Rough performance boost from upgrading?

[pinchthings]

Hi,

My desktop is getting a little dated, and I was wondering what kind of percentage increase in performance I could expect from upgrading to the latest hardware. Here is what I'm running now:

Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit
Nehalem/Bloomfield Core i7 920, 2.6Ghz /w stock fan
ASUS P6T X58 mobo
Radeon HD 6950
O/S & games are on 2x 500GB SATA II 7200RPM HDDs
6 GB triple channel DDR3
Typical gaming resolution: 1680x1050

I've been running this system since 2009 and the only thing I upgraded was the OS and the video card.

If you were to estimate (or have benchmark links) upgrading from my vintage hardware to current generation gear, where do I get the biggest bang for my buck?

If I were to upgrade, I might imagine getting a Radeon HD 7950 or GTX 660 Ti, i7 3770, mobo with USB 3.0, 8GB ram, 128 GB SSD, and 1TB HDD . The other interest I have is in quiet operation and moving to a smaller (microatx perhaps) case size.

 

[Termie]

What games do you play, and in which ones are you experiencing issues, if any? Also, what's your overall budget?

One of my older systems is a stock i7-920 running a brand-new HD7870. It's a great combination. I think that's about as high as I'd go on a stock 920, though, and frankly, the 7870 is only about 25% faster than a 6950, so it's not a great upgrade. The cards you've targeted (7950 and 660Ti) are bigger upgrades (~40%), but you should really overclock the CPU a bit, especially at your resolution, to get the most out of them.

If you have an interest in going mATX (and I don't blame you, because that's what I did with my last upgrade), I'd say wait until the next generation of Intel Haswell processors comes out in June, and then buy a whole new system.

Here are some rough approximations:
(1) An HD7950, as noted above, is about 40% faster than your card.
(2) An i7-3770K is about 55% faster than your CPU, but that only comes into play in certain games, like Battlefield 3 multiplayer and Crysis 3. In most games, your CPU certainly isn't holding back your current setup.

Here's my thread on upgrading from an 860 to a 3770 with a few benchmarks: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2257414

The biggest improvement you'll get out of all the upgrades you mentioned is moving to an SSD. Not for gaming (other than cutting load times in half), but for everything else you use your computer for.

 

[pinchthings]

Games right now: Skyrim, BF3, D3, dwarf fortress (hey, it can be a resource hog too), metro 2033, various steam games.

Actually, my games aren't bothering me that much...pretty good performance from everything on max or near max graphics settings. General computer performance is starting to drag a bit, even with the recent OS upgrade from vista to 7. So in these cases probably SSD and CPU/mobo platform would bring the most benefit.

But one of my future possible uses for the new rig would be either hooking up to either a projector or my HDTV for gaming. I don't know if these kind of displays require a beefer GPU than I already have. As I said, at least for a 22" LCD monitor @ 180x1050, gaming performance is good.

 

[DaveSimmons]

You'd notice moving your games to a SSD -- on mine the area load screens are so fast I can never read the gameplay tips. (i5-2500 and Samsung 830 256 GB SSD)

That CPU is also a bit slow compared to a sandy or ivy bridge 3.x GHz. FYI, 2 x 4 GB RAM = 8 GB is still plenty for games.

If you're happy with games now, you could hold off on replacing the video card until after the summer / fall cards are released.

 

[Termie]

Games right now: Skyrim, BF3, D3, dwarf fortress (hey, it can be a resource hog too), metro 2033, various steam games.

Actually, my games aren't bothering me that much...pretty good performance from everything on max or near max graphics settings. General computer performance is starting to drag a bit, even with the recent OS upgrade from vista to 7. So in these cases probably SSD and CPU/mobo platform would bring the most benefit.

But one of my future possible uses for the new rig would be either hooking up to either a projector or my HDTV for gaming. I don't know if these kind of displays require a beefer GPU than I already have. As I said, at least for a 22" LCD monitor @ 180x1050, gaming performance is good.

Sounds like what you really need is an SSD, and for that, you really should upgrade to Win7 or Win8, as Vista doesn't allow for ideal performance on an SSD. It's a good opportunity to wipe your system clean anyway.

Gaming on a projector or HDTV just means 1920x1080, and your GPU is still pretty capable of that type of gaming given your selection of games. Assuming this is going to be in a living room or something to that effect, I'd aim to build a compact system and retire the i7-920 (or leave your current rig as is).

My suggestion: buy an SSD now, remove your current hard drives, do a clean install with a new OS, and then put your old hard drives back in once you get a new system so you can move the SSD to that system.

 

[RaistlinZ]

I'd buy an SSD now, overclock your CPU and do a full upgrade to Haswell if I were in your position.

 

[mnewsham]

For now I would get an SSD and a 1920x1080 monitor, then look at the market when haswell releases.

 

[Cerb]

Thirded, or fourthed, or whatever. A clean install onto a nice new shiny (or matte, depending on brand ) SSD, big enough for your OS and several games (240 to 512GB), will be much better money spent than a forklift upgrade, right now.

If you have the money for a forklift upgrade, also add a new 1-2TB 7200RPM HDD, which also be noticeably faster than your 500GBs.

You'd benefit from a major upgrade, but if you're not having game performance issues, probably not enough to make it worth the money.

P.S. Yes, note that you should install Windows with only the SSD installed. Sometimes it likes to put the bootloader, or the small system partition, on another disk, for unknown reasons. Just having 1 hooked up prevents that.

 

[mfenn]

Fifth the SSD recommendation. The OP states that he is currently running Windows 7 now, but an SSD upgrade is a good time to do a fresh install anyway. The Corsair Neutron 256GB at $200 is a reasonable deal for a consistent 256 GB drive. You could also spend less on a 120GB drive like this Samsung 840.

 

[Termie]

Fifth the SSD recommendation. The OP states that he is currently running Windows 7 now, but an SSD upgrade is a good time to do a fresh install anyway. The Corsair Neutron 256GB at $200 is a reasonable deal for a consistent 256 GB drive. You could also spend less on a 120GB drive like this Samsung 840.

Sorry, somehow I misread that. No OS upgrade necessary but a clean install should still be performed.

The SSD recommendations above are very good.

 

[Sporinator]

These guys are steering you right.

If you can wait until the Fall to do a Fresh Build that would be best for now.

Just getting an SSD installed will make you think you have brand new machine.

I know I'll catch FLAK for this, but after doing a FRESH OS install with ONLY the SSD hooked up and the other HDD's removed, I'd suggest setting up those two 500GB in a RAID 0/Stripped using Windows Software RAID in the Disk Manager.

It will almost DOUBLE the read/write speeds of the drive which will now be a 1TB Volume and essentially breath some more life/PEP into them for FREE.

Plus, with the Windows RAID you can take that two drive array to ANY other Windows 7 system and it will be recognized. (Not sure if this is Bit dependent though. Haven't tried taking say a 32 bit OS Array over to a 64 bit OS or vise versa.)

BTW, when you do the CLEAN INSTALL be CERTAIN to set your BIOS for AHCI mode BEFORE you install Windows. That way Windows will automatically load the ACHI driver for the SSD. This enables Windows to make use of the TRIM function on the SSD. Which will help the SSD stay up to SPEED over time. I'd also suggest Provisioning at least 15% but up to 25% of the available disk volume.

In other words, if you get a 256GB drive and when Windows wants to partition it during the install and it shows say 239GB of unallocated space you should set up a NEW partition of 204GB and then install onto that partition. Also try to make sure that the SSD is on SATA port 0 as Windows likes to have the OS on Drive Zero.

The unallocated space you left will AUTOMATICALLY be used during writes and for the TRIM function to keep your drive FAST and also extend the life of the drive.


That way for say $200 (256GB SSD) on the CHEAP you can make your system about 40% faster or more with just the SSD and putting those HDD's into a Software RAID with the OS.

Then just keep saving up for a new Build when all the Latest and Greatest are released in the Fall like DDR 4 ram and like.

Heck, by then the Crucial M500 960GB SSD that's selling for $599 right now should come down in price.


For the SSD I would suggest the Samsung 840 Pro (Any Size,but the link is to the 256GB which is on sale right now and I think the Cart Price is like $199.) for my Number One pick for SPEED, Reliability, and LONGEVITY.

The Corsair Neutron series would be second. The GTX in that line has faster Write speeds. But the read speeds are close between the two in the line.

The Crucial M500 series would be my third pick right now. It'll be sinilar to the Samsung 840 and the Corsiar Neutron as far as Pretty fast reads, but then drops about 30% in writes. (The 840 Pro and the Neutron GTX maintain almost the same read/write speeds which "I" prefer. Especially since it's usually the write speeds that get slower over time on an SSD. But if you set the Over Provisioning I spoke of up AND make that AHCI is enabled in the BIOS and that windows has installed and is using those drivers, that should NEVER be any noticeable problem with any of the three drive series above.)

If you want stability, reliability, and some longevity I would stick with those three above. I would steer you AWAY from ANYTHING OCZ. Still too many bugs with the line. Even the New Vector from the early reviews. Maybe some firmware updates will fix them, but why Pay and then PRAY?!!! LOL

The only other suggestioj I would have is that if you don't already have an External HDD large enough to backup the SSD and 1TB RAID I'd suggest picking up a "2TB" External USB 3.0 drive so that Windows Backup and/or Acronis can create FULL system images on a regular, now hear this..... DAILY Basis. lol

The 3 & 4TB externals are NOT playing well with Windows 7 Backup and some versions of Acronis.

And don't EVEN think about or Heaven Forbid!!, DO the Reformat to 512k sectors in order to FORCE them to work. Data integrity will become an issue in time and that is NOT what you want in a backup. Not even the "So-Called" Western Digital download "FIX" will work correctly. It just does the No-No format for you.


TTFN (Ta Ta For Now)

 

[pinchthings]

If I wanted to install an SSD on my existing computer, would windows 7 still recognize it at the "same" for license purposes? I have a legal ISO of windows 7 laying around on a memory stick somewhere, but I know for license purposes if you change too many components of your computer it no longer considers you in the same PC.

 

[TY-1]

You should be fine adding an SSD to your existing build. Windows 7 should have no problem recognizing it and licensing is not an issue for it.

 

[mnewsham]

If I wanted to install an SSD on my existing computer, would windows 7 still recognize it at the "same" for license purposes? I have a legal ISO of windows 7 laying around on a memory stick somewhere, but I know for license purposes if you change too many components of your computer it no longer considers you in the same PC.

The OS should be tied to motherboard IIRC, changing HDD/SSD should be fine, I have even called microsoft and told them i was replacing a drive and i needed to do a fresh install so could they please activate it (they did).

 

[pinchthings]

Okay that's good to know about the license. I looked up my motherboard and chipset specs and it looks like it supports ACHI for SSDs and has an integrated RAID controller (we'll see).

The only thing I'm unfamiliar with is putting the O/S on a new drive. Usually I just build completely new PCs instead of upgrading the current one, so I've never had to do this. If I bought an SSD, how would I go about moving my Win7 install to the SSD? Currently, I have my Win7 installed on one of my two 500GB HDDs. My games are mixed across both drives, and my media is exclusively on the 2nd drive. I have an external drive as well that could be used for backup (maybe 360 or 500 GB, can't remember). Any thoughts or links to a similar install guide online?

The other question is...if I go ahead and buy a larger SSD, what games/programs would benefit the most from being on the SSD? I would expect you want the OS, Office, browser all on the SSD, but that's only like 40 GB of space.

 

[mnewsham]

Okay that's good to know about the license. I looked up my motherboard and chipset specs and it looks like it supports ACHI for SSDs and has an integrated RAID controller (we'll see).

The only thing I'm unfamiliar with is putting the O/S on a new drive. Usually I just build completely new PCs instead of upgrading the current one, so I've never had to do this. If I bought an SSD, how would I go about moving my Win7 install to the SSD? Currently, I have my Win7 installed on one of my two 500GB HDDs. My games are mixed across both drives, and my media is exclusively on the 2nd drive. I have an external drive as well that could be used for backup (maybe 360 or 500 GB, can't remember). Any thoughts or links to a similar install guide online?

The other question is...if I go ahead and buy a larger SSD, what games/programs would benefit the most from being on the SSD? I would expect you want the OS, Office, browser all on the SSD, but that's only like 40 GB of space.

I would take everything from your current OS drive that you want to keep, and back that up, then take out the other hdds, install the SSD only, install the OS, get everything working (drivers etc.) then install the other HDDs, then I would reformat the HDD that had W7 installed on it, and you should be left with 1 SSD with OS, 1 storage HDD, and one clean HDD.

 

[pinchthings]

Okay, that is an easy process.

By the way, I found an older (windows XP era) Anandtech benchmark for RAID0 in gaming/productivity type applications and Anand found negligible performance increase for real world applications. So I'll probably just leave the drives independent.

 

[mnewsham]

Okay, that is an easy process.

By the way, I found an older (windows XP era) Anandtech benchmark for RAID0 in gaming/productivity type applications and Anand found negligible performance increase for real world applications. So I'll probably just leave the drives independent.

That would be my advice, no reason to have SSD and RAID 0, your SSD is going to be your performance drive, RAID 0 will just complicate things and probably give you a greater chance of losing all your data (if one drive fails, oops all is gone). If you really needed faster HDD's then I suppose you could set up a RAID 10 array, but again you have no real use for that, especially when you factor in the SSD.

 

[Cerb]

BTW, when you do the CLEAN INSTALL be CERTAIN to set your BIOS for AHCI mode BEFORE you install Windows. That way Windows will automatically load the ACHI driver for the SSD. This enables Windows to make use of the TRIM function on the SSD.

Correction: It enables NCQ, which speeds up any drive a bit, immediately.

TRIM will be passed regardless of SATA mode.

Okay that's good to know about the license. I looked up my motherboard and chipset specs and it looks like it supports ACHI for SSDs and has an integrated RAID controller (we'll see).

The only thing I'm unfamiliar with is putting the O/S on a new drive. Usually I just build completely new PCs instead of upgrading the current one, so I've never had to do this. If I bought an SSD, how would I go about moving my Win7 install to the SSD? Currently, I have my Win7 installed on one of my two 500GB HDDs. My games are mixed across both drives, and my media is exclusively on the 2nd drive. I have an external drive as well that could be used for backup (maybe 360 or 500 GB, can't remember). Any thoughts or links to a similar install guide online?

Since the drives aren't in a RAID, you could just do a new install on the SSD, install your old drives, take ownership of the users folder (just Google about it), and start finding things to copy over. Many program settings will be lost, but your files will be in the same place, but with a different drive letter. So, things like local save games will be under E:\Users\NewYou\My Games\etc., instead of C:\Users\OldYou\My Games\etc.. For some games, especially if you play any older ones, you may need an introduction into VirtualStore, as well (fakes writing to Program Files, for compatibility).

Leaving the drive alone, you could also selectively boot into the old OS, if needed.

To actually move it, you'd need to go through all the same trouble as with XP, aligning the partition, shifting everything, repairing the bootloader, then go turn some stuff off...whereas Windows 7 and newer have provisions for using SSDs right in the installer, so it's generally advisable to just re-install, and take a few hours updating and getting your other programs back, too.

Since you haven't done this before:
http://www.magicaljellybean.com/keyfinder/
Really handy program, and all you have to put up with for this kind of use is a nag screen. It will save your basic machine info, and Windows and Office keys (also some other programs, but saving keys for a wide variety of programs is part of what they offer the pay version for).

The other question is...if I go ahead and buy a larger SSD, what games/programs would benefit the most from being on the SSD? I would expect you want the OS, Office, browser all on the SSD, but that's only like 40 GB of space.

Games that load many files, thrashing your HDD for many seconds, on that first load, will benefit the most. It's the non-games, starting programs, browsing folders, bringing back up an idle program, etc., where the SSD will make the most difference. FPS improvements will be negligible, in most games, but general system responsiveness will be greatly improved.

SSDs are no panacea, but:

Actually, my games aren't bothering me that much...pretty good performance from everything on max or near max graphics settings. General computer performance is starting to drag a bit, even with the recent OS upgrade from vista to 7.

That just screams, "really needs an SSD."

 

[pinchthings]

On the topic of my media HDDs, since these drives have been in my computer since 2009, if I'm going to be getting an SSD upgrade, should go ahead and replace the drives too? Is 4 years asking for a drive failure?

 

[mnewsham]

On the topic of my media HDDs, since these drives have been in my computer since 2009, if I'm going to be getting an SSD upgrade, should go ahead and replace the drives too? Is 4 years asking for a drive failure?

ehhh, I personally would get myself a 1-2TB 7200RPM drive, it will likely be faster than your current drives, and it will have a lot less use

While 4 years isn't really THAT long, it is probably at least 50% of the drives life span.

 

[pinchthings]

After a little more research, I see that my current motherboard only supports SATA II (3 Gb/s) instead of SATA III (6 GB/s). I see that SATA III is backwards compatible, but will notice any real-world performance loss by not having SATA III?

Thanks

 

[mnewsham]

After a little more research, I see that my current motherboard only supports SATA II (3 Gb/s) instead of SATA III (6 GB/s). I see that SATA III is backwards compatible, but will notice any real-world performance loss by not having SATA III?

Thanks

real world? Probably not a whole lot, it will still be a hell of a lot faster than an HDD. In benchmarks you will see it more than any real world usage.

 

[Cerb]

After a little more research, I see that my current motherboard only supports SATA II (3 Gb/s) instead of SATA III (6 GB/s). I see that SATA III is backwards compatible, but will notice any real-world performance loss by not having SATA III?

Thanks

No. Just a little off the top in benchmarks. Even if it had 6Gbps ports (Marvell), you'd be better off using the Intel 3Gbps ones.

 

[mfenn]

I know I'll catch FLAK for this, but after doing a FRESH OS install with ONLY the SSD hooked up and the other HDD's removed, I'd suggest setting up those two 500GB in a RAID 0/Stripped using Windows Software RAID in the Disk Manager.

Yes, you will (and should) catch flak for this suggestion because it's a terrible idea. RAID 0 doubles your chances of catastrophic data loss because you lose everything if either drive fails.

RAID 0 also does not make sense from a performance point of view in the face of SSDs. Hard drives are at least 10 times slower than the most pedestrian SSD. Doubling that slow speed is still slow compared to an SSD, so why bother? Put anything that you want to be fast on the SSD in the first place and leave the HDDs for what they're good at, bulk data storage.