Rittenhouse verdict poll

[UNCjigga]

I think the people vilifying KR are misguided. Sure, he might be a shitty human being who killed 2 people who didn’t deserve to die. But he had his day in court, and he prevailed. More to the point, he’s still basically a kid and hopefully he learns to avoid putting himself in similar situations. Angry that he’s associating with Proud Boys and Fucker Failson? That’s his prerogative. If I were him, I certainly wouldn’t want my life to be defined by one shitty night in Kenosha, nor would I build my “brand” around it.

If you’re going to be angry at something, be angry with those who perpetuate our shitty gun culture, allowing 17 year old kids to worship at the altar of AR-15. Be very angry with the politicians looking to cash in over the verdict with the instant donor emails (yes, Dems too—I got like 3 emails within the first hour of the verdict.) Be angry with the right wing fear machine that’s done nothing but turn neighbor against neighbor and inspire someone like Kyle to defend a used car lot.

Kyle Rittenhouse isn’t the personification of this evil. He’s just a consequence. There are tens of thousands more like him just waiting to “happen”.

 

[sportage]

Well, the far looney righties will cuddle up to this kid as a hero and as some poster child to be praised and worshiped, however I think for them this will backfire. As time goes on even the far right looney righties will start asking themselves if this is such a good idea to allow this kid inside and to give him all this attention? Eventually realizing that Rittenhouse is a big nothing, and offers nothing, and realistically just a big pathetic loser and nothing more, and thus even the looneys will begin to smell a looney and a loser. And that will be a pretty major awakening... for a looney. But hey.... that won't stop Donald Trump from inviting the kid to his rally's and showing him off to the crowd as some anointed savior of the second amendment.

 

[MrSquished]

I think the people vilifying KR are misguided. Sure, he might be a shitty human being who killed 2 people who didn’t deserve to die. But he had his day in court, and he prevailed. More to the point, he’s still basically a kid and hopefully he learns to avoid putting himself in similar situations. Angry that he’s associating with Proud Boys and Fucker Failson? That’s his prerogative. If I were him, I certainly wouldn’t want my life to be defined by one shitty night in Kenosha, nor would I build my “brand” around it.

If you’re going to be angry at something, be angry with those who perpetuate our shitty gun culture, allowing 17 year old kids to worship at the altar of AR-15. Be very angry with the politicians looking to cash in over the verdict with the instant donor emails (yes, Dems too—I got like 3 emails within the first hour of the verdict.) Be angry with the right wing fear machine that’s done nothing but turn neighbor against neighbor and inspire someone like Kyle to defend a used car lot.

Kyle Rittenhouse isn’t the personification of this evil. He’s just a consequence. There are tens of thousands more like him just waiting to “happen”.

He is a sociopath. He posted about wishing he had a gun (to shoot protestors) and beat up a girl shortly before the Kenosha incident. He is no victim.

 

[Pohemi]

He is a sociopath. He posted about wishing he had a gun (to shoot protestors) and beat up a girl shortly before the Kenosha incident. He is no victim.

I agree that he is no "victim", but I also agree that he isn't the beginning and end of the problem.

He is the end result of the culture in the US where millions of shitheads believe that he (and others like him) are entirely justified in killing people if/when they happen to be on the opposite end of the political spectrum.

A lot of background history and old laws need to change (or be better-written) to prevent this kind of situation and legal outcome in the future. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[MrSquished]

I agree that he is no "victim", but I also agree that he isn't the beginning and end of the problem.

He is the end result of the culture in the US where millions of shitheads believe that he (and others like him) are entirely justified in killing people if/when they happen to be on the opposite end of the political spectrum.

A lot of background history and old laws need to change (or be better-written) to prevent this kind of situation and legal outcome in the future. I'm not holding my breath.

I agree. He is a product of the horrific conservative movement. But definitely no victim. He has built in sociopathic tendencies that will now only get exacerbated.

 

[Sunburn74]

While I agree with it in principle, seems like a nightmare to enforce, trying to decide not only whether one was threatened, but if he had a viable retreat.
Of course, we could just ban people from walking around open carrying AR15s, but that would be too simple and effective.

All you need juries to weigh is the avoidability of the situation and not whether someone had a duty to retreat or if the force was reasonable and etc. That's what the law should focus on as opposed to things like duty to retreat or reasonable force and etc.

 

[zinfamous]

You blame everyone except the guys that kicked off the entire shit show.

What are you talking about? We clearly blame the cops and the fascist GOP that empowers them to keep murdering people.

How is it that you can possibly think anyone else is responsible for this shit show? You do have eyes, right?

 

[Ajay]

He is a product of the horrific conservative movement.

And 20 years of war in the Middle East. We overcompensated for the errors of treating Soldiers in Vietnam like the enemy to a culture of the warrior hero. All those warrior hero's are carrying military assault weapons - now the symbol of manliness and bravery to a generation of young men. As so often, what can go wrong will. The US gun manufactures didn't miss a beat in promoting this as well.

 

[NWRMidnight]

Guess no blame at all on the rioters who were the ones that really started this 'shitshow'....if they showed up to just peacefully protest and not loot or riot, none of this would have ever happened...but we know that was never really a possibility. It also funny that there is no mention that they were ones out there to start trouble and destroy property even before KR showed up.

And I guess there is no blame for the individuals who actually instigated the attacks on KR...on their own free will, they tried to kick him, strike him in the head with a skate board and point a gun at him....how different would the night have been if those things that KR did not initiate did not happen? There were others out there with rifles to protect businesses and strange how the ones who were not assaulted did not shoot anyone.

And lastly, since plenty of predictions of KR's future were made here, so one has to wonder what future would have awaited those who attacked KR had they chose not to assault him even though we will never know because they choose poorly...

Maybe you should actually quote my whole post and read it, as the majority of your bitch here had already been covered in the very post you so conveniently removed except the very first sentence.. aka you cherry picked... If it was the rioters who started the shit show, why where the ONLY people shot where those by KR? I am not going to repeat anything else I already said in the very post you cherry picked one sentence from.. Maybe you should go back and read it and stop being a cherry picking chump!

 

[NWRMidnight]

They lost the right not to be gunned down when they attacked KR first...Not sure why it so hard to understand that...

And it is okay to shame KR??? He was the one who was attacked first which makes him a victim....But I got it now...

They went after him AFTER KR shot and killed an unarmed person.. take your fucking blinders off! I guess in your book, you are supposed to just stand there while an unarmed man is killed.... But this has already been covered..

 

[himkhan]

What are you talking about? We clearly blame the cops and the fascist GOP that empowers them to keep murdering people.

How is it that you can possibly think anyone else is responsible for this shit show? You do have eyes, right?

I think he is referring to Ivan Harrison Hunter or Steven Carrillo. Both Boogaloo Bois both guilty of shooting up police stations and trying their best to be the sparks that start these riots. He refuses to acknowledge how inconvenient their crimes are to his agenda. Hunter shooting up cop shops and yelling Justice for Floyd and Justice for Jacob!!! These facts really don't jive with his act here.

How about Carrillo who has taken it a step further and is actually executing cops and trying to blame it on BLM. I wonder how many other cops he killed before he got caught.

THESE are your White Nationalists. These fine people who think they are so many more than there actually are.

 

[sandorski]

Those who think that They are the holders of Virtue, and the Others are not, tend to find that sufficient grounds to commit atrocity. Their Moral Compass always points in the direction They prefer it to. They are the "Patriots" and "Defenders of all [Cultural Virtue]", the Other(s) are not. Given this "truth", any action They take is Righteous in defense of [Society/Social Order]. This is where Their arrogance and sense of Superiority manifest themselves.

To most of us this appears as Hypocrisy/Inconsistency/etc, but to them it makes perfect sense. Until they can recognize their proverbial Sin of Pride/Arrogance they will become more Anti-Democratic and Violent. It is a logical path that has been followed many times before and will be again, if allowed.

 

[ivwshane]

Those who think that They are the holders of Virtue, and the Others are not, tend to find that sufficient grounds to commit atrocity. Their Moral Compass always points in the direction They prefer it to. They are the "Patriots" and "Defenders of all [Cultural Virtue]", the Other(s) are not. Given this "truth", any action They take is Righteous in defense of [Society/Social Order]. This is where Their arrogance and sense of Superiority manifest themselves.

To most of us this appears as Hypocrisy/Inconsistency/etc, but to them it makes perfect sense. Until they can recognize their proverbial Sin of Pride/Arrogance they will become more Anti-Democratic and Violent. It is a logical path that has been followed many times before and will be again, if allowed.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again; tyranny will come from those carrying a gun and a Bible who wrap themselves in a flag.

So far they’ve excused money in politics, politicizing the Justice and judicial system, human rights violations, corruption by public officials, the spreading of misinformation and propaganda, foreign influence in our elections, and many more offenses that harm our democracy.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Well, the far looney righties will cuddle up to this kid as a hero and as some poster child to be praised and worshiped, however I think for them this will backfire. As time goes on even the far right looney righties will start asking themselves if this is such a good idea to allow this kid inside and to give him all this attention? Eventually realizing that Rittenhouse is a big nothing, and offers nothing, and realistically just a big pathetic loser and nothing more, and thus even the looneys will begin to smell a looney and a loser. And that will be a pretty major awakening... for a looney. But hey.... that won't stop Donald Trump from inviting the kid to his rally's and showing him off to the crowd as some anointed savior of the second amendment.

I think the Democrats embracing Identity Politics to an extreme will backfire on them far more than Republicans embracing a kid who killed (according to various news reports) a convicted pedophile that had been chasing him. (Ironically, now the Left is standing up for a pedophile.) The Democrats will double down on their claims that white supremacy and racism are everywhere, chasing away working class white people (who do not feel privileged) and many others. It already cost them a gubernatorial election in a state that voted against Trump. As a result, the Democrats are liable to get thumped in the 2022 elections and beaten in the 2024 election. The only thing that could possibly save them would be if Trump ran for president in 2024, but he could win reelection as a result of the public's newfound dislike for the Democrats in spite of his odiousness.

If as a result of the Rittenhouse verdict, BLM riots occur, the Democrats would be in even bigger trouble as the public would identify them as being soft on crime and supporting the people engaging in the arson, rioting, and looting unless they crack down on it which would cost them votes from the Far Left. It could really bury them.

 

[fskimospy]

I think the Democrats embracing Identity Politics to an extreme will backfire on them far more than Republicans embracing a kid who killed (according to various news reports) a convicted pedophile that had been chasing him. (Ironically, now the Left is standing up for a pedophile.) The Democrats will double down on their claims that white supremacy and racism are everywhere, chasing away working class white people (who do not feel privileged) and many others. It already cost them a gubernatorial election in a state that voted against Trump. As a result, the Democrats are liable to get thumped in the 2022 elections and beaten in the 2024 election. The only thing that could possibly save them would be if Trump ran for president in 2024, but he could win reelection as a result of the public's newfound dislike for the Democrats in spite of his odiousness.

If as a result of the Rittenhouse verdict, BLM riots occur, the Democrats would be in even bigger trouble as the public would identify them as being soft on crime and supporting the people engaging in the arson, rioting, and looting unless they crack down on it which would cost them votes from the Far Left. It could really bury them.

One thing I’ve never understood is the claim that because voters dislike identity politics that they would vote for Republicans, who literally run on 100% identity politics.

I think the fundamental point that democrats take unpopular cultural positions is true, but we have this weird cultural blind spot where it’s not identity politics if you’re trying to appeal to white Christian identity.

 

[mikeymikec]

When I think of KR these days, I can't help but by reminded of English Bob:

Extra weird to see Americans defending him.

 

[TheVrolok]

One thing I’ve never understood is the claim that because voters dislike identity politics that they would vote for Republicans, who literally run on 100% identity politics.

I think the fundamental point that democrats take unpopular cultural positions is true, but we have this weird cultural blind spot where it’s not identity politics if you’re trying to appeal to white Christian identity.

This is the core of their psychology, they can literally not see outside of themselves. It's a physical inability which is why it will never get better.

 

[Ajay]

When I think of KR these days, I can't help but by reminded of English Bob:

Extra weird to see Americans defending him.

Yes it is. Somehow he is both a victim and a hero in certain people minds. Various states interpretations of the second amendment, with helpful license from SCOTUS, has left us in a strange place.

 

[pcgeek11]

All those warrior hero's are carrying military assault weapons - now the symbol of manliness and bravery to a generation of young men.

Not the same thing. The AR15 is simply a lightweight simiautomatic rifle. The M4 Assault Rifle can be Sngle Shot semiautomatic, Burst Shot semiautomatic or Fully Automatic.

[What’s the Difference?]: AR-15 vs M4

Want to know the difference between the AR15 for civilians and the military M4? We cover that plus a little history, similarities, and the best for you.

www.pewpewtactical.com

Simply put, the difference between the two is the M4 has either a full-auto or burst fire mode while the AR-15 does not. There are also minor differences such as barrel length and attachments, but these do not fundamentally affect the rifle.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Nullification of common law (and now elections) is a conservative feature.

There is no more basic human right than the right to defend yourself.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

If the right wing wants to support vigilantes who fantasize on social media about having guns to shoot people they don't like, and then go insert themselves in situations to perform extra judicial killings, I now fully support armed liberals shooting up stop the steal pro Trump rallies where these people are trying to overthrow democracy. That is sedition. I couldn't think of a better reason to open fire on people, overthrowing democracy is a big deal to reasonable people. Shoot without mercy.

We already knew you felt this way, it's obvious.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

I thought personal attacks weren't allowed in PN anymore???

Good luck with that.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

I don't frequent PN often...now I remember why....

But getting back to my question, are they allowed again? or is attacking a poster here what happens when you can't or don't want to respond to the points that were raised?

In case you missed them:

1. Are the rioters to blame first? since they were there to start trouble and destroy property even before KR showed up. If they didn't show up, KR wouldn't have been there.
2. Why is there no blame here on the 3 individuals who attacked KR first? If you respond saying KR shouldn't have been there, then why should these rioters who only had one purpose be there?
3. Do you dispute fact that KR did not instigate any of the contact with the 3 who attacked him? He is even shown running away and only defended himself after he was kicked in the head, attacked with a skate board and had a gun pointed at him.

If you have don't have any valid response, I guess you can go ahead and attack me again....

They also ignore all the footage of the rioters and arsonists that was featured in the multiple videos shown in the trial. The destroyed businesses, the looting, the mob mentality of the rioters, the violence clearly shown against the police and other authorities and pretend they were either "peaceful protesters" or fake proud boy types.

 

[HomerJS]

There is no more basic human right than the right to defend yourself.

Too bad Ahmed Arbury didn't have that basic right

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Too bad Ahmed Arbury didn't have that basic right

He had it, was he carrying a gun when he was murdered ? Maybe he should have been.