News Roe v. Wade overturned

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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,324
15,123
136
I know why nearly all late term abortions happen. For medical reasons or genetic defects, and I think that should be legal. You are the one pushing for 40 week, healthy abortions, playing right into the republicans hand. If you don't want a healthy baby at 36 weeks, well get induced and give it up for adoption. A late term abortion and a birth are basically the same, except one kills the fetus and one doesn't.

You have the extremist position because it is way past what even the vast majority of pro-choice people agree with.

Do you even hear yourself? You know why late term abortions happen and yet you think women will start suddenly having late term abortions just because they can? You are either dumber than I thought (and I think rather highly of you) or you have such a low regard for womens ability to make sane decisions in which case that doesn’t speak very well of you.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,324
15,123
136
How does drug use violate someone else’s rights?

It doesn’t until it does. People who do drugs in their homes with no one around don’t get arrested. Add a child, a public or someone else’s private property, and many other things and it becomes a problem.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,324
15,123
136
Explain how someone selling drugs to someone else violates the rights of others.

Well for one it violates any protections we’ve put in place to protect users and the drugs themselves lack any oversight by the FDA. Not to mention issues with distribution oversight (especially with regards to children).
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,775
49,434
136
Well for one it violates any protections we’ve put in place to protect users and the drugs themselves lack any oversight by the FDA. Not to mention issues with distribution oversight (especially with regards to children).
The only person not being protected is voluntarily choosing to take that risk - no one else's rights are being violated.
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,607
12,733
146
Well for one it violates any protections we’ve put in place to protect users and the drugs themselves lack any oversight by the FDA. Not to mention issues with distribution oversight (especially with regards to children).
I'm not sure that a person can violate their own rights?

Plenty of laws exist that don't violate any ones' rights if you break them. See above, growing your own pot.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,875
10,300
136
Do you even hear yourself? You know why late term abortions happen and yet you think women will start suddenly having late term abortions just because they can? You are either dumber than I thought (and I think rather highly of you) or you have such a low regard for womens ability to make sane decisions in which case that doesn’t speak very well of you.
I think it would give anti-choice people a massive talking point and wedge while giving no really benefit to anyone. No one seeks a late term abortion for the fun of it, so we are in agreement from a practical point of view. I see no reason to put all abortion rights at risk, to fight for something practically no body wants or will use (late term, at will abortions). Again, I fully support them for medical reasons, with a very broad definition and with just the doctor's agreement.

I also fully support at will abortions until viability or viability plus a few weeks. But past a point the baby should be delivered and put up for adoption.
 
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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,807
10,343
136
I think it would give anti-choice people a massive talking point and wedge while giving no really benefit to anyone. No one seeks a late term abortion for the fun of it, so we are in agreement from a practical point of view. I see no reason to put all abortion rights at risk, to fight for something practically no body wants or will use (late term, at will abortions). Again, I fully support them for medical reasons, with a very broad definition and with just the doctor's agreement.

I also fully support at will abortions until viability or viability plus a few weeks. But past a point the baby should be delivered and put up for adoption.

with respect to the bolded, yes they may only be a small fraction of abortions performed, but they absolutely need to be available to women who find themselves in a situation no one would ever choose.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,324
15,123
136
I think it would give anti-choice people a massive talking point and wedge while giving no really benefit to anyone. No one seeks a late term abortion for the fun of it, so we are in agreement from a practical point of view. I see no reason to put all abortion rights at risk, to fight for something practically no body wants or will use (late term, at will abortions). Again, I fully support them for medical reasons, with a very broad definition and with just the doctor's agreement.

I also fully support at will abortions until viability or viability plus a few weeks. But past a point the baby should be delivered and put up for adoption.

From a political aspect I totally agree but by not talking about access in these terms we are allowing the anti choice people to frame the argument. We will never make progress if we allow those who don’t want progress to frame it as bad or evil.

You and I agree that there is nothing wrong with allowing abortion to be completely unrestricted in terms of when it can be done because we both acknowledge that the option to have a late term abortion isn’t one that’s taken lightly and we agree that women along with their doctors are fully capable of making that decision themselves, right? If so then why are you subjecting the issue to be framed by those who seek to remove the right completely?

Start changing the narrative now, it’s common sense, it’s common decency, it’s respectful to women, and it puts the control of women’s bodies where it belongs, with women.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,324
15,123
136
with respect to the bolded, yes they may only be a small fraction of abortions performed, but they absolutely need to be available to women who find themselves in a situation no one would ever choose.

It makes sense but people for some reason can’t get past their own reasoning and unrealistic hypothetical. Just because you (generically speaking) can’t understand why someone would need to have a late term abortion doesn’t mean there isn’t a valid reason why someone would need one.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,875
10,300
136
with respect to the bolded, yes they may only be a small fraction of abortions performed, but they absolutely need to be available to women who find themselves in a situation no one would ever choose.
What situation? That I didn't already address.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,535
13,109
136
From a political aspect I totally agree but by not talking about access in these terms we are allowing the anti choice people to frame the argument. We will never make progress if we allow those who don’t want progress to frame it as bad or evil.

You and I agree that there is nothing wrong with allowing abortion to be completely unrestricted in terms of when it can be done because we both acknowledge that the option to have a late term abortion isn’t one that’s taken lightly and we agree that women along with their doctors are fully capable of making that decision themselves, right? If so then why are you subjecting the issue to be framed by those who seek to remove the right completely?

Start changing the narrative now, it’s common sense, it’s common decency, it’s respectful to women, and it puts the control of women’s bodies where it belongs, with women.

Cause your democracy is balancing on a knifes edge for dear life and if you dont take home some more intermediate wins so as to expand on the sc court you wont get another chance for a century and Roe vs Wade is just the tip of whats coming.
Would be my line of reasoning.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,324
15,123
136
Cause your democracy is balancing on a knifes edge for dear life and if you dont take home some more intermediate wins so as to expand on the sc court you wont get another chance for a century and Roe vs Wade is just the tip of whats coming.
Would be my line of reasoning.

So doing more of the same. Yeah that’s been working swimmingly.
 
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