RMA Abuse.

[Googer]

sorry for the typeo= species, as in Darwin. not Cooking Spices
you mispelled my mispelling!

 

[Zebo]

Hey Zebo, you know how we have retail and oem models of hardware, and the oems come with less extras and a smaller warranty? Well, what if a new model type was created, called WOW. Without Warranty. lol. Basically all you'd get with the barebone item with a guarantee that it wasn't DOA, but after that, you're completely on your own. If it was something like a motherboard, they could hack $20 off the price or something. That'd be interesting.
------------------------
I wish. All these collective things like insurance and warranties, etc are communist. Spreading risk and cost around to many for the needs of a few.

 

[MadMan2k]

The motherboard I got (DFI LP UT) functioned fine as far as the system running goes, but the temperature sensors were bad, and after emailing DFI support, they thought I should send it back to the place of purchase (newegg), which I did.

It also didn't let my a64 3000+ run at more than 2.2GHz... couldn't even hit 2.2 after BIOS update either... hope the new one is better.

 

[Zebo]

In a way RMAers are freedom fighters without even knowing it. If they RMA enough the communist/collective warranty system will disappear as it should.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: MadMan2k
The motherboard I got (DFI LP UT) functioned fine as far as the system running goes, but the temperature sensors were bad, and after emailing DFI support, they thought I should send it back to the place of purchase (newegg), which I did.

It also didn't let my a64 3000+ run at more than 2.2GHz... couldn't even hit 2.2 after BIOS update either... hope the new one is better.

That is a sign of a bad RMA policy. You are screwed if you buy a DFI board and get one from NewEgg.com after thier (newegg) policy change tword motherboards.

I have had great experiences with Pacific Digital and Samsung. Both Companies were extremely easy to deal with. In the past Maxtor was too, but I think they have changed and I find them tough to deal with now.

 

[jterrell]

A few broad points.

1. Newegg is selling various revisions of mobo's. They generally don't know even know which one they will ship you when you order. We have heard they SUGGEST a customer RMA the board if they get an older revision. Obviously the RMA's on mobo's were getting out of hand so they stopped it. I am fairly certian it also has to do with stopping it just before the NFORCE 4 boards come in stock. In that case my advice is to stop buying mobo's at newegg. If I wanted to deal with a Taiwanese company for RMA issues I wouldn't order from Newegg. If Newegg instituted a Monarch policy of testing the mobo and cpu (as well as flashing to the leatest BIOS) there would be less RMA's.

2. Many of the mobo's are rated by overclockability and even advertise those features. RMA'ing a board that claims to overclock because it hosed up during a moderate OC isn't abuse IMO. The mobo's also have varying results with certian memory, certian cpu's, certian bioses and just about every other possibility. Lots of variables involved that could cause a board to generally suck for someone who has done some research but isn't an expert on the current subject matter.

3. The supposed education repeatedly discussed is pretty sad. A guy gets an aol webpage then considers himself an authority on the subject? Please. Try running your own Apache web server on a BSD box before lamenting the stupification of the masses. It is advisable to use mechbgon's useful guide for 1st time or 1st in long time builders. Pass along what you know so others benefit don't insult those who haven't been educated yet.

4. I have never RMA'd a single pc-related item. I also have little patience with those who talk down to others. There are a ton of reasons to RMA a mobo and each individual has to decide for themselves what their threshold is. For me if I bought a board and it didn't work with my fairly common big name memory, cpu and vid card I'd seriously consider RMA'ing it. It IS their responsibility to make sure that it works with those items as that is exactly what it is created and purchased for. Not as a stand alone work of art to admire.

 

[rcomo]

I just RMA'd my WD 80g HD. I am very happy with the system.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: jterrell
A few broad points.

1. Newegg is selling various revisions of mobo's. They generally don't know even know which one they will ship you when you order. We have heard they SUGGEST a customer RMA the board if they get an older revision. Obviously the RMA's on mobo's were getting out of hand so they stopped it. I am fairly certian it also has to do with stopping it just before the NFORCE 4 boards come in stock. In that case my advice is to stop buying mobo's at newegg. If I wanted to deal with a Taiwanese company for RMA issues I wouldn't order from Newegg. If Newegg instituted a Monarch policy of testing the mobo and cpu (as well as flashing to the leatest BIOS) there would be less RMA's.

2. Many of the mobo's are rated by overclockability and even advertise those features. RMA'ing a board that claims to overclock because it hosed up during a moderate OC isn't abuse IMO. The mobo's also have varying results with certian memory, certian cpu's, certian bioses and just about every other possibility. Lots of variables involved that could cause a board to generally suck for someone who has done some research but isn't an expert on the current subject matter.

3. The supposed education repeatedly discussed is pretty sad. A guy gets an aol webpage then considers himself an authority on the subject? Please. Try running your own Apache web server on a BSD box before lamenting the stupification of the masses. It is advisable to use mechbgon's useful guide for 1st time or 1st in long time builders. Pass along what you know so others benefit don't insult those who haven't been educated yet.

4. I have never RMA'd a single pc-related item. I also have little patience with those who talk down to others. There are a ton of reasons to RMA a mobo and each individual has to decide for themselves what their threshold is. For me if I bought a board and it didn't work with my fairly common big name memory, cpu and vid card I'd seriously consider RMA'ing it. It IS their responsibility to make sure that it works with those items as that is exactly what it is created and purchased for. Not as a stand alone work of art to admire.

Hi, Ram is a big compatability problem. For example take a look at this chart
http://www20.tomshardware.com/...memory_modules-24.html

I think toms knows how to assemlbe a comp. Fortunatly, as many users here have, they have various modules, mobos, chips to find the exact faulty/incompatable part and eliminate it.

Does the average Joe? Or does he RMA board, then maybe another, Then CPU, then finally he hits on the RAM before his issues are resolved. IMO that's what the majority of RMA's are for. Not willful distruction or OCing as the OP likes to paint with broad strokes.

 

[tart666]

Originally posted by: TimJ

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Number of RMA abusers who will cease their abuse as a result of this thread?

If anything it will inspire more people to RMA stuff they broke.

It appears that if I am not RMA'ing, I am not getting my money's worth. Considering the RMA abuse is built into the price now... Hmm, what can I rma? I think my HD seeks too loud again! haha, take that maxtor!

 

[Zebo]

It appears that if I am not RMA'ing, I am not getting my money's worth = exactly

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: rcomo
I just RMA'd my WD 80g HD. I am very happy with the system.

Nice new system, I am getting almost the same one: With a gigabyte board and ballistix PC4000 (or maybe corsair) I already Purchased a 7k250 200gb. So the WD is not on my list.
And I may end up wating untill SSE3 is avavlble for A64@90nm

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: tart666

Originally posted by: TimJ

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Number of RMA abusers who will cease their abuse as a result of this thread?

If anything it will inspire more people to RMA stuff they broke.

It appears that if I am not RMA'ing, I am not getting my money's worth. Considering the RMA abuse is built into the price now... Hmm, what can I rma? I think my HD seeks too loud again! haha, take that maxtor!

You are missing the point, If it was not we would all be paying less. Your illegitamate RMA costs the next guy money and eventuly comes back around to hurt you.

 

[SickBeast]

If something goes wrong you have every right to RMA it and you shoudn't feel guilty about it.

The manufacturers set aside a percentage of their budget for RMAs. The cost to produce most computer components is next to nothing.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
If something goes wrong you have every right to RMA it and you shoudn't feel guilty about it.

The manufacturers set aside a percentage of their budget for RMAs. The cost to produce most computer components is next to nothing.

Yes you do have a right to an RMA, but as long as it was not your fault that it did not quit working because of Running the product out of spceification (cpu, ram, video, etc) .

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: SickBeast
If something goes wrong you have every right to RMA it and you shoudn't feel guilty about it.

The manufacturers set aside a percentage of their budget for RMAs. The cost to produce most computer components is next to nothing.

Yes you do have a right to an RMA, but as long as it was not your fault that it did not quit working. I.E. Running the product (cpu, ram, video, etc) out of spceification.

I don't see overclocking the CPU at default voltage as being a problem. It will probably run cooler than it would at default speed in a system running in the Sahara or something.

The only way to fry something by overclocking is by applying too much voltage and not enough cooling. If you know what you're doing your chip will last well beyond the warranty period, overclocked or not.

Videocard overclocking is similar. By default you can't raise the voltage, so the risk of damage to the card is extremely minimal. Physical voltmods can be easily detected by the manufacturer.

I don't know why you have your panties all in a bunch. Like I said, a CPU costs maybe 25 cents to produce. If the hardware manufacturers were really concerned about this, they would lock their CPUs so that overclocking was impossible (à la intel multiplier lock, only they could lock the FSB as well).

AMD, intel, ATi, and nVidia are all still in business and their products are very affordable. I don't quite understand your grave concern here.

 

[Googer]

"don't know why you have your panties all in a bunch. Like I said, a CPU costs maybe 25 cents to produce. If the hardware manufacturers were really concerned about this, they would lock their CPUs so that overclocking was impossible (à la intel multiplier lock, only they could lock the FSB as well)".

"The only way to fry something by overclocking is by applying too much voltage and not enough cooling. If you know what you're doing your chip will last well beyond the warranty period, overclocked or not. "

This post is not about how much things cost to manufacture but what it costs to bring to market. You are being narrow minded, It costs far more than a quater to make a cpu, Material Costs alone are higher than 25¢. What you are missing here are manufacturing costs, it takes a minimum of 30 days and hundereds of people to produce a single batch of chips and dont forget those engineers they requre a salary and dont work for free. Secretarys, janators, and utilities need also to be paid for. This is why we pay so much for technology. And replacement costs are high too.

[*]Cooling, I can remove the heatsink from my PIII Tualatin and not have to worry about any kind of heat damage at all. PERIOD. Since it has an autoshutdown feature should it get over 200° or so.
*Don't e-mail me. I do have one on (heatsink) - Swiftech and an 8,000rpm Delta or 7k YS tech. I change them out during the summer since the Delta sounds like a Freight Train being picked up by a tornado.

[*]Overclocking, or running a part outside of its specification does and can damage it no matter what voltage you
decide to use. Trust me, you dont seem to TRUELY know what you are talking about.

"Videocard overclocking is similar. By default you can't raise the voltage, so the risk of damage to the card is extremely minimal. Physical voltmods can be easily detected by the manufacturer."



[*]Not true i have totaly destroied video cards by oveclocking them (2 of them to be exact) and only changing the speed of the GPU via the nVIDIA Driver (and I repeat GPU only with no votage changes). And no I did not RMA them.


Yes, IT companies may be profitable but Why not pay $300 instead of $400 for somthing. Aperantly Your Economic knowledge is not as good as your PC knoledge. Fraudulant RMA's dont Cost those companies you listed money, it costs us cash.



DISCLAIMER: I have no vested interest in a company that sells or manufatures IT equiptment.
Education is cheap, ignorance is expensive.

Edited for sentance structure, grammer, and some spelling. @2:02pm on 12-4-04

 

[dszd0g]

Originally posted by: Farmer
It is necessary to use silicon in creating PCBs; it is thus also necessary to account for RMA fraud in creating PCBs.

Printed Circuit Boards are typically made of layers of copper separated by epoxy fiberglass. The chips on the board typically use silicon.

I would also like to see numbers as to how RMA fraud actually affects costs. The price is generally determines based on the profit at the given price. If the company feels they can sell 1 million at $70 for $20 profit, or they can sell 1.8 million at $60 for $12 profit (more quantity means more economy of scale on most items), they will chose to sell the 1.8 million at $60. There would be some economy of scale with RMAs (cheaper to have an RMA department then 1 person doing RMAs part time and the overall cost of the part to replace is less), but most of the cost would be per item. Therefore, it does make sense that RMA cost would move the profit-price point towards a higher cost. This still does not indicate that RMA fraud is any significant percentage of RMAs. I would be surprised that it would be very high except for specific items like maybe OC rated parts that some computer stores sell.

[Edit: All that said, I do agree that returning an item that was damaged by the user is not the moral thing to do.]

 

[Googer]

Material Cost is always the cheapest expence, engineering, tool cost and maintinence, design, labor, administrative, all acount for the bulk expenece of production.
Please lets not refer to or foucus on a perticular item (cpu, pcb, gpu, ram.) in this thread, instead lets foucus on how Fraud costs all of us hard earend cash.

Thanks.

 

[Googer]

Companies are NOT loosing money Fraudulant on RMA's, you and I are the real loosers. However they DO LOOSE MONEY on RMA's caused by manufactureing defects. There is a huge differance here.

 

[imported_Phil]

Originally posted by: magomago
actually i would agree with him. I wish there would be a way for companies to see if something was overclocked at all so they could deny the RMA because I know people who RMA cards and processors just because they won't OVERCLOCK ENOUGH! ITs ridiculous if you ask me.

Wanna overlock? Go ahead~ ehll I do it. But you should not get an RMA out of a bad overclock, or if you were too damn stupid and fvscked it up.

Damned right. :thumbsup:

 

[tart666]

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: tart666

Originally posted by: TimJ

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Number of RMA abusers who will cease their abuse as a result of this thread?

If anything it will inspire more people to RMA stuff they broke.

It appears that if I am not RMA'ing, I am not getting my money's worth. Considering the RMA abuse is built into the price now... Hmm, what can I rma? I think my HD seeks too loud again! haha, take that maxtor!

You are missing the point, If it was not we would all be paying less. Your illegitamate RMA costs the next guy money and eventuly comes back around to hurt you.

I think you are missing the point. The next guy's illegitimate RMA has already cost me, so now I want to get something for it.

 

[Ka0t1x]

If something of mine is under warranty and I believe is causing me problems, I RMA it, when you buy a product you also pay for a warranty, it's part of the whole buying thing. If YOU don't like it, I suggest you get out of computers. EVERYONE THAT RMA's HAS TO GO THROUGH THE SAME PROCESS, JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.


This kid needs to take his meds and be more patient.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: Ka0t1x
If something of mine is under warranty and I believe is causing me problems, I RMA it, when you buy a product you also pay for a warranty, it's part of the whole buying thing. If YOU don't like it, I suggest you get out of computers. EVERYONE THAT RMA's HAS TO GO THROUGH THE SAME PROCESS, JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.


This kid needs to take his meds and be more patient.

Apparently, you have not read this whole thread. So for those of you too lazy to read, I will say I again for the 5th+ time RMA's are ok I have used them for an IDE hard drive and a SCSI Controler that did not have a BIOS installed. What is not ok is to take advantage of the system, intentionally destroy something and then RMA it saying that it just broke and you dont know why. That is fraud. Its costs Consumers money.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: tart666

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: tart666

Originally posted by: TimJ

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Number of RMA abusers who will cease their abuse as a result of this thread?

If anything it will inspire more people to RMA stuff they broke.

It appears that if I am not RMA'ing, I am not getting my money's worth. Considering the RMA abuse is built into the price now... Hmm, what can I rma? I think my HD seeks too loud again! haha, take that maxtor!

You are missing the point, If it was not we would all be paying less. Your illegitamate RMA costs the next guy money and eventuly comes back around to hurt you.

I think you are missing the point. The next guy's illegitimate RMA has already cost me, so now I want to get something for it.

Just because the someone else did it, that does not make it right.
Please explain your rationalle a bit more clearly. Since It makes very little sence.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: Dopefiend

Originally posted by: magomago
actually i would agree with him. I wish there would be a way for companies to see if something was overclocked at all so they could deny the RMA because I know people who RMA cards and processors just because they won't OVERCLOCK ENOUGH! ITs ridiculous if you ask me.

Wanna overlock? Go ahead~ ehll I do it. But you should not get an RMA out of a bad overclock, or if you were too damn stupid and fvscked it up.

Damned right. :thumbsup:

They ought to do what Apple (yes Apple) does on all of their Mac's: Attach a security seal to the jumper on the motherboard that allows for overclocking, if that seal is broken the Warrenty is then considerd to be null and void.