RMA approved for $740 store credit. Now what?

[Carfax83]

You and I don't always see eye to eye........but power consumption after taking OC into account usually about 50-75W over 970s; and 980s; its less...

Not according to HardOCP and several other reviewers like Tech Report.

Stock vs stock thats a 100w difference for Crysis 3, and I'm on a UPS..

Drivers seem to be far better side on AMD with the new games that Nvidia; and crossfire and sli have all their own issues; but with 290s crossfire is smoother usually when working. Both have lagged on profiles though got to admit.

If you're referring to Kepler's performance, I don't think thats a driver issue. I think it's just that compute is being used more in the latest games, and AMD was always stronger in compute until Maxwell..

And NVidia is really good about profiles; especially on launch day. My issue is that sometimes they don't work properly, ie flickering..

 

[desprado]

Not according to HardOCP and several other reviewers like Tech Report.

Stock vs stock thats a 100w difference for Crysis 3, and I'm on a UPS..



If you're referring to Kepler's performance, I don't think thats a driver issue. I think it's just that compute is being used more in the latest games, and AMD was always stronger in compute until Maxwell..

And NVidia is really good about profiles; especially on launch day. My issue is that sometimes they don't work properly, ie flickering..

That is the fact.Still AMD has not released any driver or new CF profile for Evolve, Farcry 4 and Dying light.

 

[RussianSensation]

2) Very high driver overhead and CPU scaling issues

You keep repeating this over and over and over but it makes no difference for enthusiast gamers with highly overclocked i5/i7 systems. Do you see 970 SLI beating 295X2 and 980 SLI destroying 295X2? No you don't. Why? Because an overclocked i5/i7 system doesn't align with your theories about CPU overheads and poor DX11 drivers from AMD. It's true that CF has a poor track record for GW titles compared to SLI, and it's also true that 290X CF OC will use way more power than 980 SLI OC. However, you aren't comparing apples to apples at all.

MSI Gaming 290X CF = $560 USD
MSI Gaming 980 SLI = $1100 USD
Almost 2X the price for ~10-15% performance difference on average.

^ It's perfectly fine if YOU are willing to pay $1100 for 980 SLI for 10-15% more performance for XYZ factors, but please stop using the CPU overhead and DX11 poor drivers as some real factor. It doesn't work because that's not what happens in real world gaming on modern Intel systems.

Therefore, your argument about CPU overheads and sub-par DX11 drivers for AMD fall flat in the real world. It's even more amusing considering GCN clawed back performance against Kepler and Maxwell and it's Kepler that's been bombing in DX11 games for 5 months straight now.

I am even giving NV a huge advantage here since I am using data from Sept 27, 2014 reviews, way before AMD's GCN gained performance with Omega drivers, etc.

This high driver overhead only matters for gamers with budget rigs running stock FX8000 or i3s. Again, for high-end Intel PC gaming, for CF or SLI, the driver overhead doesn't matter but you keep parroting it as if it does.

You realize a 290X is just 10% within a 980 now? If driver overhead was such a big deal, 980 would continue to extend its lead in latest modern games over the 290X but the opposite has happened where the lead has narrowed on top end Intel CPUs.

Seriously dude, making statements like AMD has horrible DX11 drivers and massive CPU overhead doesn't align with reality when we pair a high-end AMD and NV card with an overclocked i5/i7. So stop stating this as some gospel when it doesn't matter for most of us.

--

OK if you don't want to buy used cards, then get 980 SLI or EVGA Classified 980 and overclock it to 1.7Ghz.

That is the fact.Still AMD has not released any driver or new CF profile for Evolve, Farcry 4 and Dying light.

^ Those are good arguments why one might prefer SLI over CF if you play these specific titles, esp. if you buy those games for $60 on day 1. I agree with you. :thumbsup:

 

[Carfax83]

Functions just fine since I got them (R290s).

I play at GPU bound settings so fps into the hundreds is not an issue, nor would I feel the CPU overhead.

Some games are inherently CPU bound though, and going multiGPU just amplifies it.

AC Unity is a great example. The game needs a fast CPU to sustain high frame rates. Even at 1440p max settings with FXAA, I'm still somewhat CPU bound. Only by using MSAA or TXAA do I become GPU bound.

Anyway, I don't think 290 or 290x Crossfire would be able to hit and sustain 60 FPS in AC Unity at 1440p, as they are much more CPU bound than NVidia..

You can see for yourself at Computerbase. Look at the CPU benchmarks.

Take a look at recent games (latest is Evolve & BF Hardline), R290/X does damn fine considering the "terrible DX11 overhead" that keeps on getting pushed around like a mantra.

I never said AMD is slow.. In GPU limited scenarios, they are nearly on par with NVidia.. And AMD is really strong in compute, which is helping them against Kepler models.

If you're CPU bound, you need to turn on better IQ settings. There's no games where a modern i5/i7 is not capable of meeting at least 60 fps. You're with 1440p where its 99.9% GPU bound when IQ settings are upped.

Some games are just CPU bound no matter what. AC Unity is the best example of a CPU hungry title, due to the high draw call requirements, and having multiGPU makes it worse.

 

[RussianSensation]

^ Even if 290CF AMD cards were paired with a Skylake-E @ 10Ghz, they would not beat 980 SLI with a Core i7 4930K in AC Unity, and you know why that is - the game heavily favours Maxwell cards. No need to bring up CPU overhead when I already linked above that your theory doesn't work for highly overclocked i5/i7 systems.

It's enough reason to get 970 SLI/980 SLI over 295X2/290X if you play mostly GW titles, enjoy PhysX and your favourite games are AC Unity, Far Cry 4, etc. Since you already told us one of your favourite franchisees is AC and your most anticipated game of 2015 is TW3 a GW title, NO ONE in this thread would oppose your decision of going with NV if you just said you prefer to stick to 970 SLI/980 SLI for those gaming-related reasons.

Instead, you decided to go ahead on a power usage, perf/watt, drivers, and CPU overhead discussion which is just going to create lengthy arguments that won't change your mind. So what's the point other than to start arguments? Again, believe me when I say it that if you state your preference for specific NV games that simply run faster on NV hardware, PC gamers would be A LOT more receptive to your brand preference because that's the most logical argument of all. You buy PC gaming hardware for games and if those specific games run faster on your cards, well the choice is clear.

I remember during the GeForce 6 vs. X800 days, we always used to recommend a gamer look at the games he/she plays and then choose the card he wants because the performance was always so close. If price is NOT a factor for you with 980 SLI over 970 SLI/290X CF, we already know the games you play run better on NV. Therefore, end of the discussion. You already know what you need to do.

Now just choose what 970 or 980 card(s) you want. On that aspect, many of us will do our best to help you pick the best 970/980 card based on what you want.

EVGA has the excellent SSC 980 with 1367mhz Boost, very close to the EVGA Classified and the card goes for $560 or so. IMO, you have enjoyed SLI for years and overall I think you were fairly happy with your 580 SLI, 770 SLI and 970 SLI. There is no way that GM200 will outperform GTX980s @ 1.5Ghz overclocks and you know that. Therefore, best case scenario, you get to ride out with 980 SLI until Pascal but still have awesome performance. Worst case, if you still find the performance unsatisfactory / SLI profiles aren't up to your standards, you can always get GM200. Chances are GM200 won't be exactly cheap at launch but it's still months before GM200 launches by all accounts. If you are going to get new cards, might as well "upgrade" because otherwise you are back to $700 MSI Gaming 970 SLI which is exactly where you were days ago....

 

[WT]

NVidia will get their due, but I don't have time to wait for some infernal class action lawsuit unfortunately..

Wow, talk about a glutton for Nv punishment. You don't sport an Nvidia logo as a tattoo do you ?? Do something about it now !! SMH

Classic case of 'Thank you sir, may I have another ??'

 

[Silverforce11]

Some games are inherently CPU bound though, and going multiGPU just amplifies it.

AC Unity is a great example. The game needs a fast CPU to sustain high frame rates. Even at 1440p max settings with FXAA, I'm still somewhat CPU bound. Only by using MSAA or TXAA do I become GPU bound.

Anyway, I don't think 290 or 290x Crossfire would be able to hit and sustain 60 FPS in AC Unity at 1440p, as they are much more CPU bound than NVidia..

You can see for yourself at Computerbase. Look at the CPU benchmarks.

I never said AMD is slow.. In GPU limited scenarios, they are nearly on par with NVidia.. And AMD is really strong in compute, which is helping them against Kepler models.

Some games are just CPU bound no matter what. AC Unity is the best example of a CPU hungry title, due to the high draw call requirements, and having multiGPU makes it worse.

Actually that CPU bench doesn't show what you think it shows.

Look at the 4770K at 2.5ghz running 4 cores, the R290X and 980 gets EXACTLY the same score.

If AMD's diver overhead is much worse, it must require faster CPU clock speed to match the 980 result, but it's the same.

Because ACU is a GameWorks title, the 980 is about 20-25% faster then the R290X (which tops out at ~43 fps) so it ends up faster at normal CPU speeds.

But ultimately if you play mostly GameWorks titles, then sure, its best to go with NV. But your options are limited. You don't want to waste much $ because you want Titan X, anything now is a temporary solution. So go for the cheapest bang for buck that you can resell without losing a massive premium.

 

[Erenhardt]

AC Unity is a great example... of a turd. Quit it. It is way worse than the Watch Doge, and that says a lot.

Anyone who tries to make a point using Game(barely)Works game as an example of amd poor drivers is on purpose misleading and dishonest.

QUIT THE TROLLING!

 

[RussianSensation]

If AMD's diver overhead is much worse, it must require faster CPU clock speed to match the 980 result, but it's the same.

The AMD driver overhead on OC i5/i7s and 'poor' DX11 drivers has been disproved a long time ago but it keeps being repeated ad-nauseum from time to time. The former argument only applies for gamers with slow to mid-range CPUs. If you are running overclocked 4.4Ghz i5/i7 or faster, you'll be GPU limited at 1440p (OP's rez), especially in games like AC Unity where you literally have to use FXAA because MSAA destroys performance.

You can think of any modern game you want from FC4, to DAI to AC Unity to BF4 to Evolve to Dying Light and I guarantee it a stock Core i5 2500K @ 4.5Ghz will not bottleneck 980 SLI or 295X2 if you enable higher levels of AA/super-sampling, max draw distance, and so on. The more important aspect is not the CPU overhead but just how well NV SLI works against AMD CF in those specific titles that he plays. We know the answer -- SLI works way better in the titles he plays.

He should have just started the thread with:

980 SLI
970 SLI
single 980 and sell it when GM200 comes out
* I want NV only because in the games I play the most/my favourite franchises, NV/NV's SLI works best.

Done. Then all of us would just focus on finding him the best 970/980 card, which is really what he'd want to begin with. :awe:

 

[PC Master Race]

The AMD driver overhead on OC i5/i7s and 'poor' DX11 drivers has been disproved a long time ago but it keeps being repeated ad-nauseum from time to time.

Ya just like how CFX scaling issues has been repeated ad-nauseum.

 

[destrekor]

My recommendation: don't hope and wait that the GM200 consumer card will be released within 90 days. And there is no guarantee that EVGA will offer it on the Step Up program at release, though I don't have any historical data that suggests either they will or won't. They don't offer every card on Step Up, mostly the reference and lesser-OC'd variants, but a high-end limited availability card (at release) may vary well prevent them initially making it available for Step Up.

But my main concern is that the GM200 will not be released within 90 days. All signs point to GM200 coming soon, but is it a consumer GM200, and is it a sub-$1000 consumer card in the GTX brand, or a high-premium Titan chip that is released first?

I was initially considering a 980 for that very reason, but the price premium over the 290X didn't seem worth it, I didn't want to wait, and I was afraid I'd miss a Step Up chance simply due to timing. I tried that game once or twice before, and both times nothing better released in that time frame.

If I did have patience, I'd have probably waited. I just hope I don't miss Nvidia's extras (PhysX on GPU, extra IQ features, Nvidia-sponsored games). Most of the non-optimized GameWorks games have been fairly unspectacular games IMHO, from devs I don't care to support anyhow. But I'll be damned if I miss out on Witcher 3, and I really, really hope CDPR delivers a product that is good on both AMD and Nvidia.

 

[Arachnotronic]

OK I've been trying to get a refund from Newegg for the last 2 weeks or so for my G1 GTX 970s. They really gave me the run around I must say. First they took a week and a half to get back to me, and when they did, they denied me and tried to pass it off to the manufacturer; which in my case is Gigabyte.

Called Gigabyte yesterday, and their customer service is absolutely terrible. D: I'll never buy a Gigabyte product ever again, of that you can be assured. :thumbsdown:

So after getting the middle finger from Gigabyte, I took to calling Newegg again, and my perseverance paid off. I had to get a little dicey with them, but in the end I convinced them to approve my request. Basically it came down to telling them over and over that several other retailers including Best Buy, Amazon etcetera have accepted returns for unhappy GTX 970 owners, so why not Newegg?

I told them that denying me would lose them a long term customer, which wasn't worth it, and it's true. It's better for them to eat a small loss, rather than lose the potentially thousands of dollars from me not buying anything from them ever again.

It also helped a lot that I still had the boxes and everything for my cards. Also, I asked for store credit rather than a refund, because I was going to buy my next video card(s) from them. Although on my RMA authorization it still says "refund," but whatever.

Anyway, I plan on shipping them out later today, or on Friday. But now my dilemma is what to do with the $740 store credit that I'm going to get?

My original plan was to use the money to put towards a Titan X when it becomes available as I want to ditch SLI, but when that will be I have no idea. Could be well over a month or more from now. I don't know if I'm willing to wait that long.

Plan B would be to buy two EVGA GTX 980s (because &%$# Gigabyte), use one of them but leave the other unopened. The one that I'd use would eventually be for stepping up to a Titan X whenever it is released, whilst the other unopened one would be sold on eBay, Craigslist or on Anandtech's FS forum brand new.

And if you're wondering, why not just buy one GTX 980 instead, well if I did I'd still have almost $200 dollars of store credit left. If Newegg actually does give me an actual refund though instead, then yeah I'd definitely only buy the one card.

Plan C would be to keep the GTX 980s, and deal with the annoyances that comes with multiGPU setups.. If SLI ever ticks me off again like it did with Watch Dogs and AC Unity, I'll sell them both and buy the fastest single GPU I can get my hands on.

So what do you think? On one hand I want to ditch SLI, but on the other I'm so used to the high performance that SLI brings. GTX 980 SLI is going to be much faster than a single Titan X at 1440p, and pretty much guarantees 60 FPS unless you actively try to cripple the card by using ridiculously excessive settings such as 8x MSAA and high levels of downsampling.

A single Titan X, judging by it's specs should easily handle 1440p at high IQ settings, but 60 FPS is far from guaranteed. I want to play the Witcher 3 at 1440p with everything turned on to the max except supersampling. GTX 980 SLI should deliver that, but I'm not sure a single Titan X will..

Decisions, decisions, decisions :'(

Is your store credit transferrable? If so, you might consider trading said credit for cash at a modest discount (i.e. sell $740 worth of store credit to someone for like $720 on the FS/FT)...

 

[WittyRemark]

Seeing your attitude toward AMD, I'll say buy a pair of GTX980s if you're in a rush to play your games.
Otherwise wait for GM200,and with all these leaks popping up around the internet, it's just around the corner … probably :|
Frankly you made a bad decision returning those GTX970s when you were planning on staying NVIDIA's side, which means you weren't mad at them so why return those cards? performance hasn't changed and
GTX980 isn't all that impressive compared to a GTX970 in performance ,I don't understand.
Keep those GTX970s if possible, a logical choice imo.

 

[PPB]

I love how to OP keeps repeating the "CPU driver overhead" mantra without even thinking, just for a second, that if that sentence would be true, AMD 290/x cards wouldnt be remotely close in performance to 970/80 cards, let alone have such good CF scaling.

Its also mind boggling that he wont ever buy products from such a good GPU OEM as gigabyte, but its all good with NV laughing at his face all the way to the bank because, after getting lied with 970's specs, he doesnt consider another option than buying from them again.

Congrats OP, you are just the tame consumer NV wanted all along. :awe:

 

[RussianSensation]

I love how to OP keeps repeating the "CPU driver overhead" mantra without even thinking, just for a second, that if that sentence would be true, AMD 290/x cards wouldnt be remotely close in performance to 970/80 cards, let alone have such good CF scaling.

Its also mind boggling that he wont ever buy products from such a good GPU OEM as gigabyte, but its all good with NV laughing at his face all the way to the bank because, after getting lied with 970's specs, he doesnt consider another option than buying from them again.

Congrats OP, you are just the tame consumer NV wanted all along. :awe:

I stand 100% behind any AIB that refuses to accept returns on GTX970 cards. It's fully NV's responsibility to take blame for their false advertising. Why should EVGA, Gigabyte, MSI, Galax, or anyone else take a hit on RMA/returns, even if it's 1-5% of their margins?

What's more interesting is how we have heard for years now that NV can price its products much higher due to "no competition" or "weak competition" from AMD. But hell, when people pay 70-100% more for 10% more performance with 980 SLI vs. 295X2/290X CF, what exactly do they mean by "competition"? I guess I am becoming completely out of touch with the modern enthusiast gamer. I would not pay double for 10% more performance on 980 SLI over 290X CF out of principle, even if I made $1000 a day.

Don't they think for a second that when they pay $550+ for a mid-range Maxwell chip this sets a precedent to NV that it's A-OK to bifurcate a generation into 2 flagship cards and sell mid-range cards as flagships? I can't blame NV for executing this strategy again with Maxwell when the gamers are themselves lining up. Unfortunately, this means ASP for all levels of cards go up and the mainstream gamer gets to bear the brunt of it. We used to have awesome $200-250 cards in the 8800GT/GTX460/560Ti, but now we arrived in 2015 with a $200 960 2GB - total turd of a product - horrible performance, no future-proofing, VRAM gimped. That's the new GPU industry for you.

There is no way that NV isn't paying attention to the sales of a GTX980 @ $550 and already planning a bifurcating strategy for Pascal and Volta. It's no wonder NV's gross margins have skyrocketed from 34-40% in 2009-2011 to the 2013-2014 55-56% range since Maxwell. I will not be a part of the new GPU trend of paying $550+ for a card barely 10-15% faster than November 2013 flagship cards. I guess I am not 'enthusiast' enough!

 

[NTMBK]

Game on your integrated graphics for a few months, wait for 980 prices to drop/R9 3xx to launch.

EDIT: Oh right you have a 4930k, which doesn't have integrated graphics. Ignore my suggestion

 

[Skurge]

AMD is not an option for you and that's fine. Just get a 960 or a used 670 or something with you own cash and just soldier through the next 2-3 months. Play some indie games or older titles you may have missed and then get GM200 with the credit.

 

[Despoiler]

So let me see if I understand. If Newegg didn't give you a refund they would lose your business forever? Gigabyte has lost your business forever? Both of these because of nVidia deceiving you about the specs on the 970? Now you are looking at buying nVidia again? If anyone has caused you this grief and deserves to be shunned over it, surely it's nVidia, isn't it?

+1 on this too.

 

[_UP_]

Here are my suggestions.
1. Buy a stop card - probably a 290/x until GM200 comes out. Sell and get that (or maybe 2).
2. Buy one 980. Wait for GM200 and see the reviews. If it's much better, sell the single 980 and get the Titan/980Ti or whatever it'll be called. If it's not that great, get another 980 for SLI, for a much lower price.

BTW, does the store credit have an expiry date? If not you can use the rest for the next card.

 

[Nietzsche-san]

You want a refund because NV lied to you and you reward them by giving them more $$ for 980s?

Have you seen that youtube parody yet? Describes the situation perfectly, NV lying = win by getting users to spend more $ on 980s. I don't normally link parody but its just so fitting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spZJrsssPA0

Yo straight up, funniest video I've seen in years. I was crying alongside that guy.

 

[wand3r3r]

Carfax you have the perfect opportunity to try out 290 XDMA crossfire for cheap. Open your mind and see what the alternative is, who knows maybe you'll even find out that the "issues" you speak of aren't as big as you've made them out to be. In either case you plan to upgrade by summer anyway (assuming 390x/980 ti hit as rumored). You'd have to be extremely dedicated to NV to buy a 980 with 290/x's at the current prices, and if you are talking about a stopgap solution anyway why not give it a shot? Since you returned the 970's based on the lies and lack of concern from NV it makes no sense to go for the absurdly overpriced 980.

 

[96Firebird]

2x 970 SLI.

:awe:

 

[Kenmitch]

Oh the irony....Throwing more money at NVidia would be the last thing on my mind if I was you.

Proves the AMD doesn't really stand a chance in the market in the long run I guess.

 

[lavaheadache]

290x crossfire isn't an option because:

1) Power consumption

2) Very high driver overhead and CPU scaling issues

3) Crossfire compatibility is less than SLI

If it weren't for these three things, I would go with AMD in an instant.

all of these points are grossly exaggerated.

1. yes the Hawaii cards consume more power but really what does that equate to overall?

2. Show me 1 result where AMD's high driver overhead and cpu scaling is going to be even remotely noticeable unless looking at raw fps number counters.

3. Multi gpu compatibility is at the very least equal and if anything the other direction from what you state. I have extensive experience with both vendors current iterations and in my experience AMD has the edge.

I still am not playing Titanfall cause my Titan Z is effectively a Titan Black in that game and I need more power to play the way I want to play on my 3440x1440 screen.

Also had to wait on a profile for Alien isolation...

I have played with 3 way 290x, 295x2, 780 sli, 780 ti sli, titan Z sli (what a friggin joke) and the crossfire systems scaled better and have had better support.

 

[Dribble]

2x 970 SLI.

True, they are still the best solution. If you want to be annoyed with nvidia you should have bought AMD next time, silly to send them back and then work out they are still the best cards for your needs. Now due to stubbornness you have to buy 2*980 at great expense for minimal performance gain or one card and loose a lot of performance.

Next time don't take all the forum hate so seriously and knee jerk react. Think - if they are the best cards and they clearly are the best for you then keep them. It's not like the performance has changed since you got them, and before you were told to hate them.