rising cost of smartphones?

[Commodus]

To be honest, in a world where we try to lower waste in so many ways, adding chargers to every single phone is kind of weird. Especially now when most phones use the same port (1 of 3 anyway) and people slowly move to inductive charging.

Bundled headphones will slowly go away because people don't want to use wired ones anymore and acceptable BT ones would be too expensive.
But they made a lot of sense even after we moved from custom connectors to 3.5mm jack.
For most people bundled headphones are the only small or microphone-equipped ones they have. And they use it with other devices as well. I use mine with Xbox and for PC calls.

It's definitely a mixed bag. Apple will no doubt pitch the environmental angle, and it'll be right, but this will also be a cost-cutting measure that hurts some users.

 

[thetechfreak]

It's definitely a mixed bag. Apple will no doubt pitch the environmental angle, and it'll be right, but this will also be a cost-cutting measure that hurts some users.

When I buy a phone, I kind of feel as a reset of sorts. A phone is more than a device. So just like a car would have new tires, I would like to have a phne with a new charger included with that phone.

Otherwise it just rises the initial expense while buying the phone. All this is done to make the purchase of the phone as modular as possible and make more profits via sale of accessories.

Sent from my vivo 1807 using Tapatalk

 

[piokos]

When I buy a phone, I kind of feel as a reset of sorts. A phone is more than a device. So just like a car would have new tires, I would like to have a phne with a new charger included with that phone.

But what's wrong with the previous charger? Or any charger you have at home? Or do you use just what comes with the phone?

Tires are an fundamental part of a car. They have to match car requirements and so on.

Phone chargers are mostly interchangeable. And less and less people use the one that came bundled.

Otherwise it just rises the initial expense while buying the phone. All this is done to make the purchase of the phone as modular as possible and make more profits via sale of accessories.

No, it's not. You're not forced to buy a charger from the same company that made the phone. They're usually a lot more expensive and pretty generic.
You can get countless cheaper or more functional alternatives.

All chargers and most USB-C cables used in my home are from IKEA. We only use the bundled chargers on vacation (because you shouldn't use USB ports you don't trust - even in a hotel).

 

[ch33zw1z]

Some brands may be able to get away with not including a charger, others may not.

IMXP, 3 iterations of Apple phones all have the same charger: 5s, 6s plus, and now I use an XR. All 3 have the same connector, and all 3 have the same AC/DC converter ratings.

I have a OnePlus 5t for personal use, and another 6t in the house. These also use the same chargers, but different than friends and family members who have an LG or Samsung phone. Sure, *maybe* they all use the USB-C connector, but the power ratings on the converters are quite different.

Overall, I'd say when purchasing a phone for $500+, the charger cost is negligible and should be included with the device. My .02

 

[piokos]

I have a OnePlus 5t for personal use, and another 6t in the house. These also use the same chargers, but different than friends and family members who have an LG or Samsung phone. Sure, *maybe* they all use the USB-C connector, but the power ratings on the converters are quite different.

So they'll just charge slower (or faster). Voltage is part of the base USB standard and all chargers work with all phones - unlike with proprietary connectors in the past.

Overall, I'd say when purchasing a phone for $500+, the charger cost is negligible and should be included with the device. My .02

There's no such thing as "negligible cost" in complex electronic devices. They contain hundreds of cheap elements. Things just add up.

With your logic we could also say that slightly better camera, slightly more scratch-resistant glass or slightly stronger alloy frame is a "negligible cost".
At least the charger is something you can buy/replace yourself.

 

[ch33zw1z]

So they'll just charge slower (or faster). Voltage is part of the base USB standard and all chargers work with all phones - unlike with proprietary connectors in the past.

There's no such thing as "negligible cost" in complex electronic devices. They contain hundreds of cheap elements. Things just add up.

You're not talking about the device itself, you talking about a charger. If the Corp is charging you $25 as part of your $1000 purchase, then it's negligible. That $25 is like just a couple bucks for the Corp to make as well. It's not like the Corp is paying anywhere near that much for a charger.

With your logic we could also say that slightly better camera, slightly more scratch-resistant glass or slightly stronger alloy frame is a "negligible cost".
At least the charger is something you can buy/replace yourself.

My logic had nothing to do with the device itself, or features of the device. So I disagree with what you're saying my logic dictates.

If you don't need the charger, sell it. There's someone out there that needs it.

My original statement in this thread is that the trade war is driving up prices. That's likely why there's an increase like we've seen.

 

[piokos]

You're not talking about the device itself, you talking about a charger. If the Corp is charging you $25 as part of your $1000 purchase, then it's negligible. That $25 is like just a couple bucks for the Corp to make as well. It's not like the Corp is paying anywhere near that much for a charger.

I'm talking about a product, which is quite a bit more than the device itself.

I'm not saying $3 (guess) for a charger is a lot. I'm saying that there are many other ways they could spend that $3 on your phone, that an average consumer will appreciate more. Better screen, better battery, better camera. Everyone has his own needs. But the common property of this things is: you can't upgrade them on your own.

But a bundled charger is just a bundled charger.
If you don't use them, you won't care.
If you use them, you probably have one from your previous phone (it's not like you suddenly lost it). It will work.
And if you like wired chargers because of the very quick charging, you'll probably buy something else anyway, because phones rarely come with a charger that maximizes their charging potential.

Do you know that most mid-range (and above) bicycles come without pedals?
So you're spending $1000+ on a vehicle that you can't use until you buy the missing part (just like you can't use a phone without a charger... at least not for long).
Yes, companies wanted to save those $3. But they could also sell you a bike with a weaker chain or tires.
The reason why it comes without pedals is: almost all cyclist change them anyway.

And today more and more phone users also don't use the bundled charger. So they won't miss it. Of course some, like you, will. But you'll just get used to it.

If you don't need the charger, sell it. There's someone out there that needs it.

Well, if you need a charger - buy it. That's a really weird argument.
It's really easy to buy a charger - it's right there in the store, probably next to the phones.
It's quite hard and costly to sell one. Most people don't. They put it in a drawer and forget. So there it is: their very own $3 of environmental junk.

Also, who will I sell it to in your perfect world, if everyone gets one with the phone?

 

[ch33zw1z]

I'm talking about a product, which is quite a bit more than the device itself.

The debate seemed to be about chargers. I agree, the device is different, but overall the device itself is the bulk of the price

I'm not saying $3 (guess) for a charger is a lot. I'm saying that there are many other ways they could spend that $3 on your phone, that an average consumer will appreciate more. Better screen, better battery, better camera. Everyone has his own needs. But the common property of this things is: you can't upgrade them on your own.

Cool, so you would agree that the bundled charger is likely the best charger for the device, designed to work with that device specifically. And a few bucks for said charger is not really going to play into the big increases in prices we've seen.

I would also disagree any phone maker will be spending the cost of the charger on making the phone "better". That money will just go in their pockets instead, because thats how it works. Cut costs, pocket the money.

But a bundled charger is just a bundled charger.
If you don't use them, you won't care.
If you use them, you probably have one from your previous phone (it's not like you suddenly lost it). It will work.
And if you like wired chargers because of the very quick charging, you'll probably buy something else anyway, because phones rarely come with a charger that maximizes their charging potential.

I won't claim to be some phone guru, but I certainly use the included charger almost always. it's rare for me to use anything else, including a 12v to usb charger in the car. The best charger to use, IMO, is the one that came with the phone, designed to work with the model of phone.

Do you know that most mid-range (and above) bicycles come without pedals?
So you're spending $1000+ on a vehicle that you can't use until you buy the missing part (just like you can't use a phone without a charger... at least not for long).
Yes, companies wanted to save those $3. But they could also sell you a bike with a weaker chain or tires.
The reason why it comes without pedals is: almost all cyclist change them anyway.

I think the disconnect here is that you think most phone users are the type of people who know what they're doing with electronics. I would offer that's simply not true. Go to any big box store and you won't see bikes without pedals. You're comparing people spending thousands on a bike to most people who don't spend that on a bike.

And today more and more phone users also don't use the bundled charger. So they won't miss it. Of course some, like you, will. But you'll just get used to it.

It's not whether I'll miss it or not, my point from the get go was simply that the cost of the charger is negligible to the cost of the device itself. I haven't changed that position, and at your quoted $3, it seems like a no brainer to just include it.

Well, if you need a charger - buy it. That's a really weird argument.

Umm, if you say so. My original post, that you quoted, explains my stance. I've had 3 iterations of Apple phones that use the same charger, output 5v 1A with the same connector. My OnePlus phones don't use that, and the LG or Samsung phones I've looked at don't use the same output on the adapter.

It's really easy to buy a charger - it's right there in the store, probably next to the phones.

That's fine, but by your own "logic", if a charger came with the phone, why would anyone need to purchase another?

It's quite hard and costly to sell one. Most people don't. They put it in a drawer and forget. So there it is: their very own $3 of environmental junk.

Also, who will I sell it to in your perfect world, if everyone gets one with the phone?

See the quote directly above. if stores are selling chargers, then someone is buying a spare charger. With my 20 years in supporting tech, there's one thing that has always held true: anything a customer or user touches will be broken eventually, including phone chargers. I've replaced a handful of laptop chargers and one phone charger this year already simply do to users being negligent.

So, like I said in my original post that you quoted, some companies (like Apple) can probably get away with it since they've standardized it with themselves and they are a huge force in the phone world, but others may not be successful with that. My anecdote was OnePlus. Love the phones, but their "Dash" charger can't be found anywhere. Most people never even heard of them in USA.

 

[MrSquished]

I worked in a bike shop for one season like 7-8 years ago. You'd have to spend 1K+ on a road bike or 1.5K plus on a mountain bike for them to start coming without pedals. Did a quick check on Trek's website and even their second from the top of the line hybrid comes with pedals and that's around $1700. These are bikes the majority of people will never buy.

I don't mind getting an extra small fast charger with my new phone as it lets me stick it in a plug in a different room to just be available, or keep stashed in one of my many bags I grab and head out with. On the other hand down the road I can see myself not caring anymore whether or not a wall wart comes with my new phone then.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I worked in a bike shop for one season like 7-8 years ago. You'd have to spend 1K+ on a road bike or 1.5K plus on a mountain bike for them to start coming without pedals. Did a quick check on Trek's website and even their second from the top of the line hybrid comes with pedals and that's around $1700. These are bikes the majority of people will never buy.

I don't mind getting an extra small fast charger with my new phone as it lets me stick it in a plug in a different room to just be available, or keep stashed in one of my many bags I grab and head out with. On the other hand down the road I can see myself not caring anymore whether or not a wall wart comes with my new phone then.

Yea, I think a company like Apple or Samsung could pull it off since they command so much of the market. I don't think the smaller phone competitors would be as successful, but maybe including the charger would get them more sales My point was that the charger cost is not causing the big increases we've seen. I suspect that's the trade war's fault.

 

[MrSquished]

Yea, I think a company like Apple or Samsung could pull it off since they command so much of the market. I don't think the smaller phone competitors would be as successful, but maybe including the charger would get them more sales My point was that the charger cost is not causing the big increases we've seen. I suspect that's the trade war's fault.

I agree. Most likely whatever the wall wart would cost them is now simply being rolled into the profit of the device.

 

[Ranjen617]

I just paid $1300 for a Note20 Ultra. Last phone was half this price being a Note 4. Prices to me are just way too high.

 

[Hulk]

You're paying extra to impress others with the latest and greatest tech. The sad thing is most only use their phones for social networking and texting. I'll stick with my motorola z2 that only cost me $99.

Spot on. I bought my 11 year old daughter an iPhone SE in May. Now her friends have the iPhone 12 so she wants one. I asked her what it does that hers doesn't? After a 5 minute discussion it was decideded that it basically was for meme emogies or whatever. I told her there's probably an app for that, which there is. Then I explained to her that you need a phone to make calls, browse the internet, take pictures/video, and text. Your phone does all that and more.

Manufacturers are working themselves into a hole. Phones today are fast, have great screens and cameras and are pretty durable. Unless your phone breaks there is no reason to buy a new one in my opinion. I will continue to use my Pixel 2 until it dies. I used to upgrade around once a year to get something that was faster and had a better screen. No more.

I don't mind spending $700 on a phone so much if it's once every 5 years.

 

[mindless1]

one thing we miss in this comparison is the video quality. Did they purposely leave out a video comparison? the photos looks great and at times better then the gf1 imo. just watched a video test for the gf1. WOW shaky out of focus not to mention 720p? 720p!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????? how is this even a contest the iphone wins with both hands behind its back.

I stopped watching when I learned what camera he was using. The GF1 was almost $900 when it was new.

Obviously a camera that old was chosen to make a point, while cameras evolved rapidly too. 3-4 years later you could get a 60FPS, 1080p, image stabilized camera for under $150.

Same thing happened to phones, so are phone prices reallly rising? Not necessarily, today you can get a phone that has the features most people use, cheaper than ever. Higher res/larger screen, higher MP camera, faster data rate, faster CPU, more memory, etc., also under $150.

You may need, or just want a higher end phone than that, but if you don't then it doesn't matter how much high end phones cost. Staying a little behind the curve is highly underrated, while always longing for more is usually a sign of some other deficiency in life.

Heh, there are times when I would rather have a good ole flip phone, flip open to talk, flip closed to stop, real buttons and a size that doesn't require wardrobe decisions to have a large enough pocket for it.

 

[mnewsham]

while always longing for more is usually a sign of some other deficiency in life

Or you know, it's a tech hobby like any other.

Do people on the this forum really NEED 5900X/5950X and RTX 3080/3090 or 6800XT/6900XT? Not in the slightest, but I can bet there are dozens of people here with RTX 2080 Supers or similar GPUs that have upgraded, or are waiting to upgrade, even though they COULD wait 3-4 years before upgrading and still get solid gaming performance.


Same exact thing with phones, no one NEEDS the latest greatest most expensive flagships, but if they have the money and they enjoy the hardware, why should it be treated any differently?

 

[mindless1]

^ There are lots of hobbies where you learn a skill, improve at it, or put in time, exercise, build up something custom, travel, etc. It's a pretty lame hobby, even compared to gaming which would justify the higher end video card for good framerates.

If you have the money and want nice things, sure, get whatever you want. A broad market with many offerings is good for everyone, but I treat it differently because it is different than a worthwhile hobby. Picking a nice phone that suits your needs is to me, more like picking the same in shoes. As a hobby, you could do worse but also so much better that it's hardly a justification.

 

[CP5670]

I tend to buy the flagship ones around the time when they are starting to be replaced with the next generation models. My Samsung S10+ was $550 last year (non-carrier). I upgrade the phone every 3 years or so. The only thing I'm really interested in upgrading for is the cameras.

 

[killster1]

Obviously a camera that old was chosen to make a point, while cameras evolved rapidly too. 3-4 years later you could get a 60FPS, 1080p, image stabilized camera for under $150.

Same thing happened to phones, so are phone prices reallly rising? Not necessarily, today you can get a phone that has the features most people use, cheaper than ever. Higher res/larger screen, higher MP camera, faster data rate, faster CPU, more memory, etc., also under $150.

You may need, or just want a higher end phone than that, but if you don't then it doesn't matter how much high end phones cost. Staying a little behind the curve is highly underrated, while always longing for more is usually a sign of some other deficiency in life.

Heh, there are times when I would rather have a good ole flip phone, flip open to talk, flip closed to stop, real buttons and a size that doesn't require wardrobe decisions to have a large enough pocket for it.

so which phone would you recommend in the 150$ range. the galaxy s9 is the closest id prob get with it being 200 USED, it is decent compact and good enough to use but always better photos are appreciated (at least i go on exciting vacations i want to keep the memories forever)

I tend to buy the flagship ones around the time when they are starting to be replaced with the next generation models. My Samsung S10+ was $550 last year (non-carrier). I upgrade the phone every 3 years or so. The only thing I'm really interested in upgrading for is the cameras.

the galaxy s20 came out this year on march 6 but you bought your s10+ last year when new model was coming out? the note 10? i bought a 512gb s10+ 2019 September for 350 with a tiny crack. then i got a unlocked 512gb s20+ for 730 brand new this year but i forget when or why i even got it anyway i use both phones so one will always have a charge and be ready. The cameras are the easy reason to purchase a new phone, sure the pixel 2 can take some decent photos but wouldnt you rather have the video in3x zoom 4k hdr to enjoy? or 1080p?

 

[mindless1]

^ I would bring a travel camera on vacation, not just for photo quality but for division of risk, loss, battery consumption. Plus, things I keep on my phone mSD card, I need on it, not wanting to swap it out for more storage for things like high-res video like I'd do with a camera.

 

[killster1]

^ I would bring a travel camera on vacation, not just for photo quality but for division of risk, loss, battery consumption. Plus, things I keep on my phone mSD card, I need on it, not wanting to swap it out for more storage for things like high-res video like I'd do with a camera.

bringing a "travel" camera with you is not always a option for many reasons, i have a water proof dslr but i still would rather not travel with a large camera that i have to worry about people stealing. YOu forgot to mention what awesome phone you would recommend for 150$. i have no idea what you are talking about keep things on your phone msd card etc? my phone is 512gb plus a 512gb sd card i never run out of space on either storage.

 

[CP5670]

the galaxy s20 came out this year on march 6 but you bought your s10+ last year when new model was coming out? the note 10? i bought a 512gb s10+ 2019 September for 350 with a tiny crack. then i got a unlocked 512gb s20+ for 730 brand new this year but i forget when or why i even got it anyway i use both phones so one will always have a charge and be ready. The cameras are the easy reason to purchase a new phone, sure the pixel 2 can take some decent photos but wouldnt you rather have the video in3x zoom 4k hdr to enjoy? or 1080p?

That's a pretty good deal. I got mine around the end of last year, when news of the S20 models had started to come out. I take a mirrorless camera for most vacations or events, but it's not always convenient to bring with me and I like to have a good phone camera as well.

 

[mindless1]

bringing a "travel" camera with you is not always a option for many reasons, i have a water proof dslr but i still would rather not travel with a large camera that i have to worry about people stealing. YOu forgot to mention what awesome phone you would recommend for 150$. i have no idea what you are talking about keep things on your phone msd card etc? my phone is 512gb plus a 512gb sd card i never run out of space on either storage.

I meant travel camera as-in "travel camera", that type which is often small enough that it doesn't need as large a pocket as a phone does.

I did not forget to mention a phone, that is highly subjective, is why there are so many models out there including in the sub $200 space. I'm sure there are dozens of budget phone shootout reviews every quarter to compare the latest offerings, then pick what is most important to you.

I don't want things left on phone internal memory that aren't phone exclusive, especially if it is being used for many functions (like taking pictures) instead of just as a phone, which increases the risk of damage, then the files are lost unless you pay for data recovery.

 

[killster1]

I meant travel camera as-in "travel camera", that type which is often small enough that it doesn't need as large a pocket as a phone does.

I did not forget to mention a phone, that is highly subjective, is why there are so many models out there including in the sub $200 space. I'm sure there are dozens of budget phone shootout reviews every quarter to compare the latest offerings, then pick what is most important to you.

I don't want things left on phone internal memory that aren't phone exclusive, especially if it is being used for many functions (like taking pictures) instead of just as a phone, which increases the risk of damage, then the files are lost unless you pay for data recovery.

well imo there isnt a phone i would want to use for 150$, a travel camera that is smaller then a phone but better quality? ill need to know about that too! haaa my phone wont do a lot of the photo functions with out using internal memory (since memory cards are to slow, i just take the photos on the phone then duplicate them to the memory card then after they are transferred to a pc or das / nas i can delete them.

 

[balloonshark]

You can find cheap motorolas but unless something has changed their cameras aren't that great. I paid $100 for a moto z2 force that has 4GB ram and a 2560x1440 display. It's a good phone and it's more phone than I need. I didn't buy it for its camera though.

 

[Harry_Wild]

I personal think iPhones now are a status symbol more then the traditional car symbol! Plus, it can do a lot of stuff on it and every year they add a few more items. The cameras get upgraded too. You get front and rear cameras. The front camera is becoming even more important for videos and social media.