News Roe v. Wade overturned

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NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,355
2,893
136
They let the ridiculous Texas vigilante law stand for months before invalidating Roe Vs Wade. This court is capable of anything to advance the GOP agenda.
Please point us to a single case that has been tried on the vigilante part of that law being carried out.. I think I told you this already, go look up the rulings as to why the cases trying to block the Texas law where unsuccessful. Pay specific attention to the ruling language, which mainly applied to the plaintiff.

Do you not realize that all you are doing is continuing to try and prove your assumption as factual. Yet there is zero way to do so, because it's just an assumption. In other words you are wasting your time.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,009
53,277
136
Where did I call you a liar? You don't agree that bringing up a different era (long over a decade ago, and before we had today's SCOTUS makeup) to argue what would happen today is manipulation? What other purpose would trying to use in your argument imply since that has zero relevancy to today's SCOTUS and what they have ruled on?

Where did say presidence? I said legal standing as there is no legal presidence or legal standing that supports your argument. It's never been tried, so you have zero grounds other than full fledge assumptions based off Nothing but feels.

Yes, I have thought it thru, which is why I am not making assumptions as you are. Because I recognize that it would violate not only protections in the constitution, but various federal laws as well as violate state Powers... So sorry, you are not thinking it thru.
You said I am not arguing in good faith which means I am lying about my motivations.

Nothing else you said here is really intelligible.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,009
53,277
136
How can intent be proven? even intent would still have to be based off a legal act outside of their jurasdictin. Are we now using minority report logic?

So you believe they can arrest them for having the intentions of going to a other state to par take in legal activities in that state?

The whole foundation of your argument is still 100% relient on legal activities conducted outside their jurasdiction, with your argument being they have the intent to do something not illegal In another state.
Intent can be proven the same way intent is proven in a multitude of other criminal cases.
 

NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,355
2,893
136
You said I am not arguing in good faith which means I am lying about my motivations.

Nothing else you said here is really intelligible.
How is arguing a different era where the ACA is concerned (over a decade if not two decades ago) that has nothing to do with today's SCOTUS and it's rulings, arguing in good faith? Rather than admitting it doesn't have any relevance, you claim it's not intelligent/intelligible? All you are doing is trying to substantiate your assumptions as if those assumptions are fact, and ignore the examples of the same thing happening where the ACA and Trump's voter fraud crap, that the assumptions where incorrect. Heck, if memory servers, you where part of those assumptions, just as I was. The difference this time is I am not making any assumptions.

If you take that as me calling you a lair, which is not what i did, well then that is on you, and maybe you need to step back and reconsider your argument.
 
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NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,355
2,893
136
Intent can be proven the same way intent is proven in a multitude of other criminal cases.
Doesn't the first step require just cause, to investigate for intent? Where are they going to get just cause to get any proof of intent? Are you arguing that getting pregnant gives them just cause? Are they going to stop every woman driving around and ask them where they are going, what they are doing, if they are pregnant? Are they going to go to the courts and ask for search warrants for their internet history and such based on the fact they are pregnant? Are they going to require all pregnancies to be reported to the authorities? Where is the just cause to investigate for intent?

It doesn't really matter because there is no crime in being pregnant or considering your legal options, which includes those out of state as long as those options are legal in that state.
Having the intent to do something that is legal in another state is not a crime. Having the intent of traveling outside of the state is not a crime. The whole foundation of such a law is based on legal activities outside the states jurisdiction and not illegal or criminal in that outside state. Your argument has no merit.

Seriously, step back and think. You are trying to argue about a imaginary law that is fully based on legal activities outside of that states jurasdiction.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
25,116
14,622
136
Doesn't the first step require just cause, to investigate for intent? Where are they going to get just cause to get any proof of intent? Are you arguing that getting pregnant gives them just cause? Are they going to stop every woman driving around and ask them where they are going, what they are doing, if they are pregnant? Are they going to go to the courts and ask for search warrants for their internet history and such based on the fact they are pregnant? Are they going to require all pregnancies to be reported to the authorities? Where is the just cause to investigate for intent?

It doesn't really matter because there is no crime in being pregnant or considering your legal options, which includes those out of state as long as those options are legal in that state.
Having the intent to do something that is legal in another state is not a crime. Having the intent of traveling outside of the state is not a crime. The whole foundation of such a law is based on legal activities outside the states jurisdiction and not illegal or criminal in that outside state. Your argument has no merit.

Seriously, step back and think. You are trying to argue about a imaginary law that is fully based on legal activities outside of that states jurasdiction.

They're going to buy location data from big data apps and easily de-anonymize it. I'd be very surprised if a fleet of nerd Incels is not already on generating just such on api for semi public use. Gravity sucks, water is wet, of course they are.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
25,116
14,622
136
Thought experiment.

Suppose dems manage to keep the house.
Suppose dems manage to pick up two-three seats in the Senate.

Suppose Biden flip-flops on packing the court.

25th?
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,818
12,077
136
Thought experiment.

Suppose dems manage to keep the house.
Suppose dems manage to pick up two-three seats in the Senate.

Suppose Biden flip-flops on packing the court.

25th?
25th? as in amendment? that's to remove a president. which why would anyone invoke?

or are you referencing something else that i'm totally missing?
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
25,116
14,622
136
25th? as in amendment? that's to remove a president. which why would anyone invoke?

or are you referencing something else that i'm totally missing?

Nope you got it
How important is it to expand the court? If Biden back flips on the issue as sole obstacle to get it done... What will you do? Anything? (Knife to a gun fight and all that)... Or would the repercussions be too severe?
It just seems to me that getting the SC aligned is mission critical and top of list.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,009
53,277
136
Nope you got it
How important is it to expand the court? If Biden back flips on the issue as sole obstacle to get it done... What will you do? Anything? (Knife to a gun fight and all that)... Or would the repercussions be too severe?
It just seems to me that getting the SC aligned is mission critical and top of list.
25th amendment requires a 2/3rds vote so the bar for that is higher than to expand the court.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
50,978
42,858
136
Please point us to a single case that has been tried on the vigilante part of that law being carried out.. I think I told you this already, go look up the rulings as to why the cases trying to block the Texas law where unsuccessful. Pay specific attention to the ruling language, which mainly applied to the plaintiff.

Is this for real? The intent of the law was clearly to make clinics and doctors afraid to operate and it worked. If you can make people sufficiently fearful you don't even actually have to sue, just the threat is enough.

All this legalistic handwringing is farcical in the face of a court that is just making up its own facts about cases when the law can't be sufficiently contorted for what they want. Just impotence and denial personified.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,333
10,844
136
In other words you are wasting your time

That would be anyone even bothering to read your posts.



Is this for real? The intent of the law was clearly to make clinics and doctors afraid to operate and it worked. If you can make people sufficiently fearful you don't even actually have to sue, just the threat is enough.

All this legalistic handwringing is farcical in the face of a court that is just making up its own facts about cases when the law can't be sufficiently contorted for what they want. Just impotence and denial personified.


Arguing with this clown only lends him (slight) credibility.... he's living proof that a 2001 join-date is no indication of being perceptive or intelligent.

Moonie makes more in the way of valid points.
 
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dlerious

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2004
2,029
851
136
Thought experiment.

Suppose dems manage to keep the house.
Suppose dems manage to pick up two-three seats in the Senate.

Suppose Biden flip-flops on packing the court.

25th?
Kamala Harris as President? Isn't she the queen of flip-flops?
 

eelw

Lifer
Dec 4, 1999
10,152
5,255
136
Nope you got it
How important is it to expand the court? If Biden back flips on the issue as sole obstacle to get it done... What will you do? Anything? (Knife to a gun fight and all that)... Or would the repercussions be too severe?
It just seems to me that getting the SC aligned is mission critical and top of list.
Unnecessary. If Dems get the 2 Senate pickups, fillibuster is gone. They will be able to push through federal abortion bill, BBB and stronger gun legislation. And voters will see what Dems can do and will continue to pickup seats in 2024. Get the supermajority in the Senate so they can impeach justices. Swing court back to 5-4 and Roberts can't do anything about it.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,162
136
Suppose dems manage to keep the house.
Suppose dems manage to pick up two-three seats in the Senate.

Suppose Biden flip-flops on packing the court.

If Dems could pick up seats then packing the court shouldn't be necessary. Couldn't a majority and certainly a super majority pass whatever laws needed to protect women's abortion rights and also SS marriage rights as well?

If the congress passes laws counteracting or conflicting with US supreme court rulings then is that not the final say? Can congress pass any laws it wants to that would be SCOTUS immune? Who has the last word, congress and its laws or SCOTUS rulings? I though it was congress.

If it is not congress having the final say then why would dems holding a super majority feel they could pass new laws protecting abortion rights? Would not SCOTUS just shoot any new laws down?

And if SCOTUS does have the power of the final say then that would be pretty bad for democracy. That would give the supreme court the power to determine what laws the country operates under. The high court would in fact be making the laws as well as deciding the laws, thus anything congress might do would be moot.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,259
4,499
136
Who has the last word, congress and its laws or SCOTUS rulings? I though it was congress.
SCOTUS has final say. They can declare any law unconstitutional and the only solution would be an amendment, which requires much more than a supermajority, it requires ratification by the states. Since the current court does not feel it needs to be constrained by any given reading of the Constitution, or even the facts, it will be easy to call anything they feel like unconstitutional.
 

dlerious

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2004
2,029
851
136
Unnecessary. If Dems get the 2 Senate pickups, fillibuster is gone. They will be able to push through federal abortion bill, BBB and stronger gun legislation. And voters will see what Dems can do and will continue to pickup seats in 2024. Get the supermajority in the Senate so they can impeach justices. Swing court back to 5-4 and Roberts can't do anything about it.
I saw an idea that actually sounded decent. Federal judges are appointed for life (with some exceptions), but there's nothing saying members of SCOTUS can only be supreme court justices, so rotate them out. Serve x amount on supreme court, then move to another federal court and bring another federal judge in.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
13,059
10,365
136
SCOTUS has final say. They can declare any law unconstitutional and the only solution would be an amendment, which requires much more than a supermajority, it requires ratification by the states. Since the current court does not feel it needs to be constrained by any given reading of the Constitution, or even the facts, it will be easy to call anything they feel like unconstitutional.

SCOTUS has "final say" only if everyone else agrees to go along. Given that they seem to be on a path of inconsistency/hypocrisy, it isn't outrageous to suggest that someone may just decide to ignore what they say on certain subjects. Wouldn't be the first time, and who is going to enforce it?
 
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eelw

Lifer
Dec 4, 1999
10,152
5,255
136
I saw an idea that actually sounded decent. Federal judges are appointed for life (with some exceptions), but there's nothing saying members of SCOTUS can only be supreme court justices, so rotate them out. Serve x amount on supreme court, then move to another federal court and bring another federal judge in.
Why move them if one has the votes to remove them!!!! First the drunk frat boy then the one with the crazy wife. Well crosses fingers in 2024
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,259
4,499
136
SCOTUS has "final say" only if everyone else agrees to go along. Given that they seem to be on a path of inconsistency/hypocrisy, it isn't outrageous to suggest that someone may just decide to ignore what they say on certain subjects. Wouldn't be the first time, and who is going to enforce it?
That is true for anything isn't it? What if we all just decided to ignore Congress?
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
13,059
10,365
136
That is true for anything isn't it? What if we all just decided to ignore Congress?

Executive already does on occasion. For example, DOJ not enforcing certain issues. It's up to the executive really, which was my point. With the court openly demonstrating their illegitimacy it becomes a valid consideration.
 
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