News Roe v. Wade overturned

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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
16,667
15,612
146
Cops will beat the shit out of protesters but when you need them to take out a shooter murdering children in a school they just guard the fucking parking lot. Biggest waste of money ever.
Remember when the whole 'defund the police' thing was going on and a bunch of center-liners were brow-furrowing at the extremist liberals? Pepperidge farm remembers.
 

kt

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2000
6,031
1,346
136
I know some of them and they are mystified how their parents and friends have changed. They spent their formative years in the 90's being told by parents and authority figures that personal morality for elected officials was of paramount importance only to see those same people embrace the most utterly immoral person ever to hold the presidency, usually excusing it by either claiming all his immoral acts never happened or that he had become a true Christian now so it was all fine. The same people who said moral relativism was a great sickness infecting the country threw that out the window too.

It was very difficult for one friend of mine to accept that to a lot of her fellow church members Christianity is important, but not as important as the broader social movement so when they came into conflict, Christianity gave way.
It's easy for Christianity to give way because they made it easy. Just repent and all sins are wiped clean whether the sinner is sincere or not. It's no wonder why conservatives are so good at being terrible liars.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
14,538
9,381
136
SCOTUS has final say. They can declare any law unconstitutional and the only solution would be an amendment, which requires much more than a supermajority, it requires ratification by the states. Since the current court does not feel it needs to be constrained by any given reading of the Constitution, or even the facts, it will be easy to call anything they feel like unconstitutional.

Seems that it's next-to-impossible to pass an amendment under the US system. Is it not the case that most of the existing ones were only passed either during the initial period of debate before the Constitution was even ratified, or in the aftermath of of one of the bloodiest civil wars in history?

In any case, even if an amendment were passed, would the Court not be able to effectively ignore it by constructing some nonsensical legal argument around it? As things stand it looks as if (the majority on) the Court can do whatever it wants, with no constraints at all, other than, I suppose, fear of unlawful violent reprisals.

Seems like its getting into the area of a general problem with Constitutions, and indeed all formal systems of rules.

There's no Constitution that can't be subverted. Ultimately they all depend for their stability and survival on things outside themselves (in this case, the culture and attitudes of the population, and what they are prepared to tolerate). I wonder if that is related to Godel and all that philosophical-mathematical stuff?
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
39,860
9,573
136
Seems that it's next-to-impossible to pass an amendment under the US system. Is it not the case that most of the existing ones were only passed either during the initial period of debate before the Constitution was even ratified, or in the aftermath of of one of the bloodiest civil wars in history?

In any case, even if an amendment were passed, would the Court not be able to effectively ignore it by constructing some nonsensical legal argument around it? As things stand it looks as if (the majority on) the Court can do whatever it wants, with no constraints at all, other than, I suppose, fear of unlawful violent reprisals.

Seems like its getting into the area of a general problem with Constitutions, and indeed all formal systems of rules.

There's no Constitution that can't be subverted. Ultimately they all depend for their stability and survival on things outside themselves (in this case, the culture and attitudes of the population, and what they are prepared to tolerate). I wonder if that is related to Godel and all that philosophical-mathematical stuff?
I think it's a mistake that the SCOTUS is populated by people who are given lifetime tenure after confirmations that can be based on prevarication. The 3 justices nominated and confirmed by Donald Trump all indicated that they had no misgivings concerning Roe Vs. Wade before they were confirmed, but after being seated, when the chips were down, they did an about face. There should be a term limit on the SCOTUS. Off the top of my head, 7 years would seem liberal. 4 might work much better. The current court (after appointment shenanigans by the Republican Party) is stacked with people with no moral compass and no understanding of their obligations. The same can be said for 99% of the officials of the Republican Party. We here in the USA are in a jam.
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
8,546
7,171
136
I know some of them and they are mystified how their parents and friends have changed. They spent their formative years in the 90's being told by parents and authority figures that personal morality for elected officials was of paramount importance only to see those same people embrace the most utterly immoral person ever to hold the presidency, usually excusing it by either claiming all his immoral acts never happened or that he had become a true Christian now so it was all fine. The same people who said moral relativism was a great sickness infecting the country threw that out the window too.

It was very difficult for one friend of mine to accept that to a lot of her fellow church members Christianity is important, but not as important as the broader social movement so when they came into conflict, Christianity gave way.

Honestly, I blame right wing radio. I have seen it very quickly transform normal family members into right wingers angry at everything as soon as our big news station moved from running local programming to national over emotional right wing crap like Limbaugh and Hannity in the mid 90s.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
19,408
6,432
136
As a “fun” fact in the Danish kingdom abortion is actually illegal on the Faroe Islands, so even in this oh so liberal Denmark, we actually have a part our kingdom were abortion is illegal.

Abortion on the Faroe Islands is still governed by the Danish law of 1956, which restricts abortions to the aforementioned three circumstances (pregnancy harmful or fatal to the mother, high risk for birth defects, or a pregnancy borne out of rape), as Danish politicians were historically unwilling to impose the Danish abortion law on the more conservative Faroese population.[9][10] Abortion policy was formally devolved to the Faroese Parliament in 2018.[11][12]
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,881
31,979
136
...

If you try to take a purely "scientific" approach... Then what makes taking the life inside the womb ok, but not after it's left?
What scientific voodoo are you going to point to to say when precisely individual rights do or don't apply?
The right to bodily integrity. You cannot be forced to donate blood to save a life. We cannot harvest organs from dead people without their express written consent even to save a life. A woman deserves the same control over who gets to use her body to survive.
 

dlerious

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2004
2,029
851
136
Why move them if one has the votes to remove them!!!! First the drunk frat boy then the one with the crazy wife. Well crosses fingers in 2024
You need not less than 2/3 of the Senate to impeach - that's 67 votes. I don't know if there's a legal way to appoint them to another federal court with something like term limits - appointment for x years and if they die or are impeached before that, the replacement just fills out the remainder of the term.

For packing the court, how many would they add? The Bruen decision was 6-3, suggesting a minimum of 4. Could the democrats get 50 votes to add that many? Of course, the Republicans could do the same and add even more if they ever get control of the House and Senate since the president has no say (Article III of constitution).
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,090
53,438
136
You need not less than 2/3 of the Senate to impeach - that's 67 votes. I don't know if there's a legal way to appoint them to another federal court with something like term limits - appointment for x years and if they die or are impeached before that, the replacement just fills out the remainder of the term.

For packing the court, how many would they add? The Bruen decision was 6-3, suggesting a minimum of 4. Could the democrats get 50 votes to add that many? Of course, the Republicans could do the same and add even more if they ever get control of the House and Senate since the president has no say (Article III of constitution).
Wouldn’t matter if they got control of the House and Senate - they couldn’t appoint anyone to fill the vacancies.

That being said, the threat of future Republican expansion of the court is nothing to fear. Then at least both parties are on equal ground, unlike now.
 

dlerious

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2004
2,029
851
136
There was a video i saw somewhere yesterday about this and FDR and even some other presidents doing just that. Cant find it now though. Maybe it was on here lol
FDR wanted Congress to pass a bill allowing him to appoint a new justice for everyone at least 70 years old. They refused.
 
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gothuevos

Diamond Member
Jul 28, 2010
3,080
2,277
136
Wouldn’t matter if they got control of the House and Senate - they couldn’t appoint anyone to fill the vacancies.

That being said, the threat of future Republican expansion of the court is nothing to fear. Then at least both parties are on equal ground, unlike now.

So we might one day have a 500 member SCOTUS?
 

dlerious

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2004
2,029
851
136
Wouldn’t matter if they got control of the House and Senate - they couldn’t appoint anyone to fill the vacancies.

That being said, the threat of future Republican expansion of the court is nothing to fear. Then at least both parties are on equal ground, unlike now.
They can't appoint anyone, but they also don't have to confirm either - see Merrick Garland.
 
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