons to say what he did. If he meant its really the fault of white people, then he's wrong. If he meant its no one's fault, then he's right.

in the context he said it, pretty sure he meant it in the first tone you mention.

and not sure wtf you mean by "its no ones fault" when it's crystal clear who's fault it is.

 

[CZroe]

You must believe in humans having souls, right? Do you think that's the case? You must. Otherwise you would be a little more intelligent with your outlook.
Try this instead. People are animals, just like bears and sharks and everything else. Science tells you this is the case, so don't go being willfully ignorant on me, please.
If a shark attacks a person, do you "blame" the shark? If a bear attacks a person, do you "blame" the bear? Only an idiot would. They were just being the creature they are.
The people you claim who are willfully ignorant are only doing what people do who find themselves in their particular culture and situation. Have some fucking compassion. Its not their fault. Yes, they are wrong and ignorant, but you would be too in their shoes, unless you think you are somehow superior in a fundamental way.

Wow. Here's a concept: PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR ACTIONS. I wouldn't hire child molesters, rapists, impulsive accident-prone morons, people with no education or common sense for a job that requires both, etc because they likely will not do a good job and/or will cause a legal liability due to their actions. If they decide to repeat lies and line up because they refused to listen to the facts then they are responsible. I do not tolerate it. Their position on this issue regardless of their ability to divorce race from the discussion is a litmus test for stupidity. They weren't too lazy to get the facts. They didn't refuse to think critically or listen to alternative viewpoints because they were lazy. How do I know? Because they were motivated enough to get off their asses and protest. They did it because they were STUPID or they were WILLFULLY IGNORANT. Unless they are all mentally handicapped, they have no excuse.

Standards. I has them.

 

[moonbogg]

Of course they're at fault, they can resolve their situation, they just choose not to. Every day, minorities are working to better themselves and their situations - you know, like those shop owners who were vandalized and robbed. A vocal minority (within a minority) that demand to be handed everything on a silver platter are what's impeding progress. Their kids learn from them, and then it spreads.

Causes and effects. No room for blame in there. Blame is an imaginary thing that people use to make themselves feel superior to others. If you were born black, in Ferguson, with a dad who was taught by his dad that white people hate you, then you could find yourself in the same shoes as the people who you are so quick to cast blame upon.
What about you anyway? Why haven't you done better in life than you have done so far? Why is your outlook on life not as refined as a brilliant intellectual with all sorts of worldly experience? Is that your fault? If its not your fault, then why is the rioting their fault?
You choose an imaginary bar, that you set above someone else's head, and then you blame them for not clearing it. Meanwhile, watch your head, because there is an imaginary bar above yours as well.

 

[TechBoyJK]

Why? Because they are wrong and ignorant? Why does that equal blame? Why can't they just be wrong and ignorant?

It's a common saying that ignorance of the law is no excuse.

If I don't know it's illegal to drive 90mph in a school zone, I can't say 'well i didn't know!'.

So in her case, being ignorant does merit blame.

If I'm so ignorant I put motor oil in my radiator, isn't that still my fault when I mess up my car? Of course it is. My ignorance is to blame.

 

[smackababy]

Wow. Here's a concept: PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR ACTIONS. I wouldn't hire child molesters, rapists, impulsive accident-prone morons, people with no education or common sense for a job that requires both, etc because they likely will not do a good job and/or will cause a legal liability due to their actions. If they decide to repeat lies and line up because they refused to listen to the facts then they are responsible. I do not tolerate it. Their position on this issue regardless of their ability to divorce race from the discussion is a litmus test for stupidity. They weren't too lazy to get the facts. They didn't refuse to think critically or listen to alternative viewpoints because they were lazy. How do I know? Because they were motivated enough to get off their asses and protest. They did it because they were STUPID or they were WILLFULLY IGNORANT. Unless they are all mentally handicapped, they have no excuse.

Standards. I has them.

Personal responsibility? Ha! This is America, man! Land of the 'herp derp golly I didn't know, better sue that entity'

Next you're going to tell me it isn't okay to shut off services to my house because I haven't paid in over a year...

 

[moonbogg]

Wow. Here's a concept: PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR ACTIONS. I wouldn't hire child molesters, rapists, impulsive accident-prone morons, people with no education or common sense for a job that requires both, etc because they likely will not do a good job and/or will cause a legal liability due to their actions. If they decide to repeat lies and line up because they refused to listen to the facts then they are responsible. I do not tolerate it. Their position on this issue regardless of their ability to divorce race from the discussion is a litmus test for stupidity. They weren't too lazy to get the facts. They didn't refuse to think critically or listen to alternative viewpoints because they were lazy. How do I know? Because they were motivated enough to get off their asses and protest. They did it because they were STUPID or they were WILLFULLY IGNORANT. Unless they are all mentally handicapped, they have no excuse.

Standards. I has them.

You don't get it. Of course you wouldn't hire those people. Neither would I. You also wouldn't have a bear as a pet. Do you blame the bear for being dangerous? If you did, what kind of attitude would people have toward bears? Would we hunt and imprison them for being dangerous?
People get upset when someone shoots an animal if it attacks someone. They say it was just being the animal it is. All I'm saying is give humans the same respect you would give any other animal.

 

[moonbogg]

It's a common saying that ignorance of the law is no excuse.

If I don't know it's illegal to drive 90mph in a school zone, I can't say 'well i didn't know!'.

So in her case, being ignorant does merit blame.

If I'm so ignorant I put motor oil in my radiator, isn't that still my fault when I mess up my car? Of course it is. My ignorance is to blame.

But you are not to blame for your ignorance. Its ridiculous to blame someone for not being something they are not.

 

[moonbogg]

in the context he said it, pretty sure he meant it in the first tone you mention.

and not sure wtf you mean by "its no ones fault" when it's crystal clear who's fault it is.

Yeah I'm afraid he meant its someone else's fault. When I say no one is at fault, I am speaking very literally. I am not speaking everyday language, because every day language is wrong in this regard and doesn't get the job done.

 

[IEC]

For those parroting the lie that "only a tiny fraction" of protesters were violent...

Well, the leaked videos don't agree with you.

Yup, lots of "peaceful" protesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDLpiEWlFZ0#t=44

 

[CZroe]

But you are not to blame for your ignorance. Its ridiculous to blame someone for not being something they are not.

I said WILLFULL ignorance. The facts are there and they know that. They REFUSED to acknowledge or think critically about what they were told. Got it? I was very specific. Even if were were talking about simple ignorance, it is impulsive and dangerous to act without addressing your own ignorance first. If you still take action without thinking or trying to inform yourself, it's STILL willful ignorance and not something you can dismiss as "oh well I didn't know!"

Responsibility. If you took ignorant action when the facts were available to you, you are irresponsible.

 

[moonbogg]

I said WILLFULL ignorance. The facts are there and they know that. They REFUSED to acknowledge or think critically about what they were told. Got it? I was very specific. Even if were were talking about simple ignorance, it is impulsive and dangerous to act without addressing your own ignorance first. If you still take action without thinking or trying to inform yourself, it's STILL willful ignorance and not something you can dismiss as "oh well I didn't know!"

Responsibility. If you took ignorant action when the facts were available to you, you are irresponsible.

Here is where it gets delicate. Think about what you said. They had the facts, but refused to acknowledge them. If that's the case, they are not ignorant, instead they are rebellious.
Alternatively, lets say the facts were presented to them and they did not believe those facts, is it their choice to believe or not believe? I say its not their choice to believe something their minds will not accept. Something in their heads prompted them to reject the truth. It is not a choice. If it was a choice, then they know the truth but act rebelliously.
If they are ignorant, its not their fault.
If they are not ignorant, but rebel, its not their fault for feeling what they feel. In their minds, they are justified. That's what they believe and there are reasons for those beliefs that are beyond their control.
I do not believe the God my family worships is real. That is not my choice to believe, although many people like to think it is. I have no ability to control my beliefs. They are formed.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

http://ktla.com/2014/11/26/protesters-block-traffic-on-5-freeway-in-san-diego-area/

Blocking the freeway is the quickest way to get people to go against your cause in CA.

You don't mess with traffic.

 

[BeeBoop]

For those parroting the lie that "only a tiny fraction" of protesters were violent...

Well, the leaked videos don't agree with you.

Yup, lots of "peaceful" protesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDLpiEWlFZ0#t=44

That's just horrible and stupid. What do they expect to do the next day when they need to get something to eat and gas? What about the jobs when all the businesses are going to leave?

 

[purbeast0]

http://ktla.com/2014/11/26/protesters-block-traffic-on-5-freeway-in-san-diego-area/

Blocking the freeway is the quickest way to get people to go against your cause in CA.

You don't mess with traffic.

even shit like that, i do not understand what they are trying to accomplish. all they are doing is pissing off hundreds of people who have nothing to do with what happened. and if they did that to me, no matter what they were protesting, i'd probably take the opposite stance just because they pissed me off.

 

[purbeast0]

Yeah I'm afraid he meant its someone else's fault. When I say no one is at fault, I am speaking very literally. I am not speaking everyday language, because every day language is wrong in this regard and doesn't get the job done.

i think you are speaking crazy.

 

[MarkXIX]

Most likely because it wasn't really a "jam". The media has no clue, and any time a gun doesn't fire it's called a "jam". That gun has an exposed hammer, and if it doesn't have a clear path to travel it won't hit the firing pin hard enough to fire. I imagine that's what happened in the struggle, but I'm also not sure where that story came from and if it's believable. This has been such a clusterfuck I'm having a hard time believing anything anybody reports anymore.

Three possibilities here:

1) Slide held in place, however, if just the slide were prevented from action that means that it should fire a round in the chamber but that's it, it would be unable to load the next round. Possible that the department policy prevented officers from carrying "hot" meaning there's a round in the chamber, thereby requiring the slide to be actuated to rack a round. Possible that the slide was racked during the struggle to load the first round.

2) Finger/material in the trigger action would have prevented the weapon from firing at all, regardless of #1 above.

3) Finger/material in the hammer action would have prevented the weapon from firing regarding of #1 or #2 above. This is the MOST LIKELY scenario since it appeared Mr. Brown had large hands and would have easily been able to wrap his hand around the rear of the weapon, possibly attempting to wrest it away from the officer, but that's speculation on my part.

Not to mention the weapon safety on that weapon (I'm not familiar with it). As a Soldier I've done these drills where you do physical activity then try to operate your weapon(s). Fine motor skill goes to shit really quickly and it almost doesn't matter how much training you've got, your marksmanship skills go to hell in a handbasket. Many police departments aren't budgeted to conduct advanced weapons training and qualification.