News Roe v. Wade overturned

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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,697
25,022
136
It's weird how people somehow think that drug dealers are handing out their product to children for free.

If there's a liquor store down the road from you it's reasonable to worry they might SELL your kids booze. I am not worried they will give it to them for free.
Yeah, but police departments can push budgets higher by sowing fear.
 
Dec 10, 2005
24,434
7,356
136
I'm very fond of Joe Biden and I believe his intentions are good BUT I also believe that he has literally no idea how to get things done anymore and that US politics has largely passed him by.
The legislation passed in the last two years of razor thin margins suggests otherwise.

Don't subscribe to the green lantern theory/west wing speechifying of politics.
 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,058
38,568
136
TBF, the drugs in candy thing went around every fall when I was a kid religion. They really didn’t want you trick or treating.

its Nice to see regressives holding on to the values like scare tactics. Good job!


Low hanging fruit for the religulously upright, all those ghosts and goblins, it's downright satanic man! Think of the children.

Next thing you know those kids might try yoga.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,875
10,300
136
Here’s the thing and I am not anti-choice.
The voters do not appear to be all fired up about this. Couple of months ago yes, as of now it appears that has passed. Far, far, far too much political capital has been spent on this over the decades. Time to start evaluating if it is worth it to continue spending capital on it.
I think a huge part of the problem is democrats never completely embraced it, tried to play the middle road to get a couple of fundies to vote for them. When it was the default they felt like they could play that game, so that ceded almost the entire message framing to the republicans. It hasn't been until after Dobbs dems have given pro-choice a full embrace. But they still really missed a huge opertunity. They should've made every republican vote on birth control, inter-racial marriage, gay marriage, and abortion. Make republicans actually go on record with something other than bashing gas prices.
 
Reactions: Captante

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,305
10,804
136
The legislation passed in the last two years of razor thin margins suggests otherwise.

Don't subscribe to the green lantern theory/west wing speechifying of politics.

I've been paying attention throughout. Every bill that was passed got severely "gimped" in the process and while it was certainly better than nothing it was insufficient in the eyes of a great many Americans whose livelihood is literally swirling in the bowl right now.

Despite "media-spin" to the contrary our economy is in the process of crapping the bed and most folks can't be bothered to understand why.

I know that just like in football a team doesn't usually get beat only because of the quarterback but they lead the team and so they catch the lion's share of the blame fair or not. (and even if the "hardcore" football fans see what really happened they are a tiny minority.... just like "informed" voters)

I'm very fond of Biden as I've already stated and if he's the Democratic nominee in '24 he will absolutely get my vote, but that doesn't mean I don't think other people (Gavin Newsom in particular) would have a FAR better chance of winning against whatever evil POS the GOP sends.

Hopefully I'm completely off base here and the GOP will lose out in a couple weeks but I highly doubt it..... Dems waited far too long to "get aggressive" and now I believe it's too late for the midterms.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,000
18,346
146
Low hanging fruit for the religulously upright, all those ghosts and goblins, it's downright satanic man! Think of the children.

Next thing you know those kids might try yoga.

I know you jest, but yoga was painted as satanic eastern religion for me :/

I know better now, but damn, a lot of people just soaked that up
 
Reactions: Captante

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,818
49,513
136
I think a huge part of the problem is democrats never completely embraced it, tried to play the middle road to get a couple of fundies to vote for them. When it was the default they felt like they could play that game, so that ceded almost the entire message framing to the republicans. It hasn't been until after Dobbs dems have given pro-choice a full embrace. But they still really missed a huge opertunity. They should've made every republican vote on birth control, inter-racial marriage, gay marriage, and abortion. Make republicans actually go on record with something other than bashing gas prices.
I agree that Democrats should have held abortion vote after abortion vote, maybe Manchin wouldn't go along, I don't know?

That being said, playing the middle road is exactly what they should have done - just kept voting on basically restoring the Roe framework that is broadly popular.
 
Reactions: Captante

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,058
38,568
136
I think a huge part of the problem is democrats never completely embraced it, tried to play the middle road to get a couple of fundies to vote for them. When it was the default they felt like they could play that game, so that ceded almost the entire message framing to the republicans. It hasn't been until after Dobbs dems have given pro-choice a full embrace. But they still really missed a huge opertunity. They should've made every republican vote on birth control, inter-racial marriage, gay marriage, and abortion. Make republicans actually go on record with something other than bashing gas prices.


The Democratic party has socially conservative members who subscribe to the same religion (kinda) as the anti choice zealots. I don't think a complete embrace was ever in the cards.

Jan 6th, Roe v Wade, Social Security. Repeat. That's essentially what I want the Dems to hammer away on. They need to be clear about the filibuster and give people some hope.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,875
10,300
136
Last poll I saw on this topic showed that a small majority of voters believe that the GOP is better at keeping the economy "pumping" and much as I despise those bastages and am 100% Democrat I'm not sure I disagree.

The economy is so good right now, people have more spending power than the economy has production power. People (all employed, because we have record low unemployment, mind you) then take this to mean the economy is terrible. People get pissed that their favorite restaurant is understaffed and they literally say "Man this economy is so bad, my Buffalo Wild Wings can't even get employees!" They are literally too stupid to know what they are actually saying is "The economy and job market are so could, people don't have to take shitty minimum wage jobs at restaurants, so they've moved on to better, higher paying, jobs with better benefits." My company can't hire engineers right now, that isn't because the economy sucks, it's because any engineer with a pulse is getting multiple offers.

The only thing the GOP is good at with the economy is spewing bullshit talking points, and giving rich people massive tax breaks and then crashing the job market.

Basically I've learned that people think anything that negatively affects them at all, even if overall the are net better, means the "economy sucks." I really want to know the last time people actually thought the economy was good, 1999? I've been hearing the "economy sucks" every election since 2000 and I was too young to remember it from before then.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,818
49,513
136
The economy is so good right now, people have more spending power than the economy has production power. People (all employed, because we have record low unemployment, mind you) then take this to mean the economy is terrible. People get pissed that their favorite restaurant is understaffed and they literally say "Man this economy is so bad, my Buffalo Wild Wings can't even get employees!" They are literally too stupid to know what they are actually saying is "The economy and job market are so could, people don't have to take shitty minimum wage jobs at restaurants, so they've moved on to better, higher paying, jobs with better benefits." My company can't hire engineers right now, that isn't because the economy sucks, it's because any engineer with a pulse is getting multiple offers.

The only thing the GOP is good at with the economy is spewing bullshit talking points, and giving rich people massive tax breaks and then crashing the job market.

Basically I've learned that people think anything that negatively affects them at all, even if overall the are net better, means the "economy sucks." I really want to know the last time people actually thought the economy was good, 1999? I've been hearing the "economy sucks" every election since 2000 and I was too young to remember it from before then.
I think people are pissed about inflation and even though it’s a global thing the people in power get blamed. One thing that bothers me though is that Republicans campaign on inflation being bad but nobody seems to ask them what they would do to make it better.

If more people did ask they would see that generally Republicans have no plan to improve inflation but to the extent that they do it’s by cutting social security and Medicare. I bet people wouldn’t like that!
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,601
29,313
136
I think people are pissed about inflation and even though it’s a global thing the people in power get blamed. One thing that bothers me though is that Republicans campaign on inflation being bad but nobody seems to ask them what they would do to make it better.

If more people did ask they would see that generally Republicans have no plan to improve inflation but to the extent that they do it’s by cutting social security and Medicare. I bet people wouldn’t like that!
More importantly, Republicans voted against bills designed to fight "inflation." I put inflation in quotes because we know most of it is just due to corporations gouging the public.
 
Reactions: ch33zw1z

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
TBF, the drugs in candy thing went around every fall when I was a kid religion. They really didn’t want you trick or treating.

its Nice to see regressives holding on to the values like scare tactics. Good job!

Wasn't one of the big inciting incidents when some guy reported that his son was poisoned by Halloween candy, but it turns out that he poisoned his own son?
 
Reactions: [DHT]Osiris

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,818
49,513
136
More importantly, Republicans voted against bills designed to fight "inflation." I put inflation in quotes because we know most of it is just due to corporations gouging the public.
I will once again register my skepticism that worldwide inflation was suddenly caused by corporations remembering to be greedy.
 
Reactions: Dave_5k

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,000
18,346
146

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,875
10,300
136
I've been paying attention throughout. Every bill that was passed got severely "gimped" in the process and while it was certainly better than nothing it was insufficient in the eyes of a great many Americans whose livelihood is literally swirling in the bowl right now.

Despite "media-spin" to the contrary our economy is in the process of crapping the bed and most folks can't be bothered to understand why.

I know that just like in football a team doesn't usually get beat only because of the quarterback but they lead the team and so they catch the lion's share of the blame fair or not. (and even if the "hardcore" football fans see what really happened they are a tiny minority.... just like "informed" voters)

I'm very fond of Biden as I've already stated and if he's the Democratic nominee in '24 he will absolutely get my vote, but that doesn't mean I don't think other people (Gavin Newsom in particular) would have a FAR better chance of winning against whatever evil POS the GOP sends.

Hopefully I'm completely off base here and the GOP will lose out in a couple weeks but I highly doubt it..... Dems waited far too long to "get aggressive" and now I believe it's too late for the midterms.
If many Americans want more, they shouldn't vote for the people gimped or blocking bills. But people, again, are too stupid for that. "I vote in such a way to make sure nothing gets done, therefore when nothing gets done, I'll vote for the other party to so I'm pissed nothing gets done."

Biden has been incredibly successful with his legislation, but for whatever reason Democrats can't get people to talk about the successes. Meanwhile, the one fucking thing Trump got done we hear about non-stop. It's amazing how much more coverage you get from bashing/negativity than actually accomplishing things or proposing solutions.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,305
10,804
136
Idk..... I see more homeless people than ever before, every food-bank is doing more business than ever AND everything FEELS literally twice as expensive as it was this time last year.

If I could have my life from mid-2019 back I'd take it so fast it would make your head spin and I know for a fact that I'm far from alone.

 
Dec 10, 2005
24,434
7,356
136
If many Americans want more, they shouldn't vote for the people gimped or blocking bills. But people, again, are too stupid for that. "I vote in such a way to make sure nothing gets done, therefore when nothing gets done, I'll vote for the other party to so I'm pissed nothing gets done."

Biden has been incredibly successful with his legislation, but for whatever reason Democrats can't get people to talk about the successes. Meanwhile, the one fucking thing Trump got done we hear about non-stop. It's amazing how much more coverage you get from bashing/negativity than actually accomplishing things or proposing solutions.
I know - saw a video a likely Pittsburgh voter who was like, "Republicans are too extreme on social issues, but Dr. Oz seems more moderate, and I think what we have now is not working, so we should shake things up" (ie, give House/Senate to Republicans). Lots of people are just buffoons.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,875
10,300
136
I agree that Democrats should have held abortion vote after abortion vote, maybe Manchin wouldn't go along, I don't know?

That being said, playing the middle road is exactly what they should have done - just kept voting on basically restoring the Roe framework that is broadly popular.
I am saying they are just now fully embracing Roe. Before we had a lot of tip-toeing around it and "Pro-life" democrats, like Tim Kaine. When much of the "pro-choice" party was afraid to discuss abortion at all for 30 years, it ceded a lot of ground to the pro-choice messaging.
 
Reactions: Captante

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,305
10,804
136
Frank Zappa (among many other smart folks) tried to warn us the political clusterfvck we have in 'murica today was coming way back in the mid-1980's when Pat Robertson ran for POTUS.

Nobody listened then and nobody is listening now.
 
Reactions: pcgeek11

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,818
49,513
136
If many Americans want more, they shouldn't vote for the people gimped or blocking bills. But people, again, are too stupid for that. "I vote in such a way to make sure nothing gets done, therefore when nothing gets done, I'll vote for the other party to so I'm pissed nothing gets done."

Biden has been incredibly successful with his legislation, but for whatever reason Democrats can't get people to talk about the successes. Meanwhile, the one fucking thing Trump got done we hear about non-stop. It's amazing how much more coverage you get from bashing/negativity than actually accomplishing things or proposing solutions.
I think the larger issue is that the mainstream media is by its nature contrarian. Nobody wins awards with news stories about how everything is great, and the mainstream media usually has an adversarial stance with the government. The problem is that we also have a second media ecosystem dedicated solely to advancing Republican Party electoral interests.

So when a Republican is president you get one adversarial media ecosystem and one supportive ecosystem. When you have a democratic president you get one adversarial and one foaming, rabid hatred ecosystem.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,818
49,513
136
Yes, I think she's wrong. This is most likely an artifact of the specific time period chosen.

I'm open to being proven wrong but it would take a lot more than a whiteboard from a politician at a hearing. I am inherently skeptical about the idea that corporations worldwide all figured out at the same time they were allowed to be greedy. Inherently unlikely.
 
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