Ron Paul for President

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Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
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I know I've asked in other threads. But If you're a Ron Paul detractor, please include in your post who you intend to vote for in 2012. Alot of people would like to laugh at whichever person you're going to vote for since they are all a complete joke.

True. Bush's third term here courtesy of Mr. Obama should be a crystal clear fountain of evidence that it doesn't matter which asshole from the usual suspects gets in, we still get a rusty pipe shoved up our rear ends in the end.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
to avoid being global police.

That's one thing I wouldn't mind see end. It's almost expected of us though because (I'm pretty sure) we spend the most money maintaining our army, so we better damn well spend even more to use it.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,632
50,851
136
That's one thing I wouldn't mind see end. It's almost expected of us though because (I'm pretty sure) we spend the most money maintaining our army, so we better damn well spend even more to use it.

You guys all realize that we aren't the global police out of the goodness of our hearts, right? We do it to enforce our interests, not because we're some put upon cop figure.
 

IceBergSLiM

Lifer
Jul 11, 2000
29,932
3
81
You guys all realize that we aren't the global police out of the goodness of our hearts, right? We do it to enforce our interests, not because we're some put upon cop figure.

"our" interests as in "we the people"? it is war for profit no doubt just not "our" profit.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,290
352
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"our" interests as in "we the people"? it is war for profit no doubt just not "our" profit.

He has a Machiavellian view on government, he likes it to be big and strong as if it were his favorite boxer or football team. He feels safe so long as he feels he understands why it is big and powerful.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,632
50,851
136
He has a Machiavellian view on government, he likes it to be big and strong as if it were his favorite boxer or football team. He feels safe so long as he feels he understands why it is big and powerful.

What are you babbling about now? I'm one of the biggest civil libertarians on this board. If people on this board spent a lot less time trying to tell others what they think and more time refining their own thoughts, we'd be a lot better off.

How's the RON PAUL REVOLUTION coming, anyway? Last time I checked you guys were hovering right around 8 percent in primary polling! Keep up the good work, I'm sure the REVOLUTION is almost at hand.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
Sure!

1.) Return to the gold standard or other commodity based currency. (he thinks paper money is unconstitutional, hahahaha)
2.) Is against UHC.
3.) Is a global warming denier.
4.) Is an evolution doubter.
5.) Is anti-abortion.

I could go on, but I don't feel like writing any more on someone who really doesn't matter.

And none of that is part of his campaign. He understands that the way we do things now financially is going to ruin this country, and it is. A lot of people are against UHC, as well as the fact MMGW is a scam. His views on evolution, and abortion are not relevant, he isn't going to be making any policies that have anything remotely to do with either.
 

SlitheryDee

Lifer
Feb 2, 2005
17,252
19
81
His views on evolution, and abortion are not relevant, he isn't going to be making any policies that have anything remotely to do with either.

I thought everyone would know this by now. One of the foundations of his philosophy is that such things have no place in government. It's one of his most often repeated statements. He's always been consistent in that, and pretty much everything else he says.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,632
50,851
136
And none of that is part of his campaign. He understands that the way we do things now financially is going to ruin this country, and it is. A lot of people are against UHC, as well as the fact MMGW is a scam. His views on evolution, and abortion are not relevant, he isn't going to be making any policies that have anything remotely to do with either.

Well that's clearly untrue. As president he would be nominating supreme court justices, and they absolutely would have an impact on abortion.

I don't care about your faith that global warming is a scam, and it's fine if lots of people are against UHC. Ron Paul has a cartoonish, fringe understanding of economics that would be highly dangerous to the world economy if he ever had a chance to implement it.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,290
352
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Examples?

Eskimo's feeling is that the entire Austrian school of economics is cartoonish and "flintstone phone" economics, no basis in scientific reasoning and that Mises had a laughable understanding of epistemology as shown in his magnum opus (laugh) Human Action.

So anybody in any way associated with the Austrian school automatically has invalid economic views. Heck even establishment economics disavow MMT as having a troubled view on economics (Krugman has written 2 or 3 blogs on how MMT fails). Neo-keynesians like Steve Keen are almost as bad as Austrians because of Minsky's views on debt.

Edit: whoops I forgot I was supposed to stop figuring out what other people think and work on what I think. Generally good advice but we seem to beat Austrian vs establishment economics to death almost every day on this forum.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
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I get your a youtube scholar.

What university did you goto that allow you to cite youtube in your academic work?

lol wat? Why are words directly from Ron Paul's mouth not sufficient and why does it matter that Youtube happens to host those videos? Note how this is different than learning a discipline based on the random rantings of a Youtube user.

The financial system is collapsing right now do you read the paper or just watch you tube?

Please delineate how the financial system is collapsing again? Last I heard BOA made a $6.2B profit their last quarter and all the bailed out banks in general are flush with cash.

We are teetering on the edge of a cliff. The slightest of nudges and this deck of cards is coming down. It might come down anyways.

Can I laugh at you and bump this thread when you're wrong?

Please show me a graph detailing the value of the dollar since 1913. The fiat system has been debasing the currency through inflation. inflation adjusted, blue collar wages are lower than they've been in 30 years!

Cite your BS claims kiddo.

Btw, I like how you wimped out of addressing how wrong Paul was in all those House rantings.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
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Oh, and for the Paul nuts that still think his economics are legitimate, can anyone explain why there are no Austrian economics departments at any major, respected universities if this is a serious discipline dedicated to creating economic models that accurately predict micro and macro economic fluctuations year-to-year? Does anyone seriously believe there's not a single good reason Austrian econ is a dead-end research-wise at every single major university in the country? I just find that kind of faith laughably naive, almost child-like.
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
What are you babbling about now? I'm one of the biggest civil libertarians on this board. If people on this board spent a lot less time trying to tell others what they think and more time refining their own thoughts, we'd be a lot better off.

How's the RON PAUL REVOLUTION coming, anyway? Last time I checked you guys were hovering right around 8 percent in primary polling! Keep up the good work, I'm sure the REVOLUTION is almost at hand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVt2lHCcZxc&feature=related
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
Well that's clearly untrue. As president he would be nominating supreme court justices, and they absolutely would have an impact on abortion.

False, just like just about every other thing you have claimed in this thread. He doesn't believe those things have any place in federal government, and doesn't do law by his personal feelings.

I don't care about your faith that global warming is a scam, and it's fine if lots of people are against UHC. Ron Paul has a cartoonish, fringe understanding of economics that would be highly dangerous to the world economy if he ever had a chance to implement it.

Yea, because your support of the current administrations failure of policy really lends some credibility to your claims. Let's just keep on the same track of rampant spending, and debt, that will get the country back on track.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,290
352
126
Oh, and for the Paul nuts that still think his economics are legitimate, can anyone explain why there are no Austrian economics departments at any major, respected universities if this is a serious discipline dedicated to creating economic models that accurately predict micro and macro economic fluctuations year-to-year? Does anyone seriously believe there's not a single good reason Austrian econ is a dead-end research-wise at every single major university in the country? I just find that kind of faith laughably naive, almost child-like.

http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/pboettke/bio.html
http://econ.as.nyu.edu/object/rs_austrian.html

If you want to also look at research being done on a neo-keynesian level you can look for Steve Keen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Keen
He follows the works of Hyman Minsky. Establishment economics is slowly eroding, just make sure you aren't the last person on the boat when it finally sinks and you'll be okay.
 

MooseNSquirrel

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2009
2,587
318
126
He would have been an awesome candidate back in the 19th century.

Unfortunately its not 1830 and the world has changed considerably.

Maybe if we return to a disconnected world where economies dont intersect so much with each other and citizens can handle their own massive natural disasters then he would be a viable candidate then.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
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According to his own bio page it doesn't look like Boettke has done any recognized research, and Rizzo has been widely debunked (no idea he as at NYU, sadly for NYU). Of course the point is moot if 2 Austrians is the best you've got.

If you want to also look at research being done on a neo-keynesian level you can look for Steve Keen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Keen
He follows the works of Hyman Minsky. Establishment economics is slowly eroding, just make sure you aren't the last person on the boat when it finally sinks and you'll be okay.

It's not slowly eroding in any real sense that Austrians have been able to show or prove. That's just empirical fact.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,290
352
126
According to his own bio page it doesn't look like Boettke has done any recognized research, and Rizzo has been widely debunked (no idea he as at NYU, sadly for NYU). Of course the point is moot if 2 Austrians is the best you've got.



It's not slowly eroding in any real sense that Austrians have been able to show or prove. That's just empirical fact.

If your only measure is how much empirical research they are putting out, then we're having a pointless discussion. Also to imply that the discussion on whether or not economics should be studied on an a priori level vs posteriori has been settled is premature but obviously many of us have been trained to think it has been.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
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If your only measure is how much empirical research they are putting out, then we're having a pointless discussion.

Explain why empirical research is a pointless discussion?

Also to imply that the discussion on whether or not economics should be studied on an a priori level vs posteriori has been settled is premature but obviously many of us have been trained to think it has been.

How has the Austrian theory of economics been able to predict current and prior periods of financial turmoil?

Cite yours without youtube.

Already done, those are CSPAN videos kid.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,290
352
126
Explain why empirical research is a pointless discussion?
Think of Mises's writings on praxeology and epistemology and I think you'll undertand. You don't even have to actually read it, just wiki it.

How has the Austrian theory of economics been able to predict current and prior periods of financial turmoil?
How has any form of economics been able to? All establishment economics try to do is fit models to historical data which tells us nothing about how that model will predict future data. Austrian economics recognizes that fitting models to data can lead to false premises looking correct.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
Think of Mises's writings on praxeology and epistemology and I think you'll undertand. You don't even have to actually read it, just wiki it.

I already knew the answer, I was just curious if you'd finally come out and say Austrians offer no true econometrics or arithmetic to show their models are empirically accurate.

How has any form of economics been able to? All establishment economics try to do is fit models to historical data which tells us nothing about how that model will predict future data. Austrian economics recognizes that fitting models to data can lead to false premises looking correct.

Plenty have been accurate, particularly any combination of neo-Keynesian and classical aggregate demand economics. And no, historical data is a fantastic predictor of future returns; see Jeremy Siegel's work on equity returns in the United States since 1806 here http://www.amazon.com/Stocks-Long-Ru...=AG56TWVU5XWC2. If all else is equal, if the context is generally the same and if the foundation of the various working parts of the world economies in question haven't fundamentally changed, they are very accurate predictors, and this isn't opinion this is documentable fact.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,290
352
126
I already knew the answer, I was just curious if you'd finally come out and say Austrians offer no true econometrics or arithmetic to show their models are empirically accurate.



Plenty have been accurate, particularly any combination of neo-Keynesian and classical aggregate demand economics. And no, historical data is a fantastic predictor of future returns; see Jeremy Siegel's work on equity returns in the United States since 1806 here http://www.amazon.com/Stocks-Long-Ru...=AG56TWVU5XWC2. If all else is equal, if the context is generally the same and if the foundation of the various working parts of the world economies in question haven't fundamentally changed, they are very accurate predictors, and this isn't opinion this is documentable fact.

Now you're just being crazy. The test of economic theory has nothing to do with empirical evidence and testing econometric models, that's begging the question in that you are awarding yourself the initial premise that economics should even be evaluated that way. The fact remains that empiricism in economics is not a settled discussion.
 
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