Riots expected after acquittal: Michael Brown

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LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
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I mentioned taser because it's considered more humane and an alternative to killing someone. Certainly better than shotting someone in the leg, imho. Also, a taser has a much larger surface area compared to a bullet and there are two of them. Finally, a taser will definitely stop a person cold compared to a bullet. You shoot a bullet at a 300lbs man and he can still grab you and hurt you real bad. Shoot a taser and he stiffens up like a 2'X4' and falls hard to the ground. That'll give you time to put the cuffs on him.

And if the taser misses? Then what? You have a 300lb man bearing down. This recently happened in MN, guy rushing the cops had a taser fired at him, contacts didn't get to the skin, guy keeps coming, partner takes the guy down but only after a struggle. Guy later died too.
 
May 11, 2008
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I was watching a documentary a few days ago about venom. Is that not an idea ? A close range weapon that delivers a venom that creates temporary convulsions or a weakening of the skeletal muscles but is not deadly ? There is research done about the effects of the various toxins found in cone snails. The perpetrator only needs to be weakened, not knocked unconscious.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,234
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Seriously. Follow the quote tree, Dari.

...and taser barbs often don't embed correctly to deliver the stun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtD-4LFrjhM

That is what might happen. The guy even had a lot of exposed skin that wasn't covered with clothing and it still had no effect.
I mentioned taser because it's considered more humane and an alternative to killing someone. Certainly better than shotting someone in the leg, imho. Also, a taser has a much larger surface area compared to a bullet and there are two of them. Finally, a taser will definitely stop a person cold compared to a bullet. You shoot a bullet at a 300lbs man and he can still grab you and hurt you real bad. Shoot a taser and he stiffens up like a 2'X4' and falls hard to the ground. That'll give you time to put the cuffs on him.
You missed something.

If both barbs don't embed, the taser doesn't work. You get ONE shot.

Did it stop that particular large man in the video link I posted? Especially through clothing, it's an extremely common scenario that the barbs don't embed and the taser has no effect.

If someone is charging at you, a taser is the wrong tool. Period.

How do you quote my post and then make a statement like that? How?



Does not compute.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
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You missed something.

If both barbs don't embed, the taser doesn't work. You get ONE shot.

Did it stop that particular large man in the video link I posted? Especially through clothing, it's an extremely common scenario that the barbs don't embed and the taser has no effect.

If someone is charging at you, a taser is the wrong tool. Period.

And if the taser misses? Then what? You have a 300lb man bearing down. This recently happened in MN, guy rushing the cops had a taser fired at him, contacts didn't get to the skin, guy keeps coming, partner takes the guy down but only after a struggle. Guy later died too.

I did not watch the video. But, yeah, tasers have not developed to the point of replacing guns. However, it's illegal to shoot someone in the leg. You shoot to kill.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
I was watching a documentary a few days ago about venom. Is that not an idea ? A close range weapon that delivers a venom that creates temporary convulsions or a weakening of the skeletal muscles but is not deadly ? There is research done about the effects of the various toxins found in cone snails. The perpetrator only needs to be weakened, not knocked unconscious.

I don't know what toxin could be used which is instantaneous, safe and effective over a wide range of body weights. Sound and intense light are a possibility, but there are individuals who are outside norms and distance is a factor. Too far and nothing. A switch to a means of deadly force very quickly would be necessary.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
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I did not watch the video. But, yeah, tasers have not developed to the point of replacing guns. However, it's illegal to shoot someone in the leg. You shoot to kill.

Yes.

If you try to shoot to maim / injure, you put yourself and bystanders at greater risk.
 

MarkXIX

Platinum Member
Jan 3, 2010
2,642
1
71
I think the best solution for this whole situation is for police officers to shoot at the legs. Maybe they should get special training for that. The idea is to stop the perpetrator, not kill him. Even if it means that the perpetrator may lose his legs. His fault for committing a crime.
Even in a worst case scenario where a perpetrator is strung out on drugs and agressive, he cannot run and attack without knees.

Yeah, and risk a shot to the pelvis, one of the primary areas that if the arteries are hit almost immediately means that the victim dies of massive blood loss because applying pressure in that location is damn near impossible.

Center mass to the torso is still the "best" option. Lots of redundant systems in the torso short of the heart itself and still more survivable than other places you can be hit.

Also, let's aim downward toward hard surface and increase the likelihood of ricochet and other collateral damage.

Despite the media ignorance, there's a reason why torso shots to center mass are preferred and believe it or not the primary reason is NOT to simply kill the assailant.
 
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mistercrabby

Senior member
Mar 9, 2013
963
53
91
Is this a candidate for a Darwin Award?

"Named in honor of Charles Darwin, the father of evolution, the Darwin Awards commemorate those who improve our gene pool by removing themselves from it."

Something like "Cigarillo addict unhappy with life and high on adrenalin after thuggishly stealing a box of his precious cancer sticks decides to commit suicide by cop..."
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
856
126
That's why there are tasers...

And, as discussed, you would not use a tool like a taser where you would use a gun. They aren't a non-lethal substitute for a gun because you simply cannot risk using a one-shot tool for defense against a moving target that will kill you if you miss. You shoot a gun to stop a threat to your life, NOT a taser.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
I was watching a documentary a few days ago about venom. Is that not an idea ? A close range weapon that delivers a venom that creates temporary convulsions or a weakening of the skeletal muscles but is not deadly ? There is research done about the effects of the various toxins found in cone snails. The perpetrator only needs to be weakened, not knocked unconscious.

Yes, you definitely know better than any of those agencies that do this stuff for a living.

/s
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,234
136
I was watching a documentary a few days ago about venom. Is that not an idea ? A close range weapon that delivers a venom that creates temporary convulsions or a weakening of the skeletal muscles but is not deadly ? There is research done about the effects of the various toxins found in cone snails. The perpetrator only needs to be weakened, not knocked unconscious.

Then you hit someone with the venom and find out they have serious allergies that cause death from the tiniest bit being injected this way. It would probably kill way more than tasers.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
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And, as discussed, you would not use a tool like a taser where you would use a gun. They aren't a non-lethal substitute for a gun because you simply cannot risk using a one-shot tool for defense against a moving target that will kill you if you miss. You shoot a gun to stop a threat to your life, NOT a taser.

That was the point when the poster suggested shooting someone in the legs

Fine, if not tasers then we should try rubber bullets.
 
May 11, 2008
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Then you hit someone with the venom and find out they have serious allergies that cause death from the tiniest bit being injected this way. It would probably kill way more than tasers.

Yes, you definitely know better than any of those agencies that do this stuff for a living.

/s

It was just a suggestion. I am going to ask you : How many bullets were fired by Wilson and how many did actually hit Brown before the fatal bullet was shot ? Brown kept on coming.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
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It was just a suggestion. I am going to ask you : How many bullets were fired by Wilson and how many did actually hit Brown before the fatal bullet was shot ? Brown kept on coming.

Because he was a huge person. Those little bullets that aren't kill shots aren't going to take someone down the size of Michael Brown.
 
May 11, 2008
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Because he was a huge person. Those little bullets that aren't kill shots aren't going to take someone down the size of Michael Brown.

I think the issue is that Wilson was alone when confronting Brown.
Or there should always be at least two police officers in a car.
Or, you have to select police officers for their physique and who are trained to fight and combat as marines.
Police officers that look like UFC fighters.

For example :
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
Darren Wilson will not get a severance.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/two-arrests-made-after-ferguson-police-officer-resigns-1417365692

Will he be able to become a police officer again? I seriously doubt it. I think he's going to be too much of a liability. What does he do next? Move overseas maybe? Find another line of work?

From what I was seeing on CNN, you have to be an officer for 8yrs to get the long term benefits. I think he was an officer for 6yrs. He definitely will never be a police officer again.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
I think the issue is that Wilson was alone when confronting Brown.
Or there should always be at least two police officers in a car.
Or, you have to select police officers for their physique and who are trained to fight and combat as marines.
Police officers that look like UFC fighters.

For example :

In Texas police ride alone, but they carry a 10 gage shotgun in the trunk.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
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I think most cops have a shotgun in the truck.

I'm not sure about New York. But they almost always have partners. But, man, those shotguns are no joke. Even if you miss you can't miss. And those shell'll spin you around like a young James Brown.
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,578
1,741
126
From what I was seeing on CNN, you have to be an officer for 8yrs to get the long term benefits. I think he was an officer for 6yrs. He definitely will never be a police officer again.

Even if he had 8 years in I doubt the benefits would have amounted to much. I'm surprised that they couldn't put him on desk work and in another state.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Even if he had 8 years in I doubt the benefits would have amounted to much. I'm surprised that they couldn't put him on desk work and in another state.

He quit. He wasn't forced out. He can find work if he wants...in Idaho or Dubuque, Iowa.
 
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