Question RTX 4000/RX 7000 price speculation thread

[moonbogg]

My prediction: The entire generation will be 2-3X msrp on ebay and at retailers. RTX 3000 series will be sold along side the 4000 series because only a few will be buying RTX 4000 series who are willing to pay $1500 for what should be a $300 RTX 4060. Not enough supply to meet demand by a long shot, pricing will be through the Oort cloud. PC gaming is dead. Your thoughts?

 

[Aapje]

You remind me of the folk still happy with B&W TV's, or using quad core CPU's, or playing at 1080P or 1440P in 2022. Fine if you want to - though don't kid yourself that you're not missing out on huge upgrades.

It's rather ridiculous to compare quad cores and 1080p/1440p with black and white TV. You may be a high-end consumer, but there's a whole world out there of people who are having lots of fun with hardware that is a bit less high end. 4k has less than 3% market share in the Steam survey and quad cores are still in use by a third of Steam gamers.

Good luck playing new games at 4k on your 1080ti.

But he doesn't have a 4k screen and may not want to upgrade to that right now. So how is it relevant that his 1080 Ti isn't good at driving a monitor that he doesn't have?

there are, but this would require an open mind and the ability to adapt. How old are you?

Isn't this called irony?

 

[dlerious]

You remind me of the folk still happy with B&W TV's, or using quad core CPU's, or playing at 1080P or 1440P in 2022. Fine if you want to - though don't kid yourself that you're not missing out on huge upgrades.

Good luck playing new games at 4k on your 1080ti. You'll probably answer this with a statement that "no good games to play" - there are, but this would require an open mind and the ability to adapt. How old are you?

Steam has 3840x2160 at 2.6%, 2560x1440 at 11.48%, and 1920x1080 at 67.1% in July. Looks like most are perfectly happy running 1080p. I bet some are even making money playing esports at 1080p. Maybe you can enter a few tournaments and show them what they're missing out on by not going 4k.

 

[DrMrLordX]

or playing at 1080P or 1440P in 2022.

1440p @ 144fps is still legitimately difficult to achieve with high quality settings in some games. There are perfectly good reasons not to be running 4k.

 

[Ranulf]

You remind me of the folk still happy with B&W TV's, or using quad core CPU's, or playing at 1080P or 1440P in 2022. Fine if you want to - though don't kid yourself that you're not missing out on huge upgrades.

Good luck playing new games at 4k on your 1080ti. You'll probably answer this with a statement that "no good games to play" - there are, but this would require an open mind and the ability to adapt. How old are you?

Oh, I'm sure I'm missing out on huge upgrades as it were. I also just don't care to join the rat race to keep up with the Jones' over monitor resolution and FPS status. Most especially when we've not seen a reasonable drop in prices over 6-8 years. GPU makers have called $300+ cards the "Ultimate 1080p" model (5600XT) in the past 2 years. So when you end up having to spend $300-400 every 2-3 years to just keep up to 120fps/144hz at 1080p res., you might wonder if the juice is worth the squeeze at 1440p let alone 4k. A $250-275 card that can maintain 60fps in most titles for 5 years? Thats good value.

Also, the tv analogy doesn't work because economy of scale and the monitor market is seriously insane. TVs are majority 4k now because tv makers have wanted you to upgrade every 3-5 years for 10-15 years now. 4k was pointless for tv up until 2016 when ultra hd/4k blu rays hit the market. Streaming took a couple more years and that is bandwidth intensive and downscaled from most streaming services anyway.

 

[Stuka87]

You remind me of the folk still happy with B&W TV's, or using quad core CPU's, or playing at 1080P or 1440P in 2022. Fine if you want to - though don't kid yourself that you're not missing out on huge upgrades.

Good luck playing new games at 4k on your 1080ti. You'll probably answer this with a statement that "no good games to play" - there are, but this would require an open mind and the ability to adapt. How old are you?

Wow, elitist much?

When people use the phrase "PC Master Race", they don't mean it literally.

 

[CP5670]

1440p @ 144fps is still legitimately difficult to achieve with high quality settings in some games. There are perfectly good reasons not to be running 4k.

This tends to be more of an engine limitation though, and a new video card won't necessarily fix it. Many games cannot get a constant 144fps on any hardware.

 

[DrMrLordX]

This tends to be more of an engine limitation though

Which engines offer such limitations? You can get 144 fps @ 1080p all the time now. The same framerate should be attainable in higher resolutions with better hardware.

 

[Kaluan]

Which engines offer such limitations? You can get 144 fps @ 1080p all the time now. The same framerate should be attainable in higher resolutions with better hardware.

IDK about that, there's plenty of games that just are like they described. The original Crysis (15yo game!) Is pretty notorious about this. You needed 2-3x faster hardware just so you can go from 100 to 110 fps.

There's also loads of games that are just hard capped at 60-120 fps, and this includes not just the bad console ports. But I feel this is a different subject.

 

[DeathReborn]

Which engines offer such limitations? You can get 144 fps @ 1080p all the time now. The same framerate should be attainable in higher resolutions with better hardware.

It may not be a "engine" limitiation but Borderlands 3, Far Cry 6, Watch Dogs: Legion, Elden Ring, Halo: Infinite, RDR2 & Cyberpunk 2077 can all fall short of 1080p144 on the fastest hardware. Sure, if you castrate the settings you can hit 144 but why?

 

[DrMrLordX]

It may not be a "engine" limitiation

Thanks, that was kind of my point in the first place!

 

[Frenetic Pony]

1440p @ 144fps is still legitimately difficult to achieve with high quality settings in some games. There are perfectly good reasons not to be running 4k.

It'll only be getting harder as games actually built for the new console gen show up. Looks like 60fps average is max you can get @4k out of Spiderman at max settings, and that's mostly a last gen game with RT tacked on.

Worse, as reconstruction techniques improve they'll just be abused more and more even for new gen only games. Xenoblade Chronicles 3 looks amazing for reconstructing 1080p from 540p and running on Switch, as good/better than FSR2 while running on super low end hardware as well. I wouldn't doubt we'll get the same for Series S games in time while Series X/PS5 reconstruct from 1080p to 4k or something similar.

Anyway, I do wonder what AMD will be doing now. That rumor that Nvidia will just be delaying everything but the 4090 due to the big oversupply of Ampere sounds pretty on point (I'll pat myself on the back for predicting it, pat pat). But less competition for AMD means they'll feel free to charge more, at least on the higher end. People will still want "new cards cause new" and AMD will be the only game in town.

 

[CP5670]

IDK about that, there's plenty of games that just are like they described. The original Crysis (15yo game!) Is pretty notorious about this. You needed 2-3x faster hardware just so you can go from 100 to 110 fps.

There's also loads of games that are just hard capped at 60-120 fps, and this includes not just the bad console ports. But I feel this is a different subject.

Yes many games are bottlenecked by a single CPU thread at high framerates, especially older ones. Even in the games that get 120 or 144fps 95% of the time, there are 5% scenes with lots of things going on where the framerate falls below that.

 

[DrMrLordX]

It'll only be getting harder as games actually built for the new console gen show up. Looks like 60fps average is max you can get @4k out of Spiderman at max settings, and that's mostly a last gen game with RT tacked on.

That's more of a CPU bottleneck due to it compliing shaders realtime.

 

[FangBLade]

You remind me of the folk still happy with B&W TV's, or using quad core CPU's, or playing at 1080P or 1440P in 2022. Fine if you want to - though don't kid yourself that you're not missing out on huge upgrades.

Good luck playing new games at 4k on your 1080ti. You'll probably answer this with a statement that "no good games to play" - there are, but this would require an open mind and the ability to adapt. How old are you?

User commentary is required in the GPU section. Please remember to include your own words, not just quotes or images. -AT Moderator Shmee

 

[Leeea]

It may not be a "engine" limitiation but Borderlands 3, Far Cry 6, Watch Dogs: Legion, Elden Ring, Halo: Infinite, RDR2 & Cyberpunk 2077 can all fall short of 1080p144 on the fastest hardware. Sure, if you castrate the settings you can hit 144 but why?

Um....

Elden Ring of locked at 60 fps by the game engine.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Um....

Elden Ring of locked at 60 fps by the game engine.

Unless you mod it:

 

[Leeea]

Unless you mod it:

Spoiler: very cool

Very cool.

In previous versions of the game unlocking the framerate would result in oddities. Specifically with jump distance and i-frames.

It effectively made the combat easier, but the jumps harder.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Very cool.

In previous versions of the game unlocking the framerate would result in oddities. Specifically with jump distance and i-frames.

It effectively made the combat easier, but the jumps harder.

It's possible that increasing framerates will bug out the engine. Bethesda games are/were also notorious for that. But it is possible, nevertheless! That particular video doesn't show the game actually running at anything higher than about 70 fps.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

I think we'll actually be pleasantly surprised where the top end lands in terms of price this gen.

Just throwing the following out there for NV, purely BSing on my part:

4090Ti (Mid gen refresh) - $1499
4090 (Launch Card) - $1199
4080Ti (Mid gen Refresh) - $999
4080 (Launch Card) - $799
4070 Ti (Mid gen refresh) -$699
4070 (Launch Card) - $599 - 3090-ish Performance Starts Here
4060 TI (2023) - $399
4060 (2023) - $299
4050 (2023) - $229 - 3070-ish performance starts here.

Considerations:

- Mining purchases have effectively stopped
- Mining inventory will depress prices in the used market, and current gen new market
- Consumer spending will taper off with the fed pumping the breaks on the economy
- NV needs to sell sell sell in order to hit quarterly projections.

 

[moonbogg]

I think we'll actually be pleasantly surprised where the top end lands in terms of price this gen.

Just throwing the following out there for NV, purely BSing on my part:

4090Ti (Mid gen refresh) - $1499
4090 (Launch Card) - $1199
4080Ti (Mid gen Refresh) - $999
4080 (Launch Card) - $799
4070 Ti (Mid gen refresh) -$699
4070 (Launch Card) - $599 - 3090-ish Performance Starts Here
4060 TI (2023) - $399
4060 (2023) - $299
4050 (2023) - $229 - 3070-ish performance starts here.

Considerations:

- Mining purchases have effectively stopped
- Mining inventory will depress prices in the used market, and current gen new market
- Consumer spending will taper off with the fed pumping the breaks on the economy
- NV needs to sell sell sell in order to hit quarterly projections.

Here's where they'd have to be for me to consider buying any of them.

4090Ti (Mid gen refresh) - $1000
4090 (Launch Card) - $900
4080Ti (Mid gen Refresh) - $700
4080 (Launch Card) - $600
4070 Ti (Mid gen refresh) -$500
4070 (Launch Card) - $400 - 3090-ish Performance Starts Here
4060 TI (2023) - $300
4060 (2023) - $250
4050 (2023) - $150 - 3070-ish performance starts here.

 

[Saylick]

I think we'll actually be pleasantly surprised where the top end lands in terms of price this gen.

Just throwing the following out there for NV, purely BSing on my part:

4090Ti (Mid gen refresh) - $1499
4090 (Launch Card) - $1199
4080Ti (Mid gen Refresh) - $999
4080 (Launch Card) - $799
4070 Ti (Mid gen refresh) -$699
4070 (Launch Card) - $599 - 3090-ish Performance Starts Here
4060 TI (2023) - $399
4060 (2023) - $299
4050 (2023) - $229 - 3070-ish performance starts here.

Considerations:

- Mining purchases have effectively stopped
- Mining inventory will depress prices in the used market, and current gen new market
- Consumer spending will taper off with the fed pumping the breaks on the economy
- NV needs to sell sell sell in order to hit quarterly projections.

Upon seeing your proposed prices Jensen Huang is going to say, "Those are rookie numbers. You gotta pump those numbers up in this racket". 😛

If you intentionally price Lovelace high, you leave a price pocket where Ampere stock can sit and clear inventory while it sells for a higher price, ideally as much as the market can bear. Nvidia will let AMD decide how low they want to go, never Nvidia, because they probably are betting that AMD will watch out for their own self interest and price RDNA 3 closer to Lovelace's inflated price rather than what their original target was simply because no one wants a race to the bottom.

 

[Ranulf]

Upon seeing your proposed prices Jensen Huang is going to say, "Those are rookie numbers. You gotta pump those numbers up in this racket". 😛

If you intentionally price Lovelace high, you leave a price pocket where Ampere stock can sit and clear inventory while it sells for a higher price, ideally as much as the market can bear. Nvidia will let AMD decide how low they want to go, never Nvidia, because they probably are betting that AMD will watch out for their own self interest and price RDNA 3 closer to Lovelace's inflated price rather than what their original target was simply because no one wants a race to the bottom.

Quite possible. I don't see either of them selling much product in that scenario though.

 

[Hans Gruber]

I think we'll actually be pleasantly surprised where the top end lands in terms of price this gen.

Just throwing the following out there for NV, purely BSing on my part:

4090Ti (Mid gen refresh) - $1499
4090 (Launch Card) - $1199
4080Ti (Mid gen Refresh) - $999
4080 (Launch Card) - $799
4070 Ti (Mid gen refresh) -$699
4070 (Launch Card) - $599 - 3090-ish Performance Starts Here
4060 TI (2023) - $399
4060 (2023) - $299
4050 (2023) - $229 - 3070-ish performance starts here.

Considerations:

- Mining purchases have effectively stopped
- Mining inventory will depress prices in the used market, and current gen new market
- Consumer spending will taper off with the fed pumping the breaks on the economy
- NV needs to sell sell sell in order to hit quarterly projections.

I like those numbers. Now take $100 off each of those 2 or 3 months after release. The economy is in the tank. People got burned on crypto currencies. I cannot see people jumping back into crypto only to get rolled again.

 

[jpiniero]

I think we'll actually be pleasantly surprised where the top end lands in terms of price this gen.

Just throwing the following out there for NV, purely BSing on my part:

4090Ti (Mid gen refresh) - $1499
4090 (Launch Card) - $1199
4080Ti (Mid gen Refresh) - $999
4080 (Launch Card) - $799
4070 Ti (Mid gen refresh) -$699
4070 (Launch Card) - $599 - 3090-ish Performance Starts Here
4060 TI (2023) - $399
4060 (2023) - $299
4050 (2023) - $229 - 3070-ish performance starts here.

So... lower prices than Ampere? No way in hell. Seriously.

We'll see if they do fake MSRPs, but the 4080 12 GB is probably $799 in practice and the 4080 16 GB $999. The 4090 is probably $1899. Way more expensive node, inflation, etc...

The 4080 12 GB being a tad faster than the 3090 Ti but that's it.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Sorry if this has been posted before:



Hope someone finds something interesting on that box