News Roe v. Wade overturned

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Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,549
761
146
Care to explain how the 14th is dragged into this?
Equal protection does not require all state laws to be equal across all states.
So pray tell... what you're even getting at by referencing it.

The reasoning was based on the due process clause in the 14th Amendment.


One might think Roe was based on equal protection, because that would make sense, but no, it was actually based on the due process clause of the 14th. Equal protection had absolutely nothing to do with it. Many, including Ginsburg, have argued that Roe would have been stronger had it been derived from the equal protection clause.

A broad restraint on government using that as a basis seems rather strange, since there isn't a good comparison to the other sex for obvious reasons. Stronger? Conservatives are really going to go, "My bad, there is an equal protection violation." They only have to look at the liberal justices to see how easy it is to shit all over the equal protection clause by just arguing similarly there is a "compelling interest" to save life. For example, liberals use the really flimsy excuse of educational diversity to justify racial discrimination. I can imagine they would also shit all over it with quotas for jobs, etc. to minorities if it came to it.
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
8,538
7,166
136
You don't know how they would rule.. You and the other's are just theorizing based off of assumptions. IF they ruled in that way, guess what, that means every state can enforce their state laws on their residence in every state across the country. You want to go to Vegas and gamble, but it's illegal in your state, guess what, you can't or you will go to jail. You want to Washington, Colorado, etc to smoke weed, you can't, or you will go to jail because it's illegal in your state.. State residence cannot be tried for legal actions in another state.. They have NO jurisdiction period, ONLY the federal government has such authority to enforced laws across all states. again there is NO legal standing for states to do this.. Just theories and assumptions based on feelz.

LOL not listening to what Uncle Thomas is telling you.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,162
136

"The governor also plans to direct state police to refuse to cooperate with law enforcement from other states"

See....
Just look at the furthering chaos this Trump supreme court has wroth upon the American people. Now, even law enforcement of different states will be pitted against one another. The law enforcement of one state becomes the enemy of law enforcement from another state.
To achieve THAT, you pathetic miserable Trumpies, was a pretty good doing to further divide Americans.
WOOT! YOU DID IT!!!

So what is next? Nukes from one state pointed at a neighboring state? What the hell would you can THAT????
Oh I know... you would call that A CIVIL WAR.
Yes, it's coming folks, that inevitable civil war.
Every ruling handed down from this Trump court only brings civil war that much closer. Every day civil war grows closer and closer.

As much as I am against guns in general, maybe it's time for you democrats out there to exercise your 2nd amendment rights.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,238
136
Interesting question.

Looking at many of the leading lights of the Republican Party, would allow one to at least set an upper limit to the timescale...For example, how old is Mitch McConnell currently? We can at least say that it sometimes doesn't happen till later than that.
Or, does he have one and it's just black? 😉
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
51,068
43,068
136
I'm uh detecting some politically problematic messaging over refusing to let women who are raped have abortions (which itself is already a very unpopular position).

https://www.axios.com/local/richmond/2022/06/27/yesli-vega-pregnancy-rape-audio-recording

What's happening: At an event in Stafford County, Vega, a Prince William County supervisor and sheriff's deputy, was asked what she thinks Congress should do if the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade.

  • After expressing support for new state-level restrictions, she said, "The left will say, 'Well what about in cases of rape or incest?' I'm a law enforcement officer. I became a police officer in 2011. I've worked one case where as a result of a rape, the young woman became pregnant."
Vega was then asked, "I've actually heard that it's harder for a woman to get pregnant if she's been raped. Have you heard that?"

  • Vega responded: "Well, maybe because there's so much going on in the body. I don't know. I haven't, you know, seen any studies. But if I'm processing what you're saying, it wouldn't surprise me. Because it's not something that's happening organically. You're forcing it. The individual, the male, is doing it as quickly — it's not like, you know — and so I can see why there is truth to that. It's unfortunate."
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,238
136
what? First: there is no soul, or, at the very least, it isn't science and it isn't arguable or testable, so it is irrelevant here. It's an argument from religion, so it has no place in law or any type of debate that depends on testable, fundamental laws of nature.

fertilization, if it somehow happens, starts you at a ~30% chance of maybe an implantation happening, if the zygote even manages to survive the next 3 days. There is no Biologist that would ever defend the preposterous notion that life begins at conception. It's utter nonsense, and completely defeated by the basic work (those of us that work in reproductive biology) do every single day.

As far as a soul goes, it's a loaded question, but it's a point that needs to be addressed regardless.
I don't think it's politically tenable fur democrats to claim people have no souls. You won't get far with that argument.

But yes, it's ambiguous, at least with answering the question when precisely does a developing life transform from a mass of cells into a person with rights?

As far as biology goes, it's also ambiguous. Conception, basic formation of the heart, brain activity, response to stimulus, passing thru the magical walls of the uterus? Some other arbitrary milestone?

Where you draw the line and others draw the line will be different based on different values.

Given this ambiguity, and given the lack of specific constitutional language and specious legal reasoning behind the original ruling (which was the finding of the court, and has been a bipartisan view), it's likely most appropriate that this question is left to states to decide. Federalism has a place here.

CA can codify in their constitution based on their values, and if MS has different traditions and values, they can do the opposite, and they will have to own the messy consequences of such.
 
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NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,374
2,911
136
Care to explain how the 14th is dragged into this?
Equal protection does not require all state laws to be equal across all states.
So pray tell... what you're even getting at by referencing it.
1) First, the 14th amendment is/was the heart of the Roe vs Wade ruling in 1973.. So go learn some history..
2) You are implying something I never said. Comprehension failure on your part? (do #1, you might learn something)
3) See number 1.
 
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NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,374
2,911
136
"Legitimate" by whose choice or whose definition? This USSC decided the 14th Amendment had nothing to do with the ruling and overturned it. It is well within their purview and power to do so, it's a done deal.
To rule that it has nothing to do with the 14th amendment means they have to ignore what it says.. Thank you for confirming what I said.
 
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NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,374
2,911
136
LOL not listening to what Uncle Thomas is telling you.
Sorry, I don't have an Uncle Thomas. I also know that what one says in public may not necessarily mean it will be the outcome. Specially since he is just 1 vote.. Seriously, stop with the assumption bullshit.
 

NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,374
2,911
136
Better not even search about abortion options:


 

NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,374
2,911
136
‘They will never overturn Roe v. Wade’ - lots of legal commentators 2016-2020
You really should read what I was responding to.. he brought up Thomas's quote about gays and such.. nothing to do with the subject(s) being discussed, and sure as hell nothing to do with Roe vs Wade.

However to respond to what you just said: They will vote to END the ACA completely.. didn't happen. They will side with Trump on his election fraud.. didn't happen.. blah blah blah.. Just because A happened does not mean B, C, D.... will happen.. You can believe what every you want.. but belief is not factual, it's just assumptions and in this case, it's based off fear, and short sighted of what giving states the power to prosecute it's residence for legal actions done in another state would really mean.


Edit: Also, if what a judge says about a subject before any case has taken place, is gospel, then why did Roe vs Wade get over turned? Didn't 3 of the 5 judges that over turned it tell the nation during their confirmation hearings that they wouldn't touch Roe vs Wade? What does that say about trusting what these ass hats say before rulings?
 
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Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
21,652
6,109
136
‘They will never overturn Roe v. Wade’ - lots of legal commentators 2016-2020
I believed that as well. I always thought the original ruling required a contrived application of the constitution, but firmly believed it wouldn't be revisited.
While the new ruling is a politically shitty decision, it is a constitutional decision. It also leaves the door open as opposed to ruling that a fetus is a person with rights. That would have made abortion under any circumstances murder.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,064
53,388
136
You really should read what I was responding to.. he brought up Thomas's quote about gays and such.. nothing to do with the subject(s) being discussed, and sure as hell nothing to do with Roe vs Wade.

However to respond to what you just said: They will vote to END the ACA completely.. didn't happen. They will side with Trump on his election fraud.. didn't happen.. blah blah blah.. Just because A happened does not mean B, C, D.... will happen.. You can believe what every you want.. but belief is not factual, it's just assumptions and in this case, it's based off fear, and short sighted of what giving states the power to prosecute it's residence for legal actions done in another state would really mean.


Edit: Also, if what a judge says about a subject before any case has taken place, is gospel, then why did Roe vs Wade get over turned? Didn't 3 of the 5 judges that over turned it tell the nation during their confirmation hearings that they wouldn't touch Roe vs Wade? What does that say about trusting what these ass hats say before rulings?
Uhm, all of the rulings on the ACA would have been 9-0 in a prior era so you are further proving my point.

Your position here is almost comically naive.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,064
53,388
136
I believed that as well. I always thought the original ruling required a contrived application of the constitution, but firmly believed it wouldn't be revisited.
While the new ruling is a politically shitty decision, it is a constitutional decision. It also leaves the door open as opposed to ruling that a fetus is a person with rights. That would have made abortion under any circumstances murder.
So to be clear you think rulings establishing the right to contraception, invalidating gay sex bans, and establishing the right to same sex marriage were wrongly decided? Because if you think this opinion is right that is the only logical conclusion.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
51,068
43,068
136
I believed that as well. I always thought the original ruling required a contrived application of the constitution, but firmly believed it wouldn't be revisited.
While the new ruling is a politically shitty decision, it is a constitutional decision. It also leaves the door open as opposed to ruling that a fetus is a person with rights. That would have made abortion under any circumstances murder.

The idea that the court didn't simply decide anybody with a failed pregnancy are assumed murderers is a consolation prize is quite the position.
 

eelw

Lifer
Dec 4, 1999
10,155
5,256
136
But the whole argument by the pro life, we let the people decide!!!!! Umm are the state representatives even consulting the people before passing these bills? Like if they waited until the next state election cycle and still reelected under platform of banning abortion, then so be it.

Another argument from random lady on the Friday morning. It’s insulting to say that women can’t be successful unless they choose career over motherhood. This will empower women more now!!! Well not in those exact words but that was her point.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
21,652
6,109
136
So to be clear you think rulings establishing the right to contraception, invalidating gay sex bans, and establishing the right to same sex marriage were wrongly decided? Because if you think this opinion is right that is the only logical conclusion.
I haven't looked at any of those decisions, so I don't have an opinion. I assume from your statement that they were all established under a persons right to privacy?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,064
53,388
136
But the whole argument by the pro life, we let the people decide!!!!! Umm are the state representatives even consulting the people before passing these bills? Like if they waited until the next state election cycle and still reelected under platform of banning abortion, then so be it.

Another argument from random lady on the Friday morning. It’s insulting to say that women can’t be successful unless they choose career over motherhood. This will empower women more now!!! Well not in those exact words but that was her point.
I mean it’s very telling that the ‘let the states decide’ people immediately switched to ‘ban abortion nationwide’ as soon as they got their way.
 
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