RIP Gamers, not even the 1080 Ti will save you now.

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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,808
11,164
136
Just a few extra thoughts to add to the conversation:

1). The Chinese government authorities have announced that they are going to forcibly shut down all Bitcoin mining operations. That means a lot of ASICs will come offline within the next few months and find their way into other countries. It is unknown whether those ASICs will be confiscated and destroyed, sold through international channels, or simply relocated. I would assume that non-Bitcoin mines running GPUs (headless or otherwise) will be next on the list. Potentially, a lot of Chinese miner cards could wind up on foreign markets. Time will tell.

2). I generally agree with the posters who have observed that AMD and Nvidia don't want to get too far outside the bounds of "normal" production to meet mining demand. It's easier for them not to ramp production much/at all and enjoy huge boosts in profits. I could see them swinging maybe +10% of estimates, but not much more; furthermore, the demand for mining cards has been known for awhile, so I'm sure they thought they had baked that into their production estimates. Demand is probably spiking more than expected right now.

3). Ethereum is working towards replacing Proof-of-Work (mining) completely sometime within the next 1-2 years. A lot of cards still mine ETH. There will be a big shift in hashpower to coins like Monero at that point, and the end result will be a loss of profits for anyone that is mining. It will not be a sudden transition . . . or at least, I don't think it will be.

4). Don't feel bad for the AI/deep learning folks. AMD and Nvidia are both shifting a lot of their focus towards that market. Bigger players in the deep learning field - and maybe smaller ones - are either now or will in the near future be getting a lot of GPUs packaged and sold for their market. Those GPUs will be sliced out of the gamer pie.

While miners are partly to blame for the shortages, the real story here is that AMD and Nvidia both have learned that they can make a lot more money using their cards for something other than gaming: mining, AI/deep learning, HPC, and suchlike. The long-term trend is away from PC ownership, so it only makes sens for them to get off that bandwagon ASAP.

We are left to fight over scraps.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,425
8,388
126
so, i could buy an xbox and a 4k hdr tv for less than the price of a 1070 on ebay.

goodbye desktop gaming, we hardly knew ye
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
The coin bubble will pop eventually. Long Island Blockchain and Kodak's photo-rights-blockchain announcement shows pretty clearly that valuations are a crazy speculation bubble that is not sustainable,

The people throwing money at coins and blockchain don't seem to realize it's like throwing money at someone for writing a new text editor or hello world app. Anyone can do it, there is no barrier to entry, there are no patents or other protected IP, and nation states and megacorporations can introduce new coins and ledgers at will without paying a penny to the existing groups.

I just hope the bubble pops before the 2080ti is introduced since that will probably be my next card.
 

24601

Golden Member
Jun 10, 2007
1,683
39
86
The coin bubble will pop eventually. Long Island Blockchain and Kodak's photo-rights-blockchain announcement shows pretty clearly that valuations are a crazy speculation bubble that is not sustainable,

The people throwing money at coins and blockchain don't seem to realize it's like throwing money at someone for writing a new text editor or hello world app. Anyone can do it, there is no barrier to entry, there are no patents or other protected IP, and nation states and megacorporations can introduce new coins and ledgers at will without paying a penny to the existing groups.

Tell that to people investing in the stock market where you are literally buying claim to slips of meaningless paper.

Unless you get 50% stake in those slips of meaningless paper it's 100% worthless in reality.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,525
27,829
136
Tell that to people investing in the stock market where you are literally buying claim to slips of meaningless paper.

Unless you get 50% stake in those slips of meaningless paper it's 100% worthless in reality.
Hehehe. At least you get paper. What's crypto got to offer?
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
Tell that to people investing in the stock market where you are literally buying claim to slips of meaningless paper.

Unless you get 50% stake in those slips of meaningless paper it's 100% worthless in reality.

So just like altcoins, someone can legally make a functionally equivalent clone of Apple or Microsoft or Netflix or Walmart that performs identically by spending a few hundred dollars? Good to know!

(That was sarcasm. You can't.)
 
Reactions: prtskg

24601

Golden Member
Jun 10, 2007
1,683
39
86
So just like altcoins, someone can legally make a functionally equivalent clone of Apple or Microsoft or Netflix or Walmart that performs identically by spending a few hundred dollars? Good to know!

(That was sarcasm. You can't.)

Not sure if you understand.

Stock has zero 0 0% inherent worth until you have 50% of the total amount (typically, companies can be structured to where controlling stake is determined differently)

What i'm saying is that by your logic literally 49% of all stock held by people is 100% inherently worthless.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that you do not have a 50% controlling stake in any of the companies you just mentioned.
 

Headfoot

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2008
4,444
641
126
Tell that to people investing in the stock market where you are literally buying claim to slips of meaningless paper.

Unless you get 50% stake in those slips of meaningless paper it's 100% worthless in reality.
You forgot that little detail where having the slip of paper entitles you to a percentage of the dividends, voting rights, right to resell....
 
Reactions: prtskg

24601

Golden Member
Jun 10, 2007
1,683
39
86
You forgot that little detail where having the slip of paper entitles you to a percentage of the dividends, voting rights, right to resell....

100% up to the whims of the company in question, and the people/person/entity that owns the controlling stake.

Most companies are structured in such a way where they can simply stop providing all of those things whenever they feel like if they want to.

Hence "inherent worth".

You really need to start from the beginning of the conversation to understand what is being said.
 

Headfoot

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2008
4,444
641
126
Not sure if you understand.

Stock has zero 0 0% inherent worth until you have 50% of the total amount (typically, companies can be structured to where controlling stake is determined differently)

What i'm saying is that by your logic literally 49% of all stock held by people is 100% inherently worthless.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that you do not have a 50% controlling stake in any of the companies you just mentioned.
Maybe in closely held companies in states with no statutory rights for minority share holders. Plenty of jurisdictions have passed specific statutory remedies for minority shareholders in privately held companies. In my state... https://jux.law/employment-issues-related-to-minority-shareholder-rights/. And you certainly don't need 50% or more for a publicly traded company....
 
Reactions: dlerious

Headfoot

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2008
4,444
641
126
100% up to the whims of the company in question, and the people/person/entity that owns the controlling stake..
Factually incorrect. Several states have oppression doctrine, buyout rights, wrongful termination. Fiduciary duty of loyalty and care. The list continues

Part of the whole appeal of Crytpo is that its almost 100% fully unregulated, unlike regular equity markets.
 

24601

Golden Member
Jun 10, 2007
1,683
39
86
Maybe in closely held companies in states with no statutory rights for minority share holders. Plenty of jurisdictions have passed specific statutory remedies for minority shareholders in privately held companies. In my state... https://jux.law/employment-issues-related-to-minority-shareholder-rights/. And you certainly don't need 50% or more for a publicly traded company....

Factually incorrect. Several states have oppression doctrine, buyout rights, wrongful termination. Fiduciary duty of loyalty and care. The list continues

Part of the whole appeal of Crytpo is that its almost 100% fully unregulated, unlike regular equity markets.

Ireland is a wholely owned subsidiary of companies like Apple, the law is whatever Apple tells them to make it.

Multi-billion dollar companies aren't dumb enough to incorporate in states they don't own.
 

Headfoot

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2008
4,444
641
126
Ireland is a wholely owned subsidiary of companies like Apple, the law is whatever Apple tells them to make it.

Multi-billion dollar companies aren't dumb enough to incorporate in states they don't own.
I see, this is just plain trolling. Go away.

Moderator Edit:
Fighting with and calling out users in a technical forum is not appropriate. If you have an issue with a user, please take it to PM or report the post. Do not derail threads with your bickering. -AnandTech Moderator IEC
 
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Reactions: OTG

24601

Golden Member
Jun 10, 2007
1,683
39
86
I see, this is just plain trolling. Go away.
I see, this is just plain trolling. Go away.

Moderator Edit:
Fighting with and calling out users in a technical forum is not appropriate. If you have an issue with a user, please take it to PM or report the post. Do not derail threads with your bickering. -AnandTech Moderator IEC
 
Last edited by a moderator:

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,362
5,029
136
Thread temporarily locked for cleanup. Thread reopened. AnandTech moderator IEC.
 
Last edited:

Artorias

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2014
2,134
1,411
136
I bit the bullet and got a 1080Ti Strix for $1059CAD(before taxes) at Memory Express, I got one of the last few they had in stock before they raised the price another $50.

I paid $100 more now than if I would have gotten it in December, however, I don't plan to upgrade for years and I plan to put to gaming use now!
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,907
12,376
126
www.anyf.ca

tamz_msc

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2017
3,865
3,729
136
So everything other than Titan Xp is out of stock on nvidia.com/en-us? Even the Titan V?
 

pcslookout

Lifer
Mar 18, 2007
11,944
150
106
That is just insane. I paid $325 for my 1070 1.5 years ago.

I paid $320 for my EVGA Geforce GTX 1070 after everything was said and done. Amazon gave me some money back because of the cooling issue EVGA had. So for the trouble they did that. I didn't even ask for it.

Though I sold that card.

Now on a EVGA Geforce GTX 1080 ti FTW3 glad I upgraded when I did too! $600 well spent!
 

pcslookout

Lifer
Mar 18, 2007
11,944
150
106
That is it I am putting my Geforce 1080 ti on eBay for some insane price and see if it sells. I doubt it will.
 

newrigel

Junior Member
Sep 1, 2008
18
5
76
Not the end, but I believe many people who just want to game, will do so on a console.

Otherwise, until mining profits drop, or some other major event like Bitcoin being shut down in China, this is how it's going to be until then.

When mining took a dip in October/November, many miners here put their cards and rigs up for sale, and people could find in stock graphic cards near MSRP. So the demand rises and falls quickly based on how well mining is going.

That said, Nvidia and AMD will have to increase production somehow, because if every card that rolls out of a factory is immediately sold, it only makes sense for them to do so. At the same time, if they ramp up production and there is a mining dip where miners aren't buying them, they don't want the various retailers to have surplus stock where they have to offer some kind of discount/promotion.

I have to say that I've seen mining in the past make cards a little harder to find, and increase in price. I've never seen anything like this before. It's insanity when over-MSRP cards sell out in minutes.

Why NOT a console? People bitch about the Macintosh being so expensive for gaming when they can get a PC to game on.... why use either to game on? just use a console!
And it cracks me up because steam does the work you don’t even need a fast box anymore!
I’m too busy making $$ to sit around and play a game anyway... never saw the “wow” in gaming.
 
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