News Roe v. Wade overturned

[Indus]

umm lol

 

[ch33zw1z]

Most departments in the US have a very low bar to be a cop. HS diploma or GED and an BLET training, typically 16 weeks.

Get fired by one department for excessive force, abuse of authority, etc., another department will hire them.

Sure, but what kind of firearms do UK cops carry?

 

[MtnMan]

Sure, but what kind of firearms do UK cops carry?

The armed ones carry handguns and have rifles... and additional training.

 

[pmv]

Every person in the UK also has access to free mental health care.

The UK banned guns in 1996. The murder rate, lower than the US increased, peaking in 2003, but then the UK hired 20,000 additional cops. Which has brought the rate down.

https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/40697/did-the-uk-homicide-rate-go-up-after-handgun-ownership-was-banned

That seems a rather-distorted take on it. Firearms were already heavily-restricted long before 1996. What happened in '96 was a further tightening of the restrictions in order to prevent a repeat of the Dunblane massacre - in which a guy with no existing criminal-record or criminal-connections, used a legally-owned handgun to murder a large number of school-children. It has been entirely successful in that limited aim. That murders in general continued to occur - or even randomly waxed and waned - with-or-without firearms, is besides the point. It was never "sold" as a means to reduce murder in general, just to prevent this one specific kind of horror.

Preventing all murders, particularly those committed by career criminals or terrorists (likely to have contacts allowing them to obtain illegal weapons - especially once the USSR disappeared and lots of weapons became available from Eastern Europe - even more so with Schengen and EU's freedom-of-movement) was never the point of the legal changes. The purpose was to reduce the number of people who had licenced handguns, who could potentially go nuts as the Dunblane killer did.

The annoying thing is that after each of these sorts of horrors, the authorities always seem to take the minimum step necessary to prevent exactly that same event happening again - but no further. So rifles were heavily restricted after the Hungerford massacre (where a rifle was used), but they didn't crack down on hand guns, and then we got Dunblane, and only then did they turn attention to handguns. If they'd used a bit of imagination after Hungerford maybe they'd have restricted handgun licences then and Dunblane might have been avoided.

Since Dunblane there have been, I think, from memory, two further cases of deranged angry guys going on shooting sprees (excluding the Islamist terror attacks)- in both cases with shotguns, which were not included in the post-Dunblane crackdown.

Most of the Islamist terror attacks (including those in France) seem to involve weapons bought in from Eastern Europe.

(To me that seems just another example of the downside of the EU - the removal of border controls made it far easier to bring weapons in from the East, where they are much more easily available...I am still as ambivalent about that entity as I ever was, there seem to be about as many downsides as upsides to it..)

 

[ch33zw1z]

The armed ones carry handguns and have rifles... and additional training.

what percentage of the police force does that entail?

 

[pmv]

what percentage of the police force does that entail?

I think almost all of them in the case of NI. I read its a hundred or so per police service in most other areas, more in London. Don't know how many cops there are in a given police service area, so don't know what the percentage is.

Apparently in the Met there are about 34,000 Officers in total, and 2,500 qualified to use firearms (but I don't know if those are all part of the Met, or if things like Diplomatic Protection are treated as separate organisations)

They say there's a risk that if an Islamist terror attack occurred in some remote rural area it would take ages for any armed cops to reach the scene. Fortunately the terrorists seem as Londoncentric as everyone else, and keep picking central London as a target - where the armed response is quite swift.

 

[fskimospy]

Every person in the UK also has access to free mental health care.

The UK banned guns in 1996. The murder rate, lower than the US increased, peaking in 2003, but then the UK hired 20,000 additional cops. Which has brought the rate down.

https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/40697/did-the-uk-homicide-rate-go-up-after-handgun-ownership-was-banned

I’m going to assume you used the wrong link because the link you supplied is some serious self-ownage.

From your own link:

2003 includes 172 victims of Dr Harold Shipman, one of the most prolific serial killers in history. While these killings happened over 25 years, they're recorded for 2003.

So that ‘spike’ that was ‘solved’ by adding cops was actually just a reporting anomaly made by the decision to report murders the year they were discovered instead of when they happened. Oops!

The causal link between increased gun availability and homicide is well established and I can provide you with voluminous research showing this. When you have more guns you end up with more crime, and more murders. Usually lots more of both because guns are very useful for committing crimes!

If you like guns that’s fine but I do not see why gun advocates continually twist themselves into knots to try and say that widespread availability of efficient killing tools does not lead to more killing.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I think almost all of them in the case of NI. I read its a hundred or so per police service in most other areas, more in London. Don't know how many cops there are in a given police service area, so don't know what the percentage is.

Apparently in the Met there are about 34,000 Officers in total, and 2,500 qualified to use firearms (but I don't know if those are all part of the Met, or if things like Diplomatic Protection are treated as separate organisations)

They say there's a risk that if an Islamist terror attack occurred in some remote rural area it would take ages for any armed cops to reach the scene. Fortunately the terrorists seem as Londoncentric as everyone else, and keep picking central London as a target - where the armed response is quite swift.

pretty small piece of the total force. I think what Mtman is trying to get at is another gun restrictions don’t work line of thinking.

to his point, I won’t disagree that U.S. LEO’s could use some educated persons, but we must be realistic in this thought. The personality profiles we hire now are very specific, and well educated persons don’t fit that profile.

 

[pmv]

nm

(not only a double post, but somehow ended up in the wrong thread)

 

[shortylickens]

So you are advocating given treatment to heavily armed mentally ill people.
I can strawman too!

You will probably never agree with anyone what defines "heavily armed" so we cannot discuss that.
And right now its impossible to control firearms or people getting firearms because America is not yet a fascist dictatorship. We've been less effective at controlling guns than we have at controlling heroin.
So YES! I absolutely think we need to give mental treatment to EVERY american who may have issues, not just people who may be armed. Its the only thing we actually could control, and really this whole situation is about control. We think we can control objects, we think we can control people, in reality all we can control is our own responses to our impulses. It took me decades to figure that out and I wish other people understood it as well.

 

[ch33zw1z]

You will probably never agree with anyone what defines "heavily armed" so we cannot discuss that.
And right now its impossible to control firearms or people getting firearms because America is not yet a fascist dictatorship. We've been less effective at controlling guns than we have at controlling heroin.
So YES! I absolutely think we need to give mental treatment to EVERY american who may have issues, not just people who may be armed. Its the only thing we actually could control, and really this whole situation is about control. We think we can control objects, we think we can control people, in reality all we can control is our own responses to our impulses. It took me decades to figure that out and I wish other people understood it as well.

mental health treatment will be seen as controlling people. So basically it boils down to gun violence is the American way. It will change when America is dissolved and rebuilt with higher expectations.

 

[brycejones]

You will probably never agree with anyone what defines "heavily armed" so we cannot discuss that.
And right now its impossible to control firearms or people getting firearms because America is not yet a fascist dictatorship. We've been less effective at controlling guns than we have at controlling heroin.
So YES! I absolutely think we need to give mental treatment to EVERY american who may have issues, not just people who may be armed. Its the only thing we actually could control, and really this whole situation is about control. We think we can control objects, we think we can control people, in reality all we can control is our own responses to our impulses. It took me decades to figure that out and I wish other people understood it as well.

Guns are the problem. You arguing that objects can’t be controlled but mental health and the impulses of people can is just beyond belief. Once again the only thing America is exceptional about is the number of fucking guns we have. Period.

 

[MtnMan]

mental health treatment will be seen as controlling people. So basically it boils down to gun violence is the American way. It will change when America is dissolved and rebuilt with higher expectations.

"rebuilt with higher expectations"... that's rich. Whose expectations? The christian taliban's? That is the next step on the path we are on, when dystopian fiction becomes reality... welcome to Gilead.

 

[shortylickens]

Guns are the problem. You arguing that objects can’t be controlled but mental health and the impulses of people can is just beyond belief. Once again the only thing America is exceptional about is the number of fucking guns we have. Period.

I never said that, which seems to be a problem here on Anandtech and elsewhere. People not hearing what they like so they lie about what someone said and argue THAT.
I said improving mental health makes a nation much better. Many european countries have proved it.



AT NO POINT DID I EVER SAY ANYTHING ABOUT CONTROLLING PEOPLE AND THATS EXACTLY WHAT YOU LYING DICKHOLES HAVE CLAIMED!

 

[brycejones]

I never said that, which seems to be a problem here on Anandtech and elsewhere. People not hearing what they like so they lie about what someone said and argue THAT.
I said improving mental health makes a nation much better. Many european countries have proved it.



AT NO POINT DID I EVER SAY ANYTHING ABOUT CONTROLLING PEOPLE AND THATS EXACTLY WHAT YOU LYING DICKHOLES HAVE CLAIMED!

Then you sucked at communicating your point. Now try to use your words better.

You did however clearly say objects cannot be controlled which is just fucking dumb.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Shut the fuck up about guns in this thread already.

 

[ch33zw1z]

"rebuilt with higher expectations"... that's rich. Whose expectations? The christian taliban's? That is the next step on the path we are on, when dystopian fiction becomes reality... welcome to Gilead.

Yes, the christian taliban is on the rise and taking control. What’s your plan when they come for your guns?

 

[shortylickens]

Shut the fuck up about guns in this thread already.

wait, this aint the gun thread???

 

[brycejones]

wait, this aint the gun thread???

Only if the fetuses are packing heat

 

[nakedfrog]

Only if the fetuses are packing heat

Gotta start 'em young, you know. That way if the godless whore carrying them tries any funny business BLAM!

 

[ch33zw1z]

Only if the fetuses are packing heat

look at you and your republican idealism

 

[HomerJS]

I don’t care how much lying these right wing Republican dirtbags do don’t believe them when they say women won’t be charged with murder. It happened in Mississippi. The same state that doesn’t have exceptions for rape. They already prosecuted a woman because she had a stillborn pregnancy and they tried to blame her.

Victory for Latice Fisher in Mississippi - New York | Pregnancy Justice

Victory for Latice Fisher in Mississippi In Mississippi, Latice Fisher was charged with second degree murder after she experienced a pregnancy loss at home. She reached out to Pregnancy Justice directly asking for help, and we responded immediately. We quickly joined forces with Laurie Bertram...

www.nationaladvocatesforpregnantwomen.org

 

[MtnMan]

Yes, the christian taliban is on the rise and taking control. What’s your plan when they come for your guns?

The christian taliban is pro gun, it's the women they will be coming after.

 

[ch33zw1z]

The christian taliban is pro gun, it's the women they will be coming after.

they’ll be pro gun for a bit, then they’ll be sure to remove gun ownership for anyone they don't like

 

[Paratus]

Only if the fetuses are packing heat

We’ll I did post that story about the pregnant woman getting shot 5 times, losing the baby and being charged with the murder of her child because it was in a stand your ground state and she started the fight so they didn’t charge the shooter.