"Rules of War"?

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: KenGr
There are really good reasons to follow the Geneva convention:

If you will mistreat captives, the opposition will fight to the death rather than surrender.

If you use civilians as shields or disguise your soldiers, the opposition will eventually be more than willing to shoot civilians.

If you fake a surrender, the next surrender will not be taken seriously.

Unfortunately these are not good reasons to the Iraqis who seem have no interest in the good of either their soldiers or civilians.

Playing devils advocate here, what about those Taliban that we kidnapped from Afghanistan and threw in Cuba. Bush refused to declare those POW's and we are still uncertain about their status. Those people live in cages outside in the sun and are blindfolded and chained like animals. Should we really be expecting better treatment?

Do you really believe they are living in cages, still blindfolded, and still chained like animals?

Have we been shown evidence to the contrary?

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: KenGr
There are really good reasons to follow the Geneva convention:

If you will mistreat captives, the opposition will fight to the death rather than surrender.

If you use civilians as shields or disguise your soldiers, the opposition will eventually be more than willing to shoot civilians.

If you fake a surrender, the next surrender will not be taken seriously.

Unfortunately these are not good reasons to the Iraqis who seem have no interest in the good of either their soldiers or civilians.

Playing devils advocate here, what about those Taliban that we kidnapped from Afghanistan and threw in Cuba. Bush refused to declare those POW's and we are still uncertain about their status. Those people live in cages outside in the sun and are blindfolded and chained like animals. Should we really be expecting better treatment?

Do you really believe they are living in cages, still blindfolded, and still chained like animals?

Yes, and here is an interesting quote from an article in the BBC published a year ago.

But the Jordanian English-language daily had a warning:

"If the US improvises and follows whatever suits it today, then its own military personnel, or even civilians captured in future conflicts might suffer the consequences."

 

[Ylen13]

maybe this reason will convience u why we should stop folowing rules of war

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Ylen13
maybe this reason will convience u why we should stop folowing rules of war

Currently we have 3000 Iraqi soldiers and others in our custody since the start of the invasion. Hmmm... what method should we use to execute them?
Maybe we could use them as human shields?
Drop them from the bomb bays of B-52 bombers?
use them as catapult ammunition

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Ylen13
maybe this reason will convience u why we should stop folowing rules of war

Currently we have 3000 Iraqi soldiers and others in our custody since the start of the invasion. Hmmm... what method should we use to execute them?
Maybe we could use them as human shields?
Drop them from the bomb bays of B-52 bombers?
use them as catapult ammunition

I am sure we already killed thousands of defenseless Iraqi soldiers and civilians using long rang missiles, who cares if we kill a couple of thousand more. (defenseless against long range missile that is)

Oh and we have all the advantage using high tech and conventional warfare with superior firepower, air and artillary support, let's forbid Iraqis to use guerrilla tactics where they might have a little advantage. Hey here is a better idea, why don't we just ask them to line up in the open dessert and let us shoot them as we like.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Ylen13
maybe this reason will convience u why we should stop folowing rules of war

Currently we have 3000 Iraqi soldiers and others in our custody since the start of the invasion. Hmmm... what method should we use to execute them?
Maybe we could use them as human shields?
Drop them from the bomb bays of B-52 bombers?
use them as catapult ammunition

I am sure we already killed thousands of defenseless Iraqi soldiers and civilians using long rang missiles, who cares if we kill a couple of thousand more. (defenseless against long range missile that is)

Oh and we have all the advantage using high tech and conventional warfare with superior firepower, air and artillary support, let's forbid Iraqis to use guerrilla tactics where they might have a little advantage. Hey here is a better idea, why don't we just ask them to line up in the open dessert and let us shoot them as we like.

So by your reasoning does this mean that we can stat bombing the hospitals they use to hide their troops in?

At a news briefing at Central Command Headquarters in Qatar, Brig. Gen. Vincent Brooks today revealed that 3,000 chemical suits were found in an abandoned hospital being used by Iraqi paramilitary groups near the southern Iraqi city of Nasiriya.

 

[UnixFreak]

I am so torn on this, it isn't funny. I mean, its not so bad to say "all is fair in love and war" because in a way, its true. War has been war for years, and their has never been a set of rules. People did what they had to do to win.

I think its really sad that the republican guard has to fight so dirty, and we try and keep our head above water with the Geneva convention. We follow the rules, and we treat their POWs like humans, and they execute ours. My first reaction is we should start capping POWs on live camera until they get the hint, but then again, we are gaining world support because of their "dirty" and "illegal" tactics, so I guess we should try to stay in the right if we can.

The bigger problem is the loss of life as a result. Maybe we just need to step it up, and really put the hammer down on them, before we lose more of our troops.

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: rchiu

I am sure we already killed thousands of defenseless Iraqi soldiers and civilians using long rang missiles, who cares if we kill a couple of thousand more. (defenseless against long range missile that is)

Oh and we have all the advantage using high tech and conventional warfare with superior firepower, air and artillary support, let's forbid Iraqis to use guerrilla tactics where they might have a little advantage. Hey here is a better idea, why don't we just ask them to line up in the open dessert and let us shoot them as we like.

Your reasoning ability seems a bit weak. We are the stronger force and obviously we are going to come out victorious. The Iraqis cannot raise the level of the fighting to a point that we cannot beat them even worse.

They treat our POW's with respect, fine, we'll do the same. They have a lot more of them to lose than we do.

You seem like you feel sorry for an enemy that wants to kill you.

Ask yourself this question- If the Iraqis were the one with the technology advantage, would they hesitate to use it against us? Of course not. We are eliminating the threat to us.

If you have lost your survival instincts and somehow feel sorry for those who are trying to kill you, fine, it's your life. But don't expect those who can think more clearly to act the same way.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: Marshallj

Originally posted by: rchiu

I am sure we already killed thousands of defenseless Iraqi soldiers and civilians using long rang missiles, who cares if we kill a couple of thousand more. (defenseless against long range missile that is)

Oh and we have all the advantage using high tech and conventional warfare with superior firepower, air and artillary support, let's forbid Iraqis to use guerrilla tactics where they might have a little advantage. Hey here is a better idea, why don't we just ask them to line up in the open dessert and let us shoot them as we like.

Your reasoning ability seems a bit weak. We are the stronger force and obviously we are going to come out victorious. The Iraqis cannot raise the level of the fighting to a point that we cannot beat them even worse.

They treat our POW's with respect, fine, we'll do the same. They have a lot more of them to lose than we do.

You seem like you feel sorry for an enemy that wants to kill you.

Ask yourself this question- If the Iraqis were the one with the technology advantage, would they hesitate to use it against us? Of course not. We are eliminating the threat to us.

If you have lost your survival instincts and somehow feel sorry for those who are trying to kill you, fine, it's your life. But don't expect those who can think more clearly to act the same way.

I guess we are the only one with survival instinct? I just pointed out other people have survival instinct too. I didn't say it is not fair for US to use missile and technology, I just say it is dumb to say only we can use what is advantageous to us, and when someone else use what is advantageous to them, we cry foul. War is dirty and people use whatever means to win, that is just the reality. That's why you better think twice when you want to start a war.

 

[Fencer128]

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: sandorski
Rules of war are good. Though I can understand Iraq's position in not following them, that won't matter once the war is over(I assume the Coalition will win ). One party not following the rules doesn't excuse the other party(ies) from following the Rules though.

actually, for some things, like chemical weapons, you are allowed to return fire in kind

I did not realise that. Where do you get your iinformation.

Cheers,

Andy

 

[snooker]

I see some high officers of the Iraqi military visiting the Hague in future.....

 

[AdmiralTiger]

I've noticed so much of the "rules of war" (i.e. the Geneva Convention) - Iraq not adhering to the Geneva, doing such atrocities as putting their own paramilitary units in a hospital for a base operation, storing chemical suits, sending women and children in the streets, shooting our own POWs after they're being captured, hanging a woman just for waving at coalition troops, Iraq continuing to tell lies that they're about to kick out the coalition and that they'll win the war eventually. We're winning the war and we're getting plenty of world support thanks to the embedded media coverage that's been going on (you ought to thank the military for letting the reporters into several military squadrons) - with that, we can see what's really going on down there - and for once and all, we can see who the Iraqi Regime really are, a regime with no regards for human lives and they don't give a damn about any "rules of war" because they think that it was made in Geneva, so it doesn't apply to their own country.

I can't say I don't blame them for doing this, but I find it very sick and disgusting to see this kind of behavior raging on in Iraq. I hope the war will end within the end of next month so that way we won't have to see those poor Iraqis getting hurt by their own military or their leaders. I'm just typing this out as I think, so if you see something that I've missed or whatever, please feel free to add in to this "anger" that i'm posting up here.

(it does make me feel better posting this... thanks for creating a folder solely for this situation, AT mods)

 

[AdmiralTiger]

Originally posted by: snooker
I see some high officers of the Iraqi military visiting the Hague in future.....

IF they live to tell the tale... I have a feeling they'd commit suicide before that happens... same thing with Hitler and his Nazi followers. (most of them anyway)

 

[AdmiralTiger]

^ for the afternoon crowds

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: snooker
I see some high officers of the Iraqi military visiting the Hague in future.....

Good.

 

[Bitek]

I guess we are the only one with survival instinct? I just pointed out other people have survival instinct too. I didn't say it is not fair for US to use missile and technology, I just say it is dumb to say only we can use what is advantageous to us, and when someone else use what is advantageous to them, we cry foul. War is dirty and people use whatever means to win, that is just the reality. That's why you better think twice when you want to start a war.

Here's a man taking sense. On one hand the rules of war are important to try to avoid unnessesary suffering, conversely, they are a rediculous idea to try to turn war, the ultimate betrayal of decancy and humanity, into a "gentleman's sport."

Let me try a little Devil's advocate here...

How can we complain about Iraq violating "Rules of War" when we illegally invaded a nation who has not attacked us, in opposition to UN rules and decision, international expectations of behavior, and the vast majority of world opinion?! What about the civilians we have killed. Like the 5 in the bus to Jordan? The Iraqi's are wrong for murdering soldiers who invaded their country, yet we are free from culpability in their deaths because our actions were a "mistake" (to quote the general, yeah oops.. :disgust: )????

Deny responsibility if you wish, but all the blood is on our hands. If we can't stomach that thought, then we shouldn't have started the war. We can't be surprized the Iraqi's are doing this, given their situation and history. They are horrible for doing so, but we've forced them into it. We cannot expect them to fight our war and just get slaughtered.

I'm so pissed off at all the "patriotic" cheerleading. "Remember 9/11," "Iraq would do it to us," "if you don't like it you can move to Iraq." Bullsh!t. My America does not behave like this. We're acting like a bunch of children cowering in the corner, so frightened were lashing out at every "bogeyman" we hear in the dark. I have family in the service, and I support them and want them to come home safe, but I am angry they have been so foolishly and recklessly put into harm's way, with so little benefit hoped to be returned.

If you like it, YOU move to Iraq, Afganistan, NK or whatever depraved country that likes to kill innocent people. Leave, my country is better than this. My country stands for decency, humanity, courage and integrity. Your cowardice is a far greater threat to this country than the likes of some 2-bit dictator like Saddam. This war only shames us all, and incurring the wrath and hatred of the rest of the world will not make us safe, only less so. Saddam could not have been left to his own devices, and war *may* have been nessesary, but not like this. This war is a result of failure, and we will all pay the price of it.

forgive my tangent, it needed to be said.

 

[seawolf21]

"Rules of war" are nothing but pieces of paper. You can't really expect anyone to follow them especially if they are being exterminated. During Desert Storm, there were incentives for Saddam to follow these rules, mainly being not providing an excuse for the coalition to roll up into Baghdad. Now that the stated goal of Iraqi Freedom is to take him out, there is no reason why he should follow any rule whatsoever. As the saying goes...all is fair in love and war.