I was implying gun free zones give these crazies a safe place to shoot up.
Funny that they never happen in places that welcome responsible gun owners.
Posts moved from OT
AT Moderator ElFenix
Last edited by a moderator:
Your implication seems to be that these locations being gun free zones played some part in the decision making process of the shooters. Is that not what you intended to imply? If not than I have no idea what the purpose of your statement is.
I was implying gun free zones give these crazies a safe place to shoot up.
Funny that they never happen in places that welcome responsible gun owners.
Actually many have happened in non-gun free zones. I could cite you a dozen examples quite easily.
The simple fact is they happen in places of attachment, or where people related to the shooters are. Work places, schools, homes and neighbourhoods (pretty sure those aren't gun free). There has never, to my knowledge, been an incident where it was determined a location being gun free played any part other than conjecture by those discussing mass shootings.
So why not site some if they are more common?
2004 Chai Soua Vang, a 35-year-old Hmong immigrant and naturalized U.S. citizen, shot eight people while deer hunting east of Birchwood in northern Wisconsin.
2005 - Seven people were killed and four wounded when Terry Michael Ratzmann opened fire at a Living Church of God service at the Sheraton Hotel in Brookfield. Ratzmann, a 44-year-old computer technician, then committed suicide (Wisconsin) (hotel not posted).
2005 - Tacoma Mall, Dominick Maldonado injured 6, then kidnapped 4. CCW responded by yelling at Maldonado, but with no gun deployed. The CCW was subsequently shot multiple times.
2005 - Courthouse Square, Tyler, Texas, David Hernandez Arroyo Sr. killing 2 and wounding 4. Mark Wilson responded from his residence above the square and was killed after wounding Arroyo and being credited with saving lives. As this happened outside of the courthouse, Arroyo expected law enforcement and wore a fragmentation vest and ballistic vest.
2007 - Youth with a Mission Center and New Life Church shootings by Matthew J. Murray (Colorado), killing 2 and injuring 2 at YWAM and later that day killing 3 (including self) and injuring 3 at New Life. Before the suicide, was shot by former police officer and volunteer security for the church).
2008 - Dallas' LBJ Freeway Shooting Spree happened 3 days before Christmas. Jorge Lopez and William Scott Miller were killed by former Utah highway patrolman Brian Smith. Smith attempted to shoot people in several vehicles, injuring at least two others. He later shot himself and died the next day.
2008 - Skagit County Shooting Spree, Isaac Zamora killed 6 including a deputy and injured two more during a shooting spree near his home and during a high speed chase on I-5.
2009 - Lakewood, WA, four cops killed in coffee shop by Maurice Clemmons.
2009 - Michael Kenneth McLendon went on a shooting spree spanning 2 counties in southern Alabama, killing 10 other than himself. Along the way, he shot at various people and vehicles and even stores such as Wal-mart and Piggly Wiggly.
2009 - Carthage, NC, Robert Stewart killed 8 in nursing home shooting (where his wife worked) and 3 officers were injured as well.
2009 - Six people, including one student, were shot in a drive-by shooting at a community rally on the campus of Texas Southern University, Houston. (outside areas, streets, etc. not gun-free zones).
2011 - Giffords shooting, Tucson, AZ. Jared Loughner opened fire, killing 6, wounding 13, plus there was 1 additional non-gunfire injury that resulted. CCW person responded to late to be of any use with a gun.
2011 - Eduardo Sencion killed 5 (including self), wounded 7 at a Carson City, NV IHOP.
2011 - Detroit Police Station, Lamar Moore opened fire from in front of the counter, then hopped the counter, shooting 4 officers (none died).
2012 - Café Racer, Ian Stawicki killed 4 and wounded the chef before leaving and later attempting to carjack a woman, killing her.
That's just a quick list. That ignores the dozens that have happened in private homes.
You do know that courts and churches are gun free zones right?
And most malls don't allow guns?
Thanks for proving my point.
You should probably review the laws for the states in question before rejecting. You'll be surprised.
Even removing those shall we just ignore all the others?
Please show me the ones I am wrong on.
No one said to ignore the others. Nice straw man though.
Tacoma mall was not a gun free zone. The courthouse shooting happened in an outside public area, not the actual courthouse.
Proving your point? You said they never happen in places that welcome gun owners. I cited several examples to the contrary, as requested. That's not a straw man. You completely ignored the many examples and said I proved your point after being presented with many contrary incidents.
Edit: oh and on churches. http://m.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=39673
Please show me where I once said that.
Your straw man is falling. You might want to build a new one.
Funny that they never happen in places that welcome responsible gun owners.
You do know that courts and churches are gun free zones right?
And most malls don't allow guns?
Thanks for proving my point.
Which didn't you say? That they never happen in places that allow gun owners or that I somehow proved you point (that they never happen in places that allow gun owners)?
You said
To which I said I could cite several examples. You challenged me to, which I did. Your reply to that was
Now. Given that your original premise was that they never happen in places that allow gun owners, and the entire conversation after that was directly relating to mass shootings in places that allow gun owners, with examples of incidents, what point of yours was proven? Was your point, quoted above, not that they never happen in places gun owners are permitted?
I never once said they never happen in places that allow gun owners.
You either need a reading comprehension class or to just pull your head out of your ass.
Are you saying that a location can allow gun owners without allowing responsible gun owners? Otherwise, that is exactly what you said.
I did not say that. Please quote the post where I said that.
Apparently English is not some of your primary languages
I was implying gun free zones give these crazies a safe place to shoot up.
Funny that they never happen in places that welcome responsible gun owners.
He already quoted you twice on it. I'll do it again with bold, italics, and underline, just in case you missed it.
I am, of course, assuming "they" means "random spree shootings" and "places that welcome responsible gun owners" means "places that do not prohibit lawful carrying of guns".
so we just went from "that is exactly what you said" to "that is what I assume you meant".
The problem is with your reading comprehension, not my statements.
So instead of using an ambiguous term like "they", especially in the context of your first sentence ("I was implying gun free zones give these crazies a safe place to shoot up"), try to be more clear and tell me what you actually meant to say.
the human factor?
I meant to say exactly what I said.
lol, you have all the English communication skills I would expect out of a call center operator.
He already quoted you twice on it. I'll do it again with bold, italics, and underline, just in case you missed it.
I am, of course, assuming "they" means "random spree shootings" and "places that welcome responsible gun owners" means "places that do not prohibit lawful carrying of guns".
He may not be the best at saying it, but the larger point that crazy mass murderers show a strong preference for gun-free zones as target sites still stands, and remains to be refuted.
Not to mention as I posted a short while ago, all homicides by firearm have decreased to the tune of 49% in the past two decades. Unlike what the sensationalist media would have you believe.
I'm perfectly capable of wording it better. I just like messing with the libtards who try to pick apart one single word instead of focusing on the big picture.
I was implying gun free zones give these crazies a safe place to shoot up.
Funny that they never happen in places that welcome responsible gun owners.