RIP Gamers, not even the 1080 Ti will save you now.

[24601]

It may be too late now, if/when the bubble bursts again, Nvidia will feel the brunt of what AMD went through when the used card market was flooded with 290's for super cheap. Made AMD's mid-range poor sellers for awhile as they had to compete with the glut of used previously high end cards. If crypto stays high, then they'll continue to sell every card they make.

2070 for $500 vs used 1080ti for $300 anyone?

AMD has been making as many cards as they can for over a year now. That's why 570/580 is even purchasable for any price for the last year.

AMD was unable to sell cards 1 year after crytocrash because their cards sucked at everything other than mining (even worse situation today than when used 290(x)'s/390(x)'s were flooding the market).

AMD GPU division is fully dead, their only claim to life is due to the current mining environment.

Nvidia has plenty of depth of market to absorb any number of used pascal cards due to the fact that they have been measured in their production the entire time.

That's why prices never went down on 1060 and 1070 throughout the entire year from their mining peaks.

It's important not to overestimate how many 1080 and 1080 Ti actually exist.

Take a look at the Steam Hardware Survey and you can see clearly that the 1080 and 1080 Ti cannot saturate the market in any way shape or form.

The disparity of demand between Nvidia's mainstream cards and Nvidia's high end cards is massive.

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060
6.59%
7.71%
11.50%
13.41%
14.86%
+1.45%

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 750 Ti
5.84%
6.22%
12.70%
14.61%
13.50%
-1.11%

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960
6.02%
6.81%
12.96%
14.06%
13.22%
-0.84%

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti
3.89%
5.14%
8.39%
9.90%
10.80%
+0.90%

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 950
2.38%
2.57%
5.29%
6.03%
5.67%
-0.36%

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050
2.54%
3.08%
3.94%
4.40%
4.41%
+0.01%

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970
3.61%
3.49%
2.35%
1.94%
1.95%
+0.01%

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080
1.40%
1.41%
0.95%
0.81%
0.90%
+0.09%

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti
0.49%
0.56%
0.39%
0.34%
0.40%
+0.06%

 

[Paratus]

AMD has been making as many cards as they can for over a year now. That's why 570/580 is even purchasable for any price for the last year.

AMD was unable to sell cards 1 year after crytocrash because their cards sucked at everything other than mining (even worse situation today than when used 290(x)'s/390(x)'s were flooding the market).

AMD GPU division is fully dead, their only claim to life is due to the current mining environment.

Nvidia has plenty of depth of market to absorb any number of used pascal cards due to the fact that they have been measured in their production the entire time.

That's why prices never went down on 1060 and 1070 throughout the entire year from their mining peaks.

It's important not to overestimate how many 1080 and 1080 Ti actually exist.

Take a look at the Steam Hardware Survey and you can see clearly that the 1080 and 1080 Ti cannot saturate the market in any way shape or form.

The disparity of demand between Nvidia's mainstream cards and Nvidia's high end cards is massive.

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060
6.59%
7.71%
11.50%
13.41%
14.86%
+1.45%

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 750 Ti
5.84%
6.22%
12.70%
14.61%
13.50%
-1.11%

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960
6.02%
6.81%
12.96%
14.06%
13.22%
-0.84%

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti
3.89%
5.14%
8.39%
9.90%
10.80%
+0.90%

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 950
2.38%
2.57%
5.29%
6.03%
5.67%
-0.36%

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050
2.54%
3.08%
3.94%
4.40%
4.41%
+0.01%

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970
3.61%
3.49%
2.35%
1.94%
1.95%
+0.01%

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080
1.40%
1.41%
0.95%
0.81%
0.90%
+0.09%

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti
0.49%
0.56%
0.39%
0.34%
0.40%
+0.06%

AMDs GPU division is dead, except for embedded GPUs in the various Xboxes and PS4s, the intel / Vega mobile chips, the Vega variants Apple purchased, Ryzen mobile, and as you point out all the Polaris and Vega GPUs that are sold out.

I mean other than that.

Radeon being dead is the same thing I heard on this board from certain members after the 2900XT came out. Lucky for us that wasn’t the case and 2 1/2 years later the first DX11 high end card (5870) was $379 instead of $650 like the previous high end DX10 card (GTX 285).

Once more the next two gens had high end cards around $500.

So hopefully this bubble will burst and AMD will regroup because I don’t want my only options to be integrated graphics or $1K -$3K Titans.

 

[24601]

AMDs GPU division is dead, except for embedded GPUs in the various Xboxes and PS4s, the intel / Vega mobile chips, the Vega variants Apple purchased, Ryzen mobile, and as you point out all the Polaris and Vega GPUs that are sold out.

I mean other than that.

Radeon being dead is the same thing I heard on this board from certain members after the 2900XT came out. Lucky for us that wasn’t the case and 2 1/2 years later the first DX11 high end card (5870) was $379 instead of $650 like the previous high end DX10 card (GTX 285).

Once more the next two gens had high end cards around $500.

So hopefully this bubble will burst and AMD will regroup because I don’t want my only options to be integrated graphics or $1K -$3K Titans.

If/When the current mining situation ends AMD's GPU division will be left with GPUs that they can no longer sell to anyone.

Intel's EMIB implementation + their internal discrete GPU roadmap is clearly aiming at the console market as their emergency fab space occupier option (their contingency if/when they fail to challenge Nvidia in the HPC/DPL markets).

Intel is extremely desperate to have anything to fill fab space so that they can increase CAPEX to avert what happened in their 14nm and 10nm ramp-up again (Both victims of massive CAPEX reductions).

AMD has literally zero new architecture in the works as Navi is another GCN variant.

They lost their chief GPU engineer, which shows that they don't plan on doing any more major design revisions in the future.

The AMD GPU wind-down is clear, and has been going on for 6 years now.

 

[zubbs1]

I've had the upgrade itch and was waiting patiently in 2017 to to see how vega fleshed out. Then I was between jobs and moving houses, so my upgrade plans got delayed. I wasn't looking closely at prices and tech news at all, and now I'm furious. I was really get amped to do an upgrade. I went on pcpartpicker and planned a build. Was curious why there was no pricing for the 1080ti. Did some searching and holy s***.

I have an i5 2500k with a GTX670 that I put together in 2012. Six years is pushing the end of a normal upgrade cycle, especially for the GPU. I did purchase an ultrawide 3440x1440 monitor a year ago. Now I have a really nice monitor that I can render 10-15 fps on modern titles. I can only game now at 1280x720 resolution to get good fps.

The only gaming I can seriously do now is on bluestacks running android games from the playstore. Not the future I envisioned with a high end gaming pc.

Its a shame they cannot manufacture mining cards that stink at gaming, and gaming cards that stink at mining. Then they would make everyone happy.

Guess my next upgrade will be to a PS4....

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Just buy a Star Wars Edition Titan XP for $1138 straight from nVIDIA.
That's actually the "best value" card out there right now (considering everything else either green or red is price gouged to sh*t)

 

[Red Squirrel]

Wonder what the hash rate of a Titan XP is. Can't find too many figures online, guessing not lot of people decided to try it.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I've had the upgrade itch and was waiting patiently in 2017 to to see how vega fleshed out. Then I was between jobs and moving houses, so my upgrade plans got delayed. I wasn't looking closely at prices and tech news at all, and now I'm furious. I was really get amped to do an upgrade. I went on pcpartpicker and planned a build. Was curious why there was no pricing for the 1080ti. Did some searching and holy s***.

I have an i5 2500k with a GTX670 that I put together in 2012. Six years is pushing the end of a normal upgrade cycle, especially for the GPU. I did purchase an ultrawide 3440x1440 monitor a year ago. Now I have a really nice monitor that I can render 10-15 fps on modern titles. I can only game now at 1280x720 resolution to get good fps.

The only gaming I can seriously do now is on bluestacks running android games from the playstore. Not the future I envisioned with a high end gaming pc.

Its a shame they cannot manufacture mining cards that stink at gaming, and gaming cards that stink at mining. Then they would make everyone happy.

Guess my next upgrade will be to a PS4....

Oh come now. I'm in the same boat. On a 2500k system I built...6-7 years ago and I moved from a gtx480 to a 290x when Witcher 3 came out and it takes everything I throw at it in 1440p as well as VR. I know everyone is gaga over 4k at the moment but it is hardly necessary to enjoy gaming. You do NOT need a 1080 TI to run most games in ultra (granted I also have a Freesync 144 monitor, so that may offset it some. )

 

[Red Squirrel]

Wait until someone figures out how to mine on PS4's and Xboxes.

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Oh come now. I'm in the same boat. On a 2500k system I built...6-7 years ago and I moved from a gtx480 to a 290x when Witcher 3 came out and it takes everything I throw at it in 1440p as well as VR. I know everyone is gaga over 4k at the moment but it is hardly necessary to enjoy gaming. You do NOT need a 1080 TI to run most games in ultra (granted I also have a Freesync 144 monitor, so that may offset it some. )

+1
My 1080 is running 1080 (technically 3x 1920x1200 60Hz).

 

[Paratus]

If/When the current mining situation ends AMD's GPU division will be left with GPUs that they can no longer sell to anyone.

Intel's EMIB implementation + their internal discrete GPU roadmap is clearly aiming at the console market as their emergency fab space occupier option.

Intel is extremely desperate to have anything to fill fab space so that they can increase CAPEX to avert what happened in their 14nm and 10nm ramp-up again (Both victims of massive CAPEX reductions).

AMD has literally zero new architecture in the works as Navi is another GCN variant.

They lost their chief GPU engineer, which shows that they don't plan on doing any more major design revisions in the future.

The AMD GPU wind-down is clear, and has been going on for 6 years now.

Why is that? Are you assuming pent up demand will be satisfied by a glut of used mining cards?

Once mining demand is gone RX 570/580’s at $200 + $20 and Vega 56/64’s at $400 + $50 will be quite competitive with the 1060-1080s and the potential 2050-2070s replacements at the prices NV will charge.

NV will slow roll next gen since AMD competition is weak. This will give folks plenty of time to buy three more variants of NVs top end.

While intel maybe looking to fill fab space the AMD Intel collaboration is also about Intel targeting Nvidia revenue. Desktop integrated graphics are currently intel. Low to mid range mobile graphics will be Intel or mobile Ryzen. Mid high will be competition with intel-AMD which NV has had to themselves up until now.

The GCN architecture has continued to evolve and quite frankly it’s only real downside currently is the ROP limitation.

NVs architecture can be directly traced back passed Kepler. So whatever Navi is it will be another improvement on GCN.

Finally, employees are replaceable, even chief GPU engineers. If it’s taken AMD 6 years to wind down it’s GPU division I have no fear they’ll still be here long after I’m gone.

 

[24601]

Why is that? Are you assuming pent up demand will be satisfied by a glut of used mining cards?

Once mining demand is gone RX 570/580’s at $200 + $20 and Vega 56/64’s at $400 + $50 will be quite competitive with the 1060-1080s and the potential 2050-2070s replacements at the prices NV will charge.

NV will slow roll next gen since AMD competition is weak. This will give folks plenty of time to buy three more variants of NVs top end.

While intel maybe looking to fill fab space the AMD Intel collaboration is also about Intel targeting Nvidia revenue. Desktop integrated graphics are currently intel. Low to mid range mobile graphics will be Intel or mobile Ryzen. Mid high will be competition with intel-AMD which NV has had to themselves up until now.

The GCN architecture has continued to evolve and quite frankly it’s only real downside currently is the ROP limitation.

NVs architecture can be directly traced back passed Kepler. So whatever Navi is it will be another improvement on GCN.

Finally, employees are replaceable, even chief GPU engineers. If it’s taken AMD 6 years to wind down it’s GPU division I have no fear they’ll still be here long after I’m gone.

I'll stay with my predictions that have been right for every single release from the 7970 till now, thanks.

And a heads up in case you didn't know, I'm talking about Intel's >>own<< dedicated GPUs.

The Intel cpu connected to VEGA via 8x PCI-E 3.0; using EMIB to connect VEGA to HBM2 was Raja's resume.

 

[Alpha One Seven]

https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=-1 8000&IsNodeId=1&Description=gtx 1080 ti&bop=And&order=PRICE&page=1

https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=-1&IsNodeId=1&Description=gtx 1080&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=60

https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007709 8000&IsNodeId=1&Description=gtx 1070 ti&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=36

https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=-1 8000&IsNodeId=1&Description=gtx 1070&bop=And&PageSize=36&order=PRICE

So much mining demand not even Nvidia can keep up now.

The End is Nigh.

My nVidia stock is doing quite well. Better than I could make mining fake money.

 

[tamz_msc]

Intel's EMIB implementation + their internal discrete GPU roadmap is clearly aiming at the console market as their emergency fab space occupier option (their contingency if/when they fail to challenge Nvidia in the HPC/DPL markets).

DL is just a small(albeit rapidly growing) subset of HPC. Intel has HPC mostly covered, Xeon Phis are doing well against NVIDIA GPUs.

NVIDIA is no immediate threat to Intel in HPC outside of DL.

I doubt Intel can recuperate the est. 2x costs of going to 7/10nm from 14/16nm fabbing console chips alone(on top of their x86 stuff), even if they charge 200$ for each EMIB product that will ultimately end up in a ~350$ consumer device.

 

[Paratus]

I'll stay with my predictions that have been right for every single release from the 7970 till now, thanks.

And a heads up in case you didn't know, I'm talking about Intel's >>own<< dedicated GPUs.

The Intel cpu connected to VEGA via 8x PCI-E 3.0; using EMIB to connect VEGA to HBM2 was Raja's resume.

You are obviously welcome to your opinion.

As for intel developing their own high performance GPU, there’s along way to go from a neat new version of a PCIe bus to a high performance GPU. One that doesn’t have patent issues as well.

 

[24601]

DL is just a small(albeit rapidly growing) subset of HPC. Intel has HPC mostly covered, Xeon Phis are doing well against NVIDIA GPUs.

NVIDIA is no immediate threat to Intel in HPC outside of DL.

I doubt Intel can recuperate the est. 2x costs of going to 7/10nm from 14/16nm fabbing console chips alone(on top of their x86 stuff), even if they charge 200$ for each EMIB product that will ultimately end up in a ~350$ consumer device.

Intel is willing to fab standard ARM chips for anyone with a pulse.

They are desperate, that's the entire reason why they are trying to eat fab space with GPUs.

x86 isn't anywhere near enough to fill their fabs, that's why they closed their planned "brand new" 14nm fab and cut CAPEX to the bone to start with.

Intel is in panic mode, they have literally no idea how to fill their fabs and have tried literally everything else already.

 

[tamz_msc]

Intel is willing to fab standard ARM chips for anyone with a pulse.

Why would anyone with a pulse even want to go to Intel to fab their ARM SoC?

 

[PeterScott]

You are obviously welcome to your opinion.

As for intel developing their own high performance GPU, there’s along way to go from a neat new version of a PCIe bus to a high performance GPU. One that doesn’t have patent issues as well.

People seem to keep forgetting that Intel has access to all of NVidia GPU patents into 2017.

Also consider that patents usually get filed well before the features make it into products, so Intel likely has patent access to NVidia features that are yet to come to market.

Intel has no patent issues with building a GPU.

 

[zubbs1]

Oh come now. I'm in the same boat. On a 2500k system I built...6-7 years ago and I moved from a gtx480 to a 290x when Witcher 3 came out and it takes everything I throw at it in 1440p as well as VR. I know everyone is gaga over 4k at the moment but it is hardly necessary to enjoy gaming. You do NOT need a 1080 TI to run most games in ultra (granted I also have a Freesync 144 monitor, so that may offset it some. )

Oh come now. I'm in the same boat. On a 2500k system I built...6-7 years ago and I moved from a gtx480 to a 290x when Witcher 3 came out and it takes everything I throw at it in 1440p as well as VR. I know everyone is gaga over 4k at the moment but it is hardly necessary to enjoy gaming. You do NOT need a 1080 TI to run most games in ultra (granted I also have a Freesync 144 monitor, so that may offset it some. )

I am running a 3440 x 1440 75hz monitor. I also don't like to upgrade often (as in 5-6 years). I figure I'd need a 1080 or 1080ti to push the monitor to its limit for the next several years. The cpu I'm not really disappointed with, but I have 8GB ram which I'm starting to see the limitations from, and I mostly blame stupid windows 10 for that. So I figure might as well build a new unit and repurpose the existing pc for another server or something.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Wonder what the hash rate of a Titan XP is. Can't find too many figures online, guessing not lot of people decided to try it.

Not very high. It mines ETH about as well as Vega 64, so what does that tell you? It might be better at ZEC mining.

Wait until someone figures out how to mine on PS4's and Xboxes.

I'm a little surprised nobody's done that already. Hell it's GCN with a lot of GDDR5, and PS4 has at least been hacked to host and entirely new OS.

My nVidia stock is doing quite well. Better than I could make mining fake money.

Fake money jibe aside, no, Nvidia stock is nowhere near as profitable as mining crypto. ETH went from ~$7 in Dec 2016 to over $600 by the end of Dec 2017, and recently reached an ATH higher than $1300. There's no way you can match gains like that on the stock market.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Wait until someone figures out how to mine on PS4's and Xboxes.

Thankfully PS4 Slim would likely be crap for mining.

 

[sdifox]

Wait until someone figures out how to mine on PS4's and Xboxes.

They'll lose it real fast. Them consoles don't have lots of thermal capacity.

 

[Madpacket]

So many butthurt entitled whiners in here. You had plenty of time to buy a video card at or below MSRP. This "mining fad" hasn't been for a long time and isn't going away, also the run-up in prices didn't happen overnight. Don't blame AMD and Nvidia's other customers because they demand them for mining. Gamers have no more right to a video card than a miner does. If you really want to blame someone other than yourself for sitting on your hands when these cards were at MSRP for months, blame the companies who ignored all the obvious signs of increased demand. The hatred here is unwarranted. A gamer is no more entitled to a GPU than a miner.

 

[Headfoot]

Wonder what the hash rate of a Titan XP is. Can't find too many figures online, guessing not lot of people decided to try it.

Well my 1080ti with +750 on memory @ 65% power limit does about 37mh in Eth dualmining SIA with Claymore, Titan XP probably pretty close

 

[Headfoot]

My nVidia stock is doing quite well. Better than I could make mining fake money.

Wow, you beat Ethereum's 13,000 percent gains? Can't believe nVidia had that great of a year!

 

[whm1974]

So many butthurt entitled whiners in here. You had plenty of time to buy a video card at or below MSRP. This "mining fad" hasn't been for a long time and isn't going away, also the run-up in prices didn't happen overnight. Don't blame AMD and Nvidia's other customers because they demand them for mining. Gamers have no more right to a video card than a miner does. If you really want to blame someone other than yourself for sitting on your hands when these cards were at MSRP for months, blame the companies who ignored all the obvious signs of increased demand. The hatred here is unwarranted. A gamer is no more entitled to a GPU than a miner.

I disagree, it take time to save money for purchasing items as I didn't have the funds to buy a 1070 last year. And this mining bubble is causing out of stock products and high prices for gamers, which is why we are complaining about this.