Rumor: AMD to Undercut Ultrabooks up to $200 (Digitimes)

[ed29a]

You don't have a DVD drive

And that's a problem ... because? Go to an enthusiast laptop forum and you'll notice that quite a lot of people ditch their optical drives for an extra hard drive/SSD.

, you are using an ULV CPU,

The vast majority of the computer user need nothing more than a modest dual core processor from about 4 years ago.

and you have less space to dissipate heat.

You assume they are hot.

I really doubt anyone would pick one up and think that it can replace a workstation/folding machine/ect.

My nurse doesn't need a workstation. Neither does a secretary. Neither do most students. Just because you have a specific need for a powerhouse machine, it doesn't mean the entire planet has the same need. In fact, you are part of a tiny minuscule minority.

What do you think most people do with Ultrabooks?

I don't know ... Work? Leisure? Studies?

 

[sawtx]

And that's a problem ... because? Go to an enthusiast laptop forum and you'll notice that quite a lot of people ditch their optical drives for an extra hard drive/SSD.

And how many of them are doing heavy lifting on an Ultrabook? Or use an Ultrabook as their main computer?

The vast majority of the computer user need nothing more than a modest dual core processor from about 4 years ago.

Which helps my point that CPU boost between Ivy and Trinity is not that important.

You assume they are hot.

If you are using it in a manner that the CPU difference is noticeable then you are stressing it and they can get hot with more normal useage.

My nurse doesn't need a workstation. Neither does a secretary. Neither do most students. Just because you have a specific need for a powerhouse machine, it doesn't mean the entire planet has the same need. In fact, you are part of a tiny minuscule minority.

Again I was saying that you aren't going to buy an Ultrabook and put real heavy lifting loads on it.

I don't know ... Work? Leisure? Studies?

And how much of that is really stressing on a modern CPU?


Basically my point is that what you would buy and use an Ultrabook for really isn't going to demand a very powerful CPU. You aren't going to buy one as a folding machine, you aren't going to buy one to replace an FEM machine, ect. The most demanding stuff someone would probably use an Ultrabook for is streaming 1080p Flash videos, light gaming, or light work related stuff. Nothing that should show significant differences between an Ivy Bridge Ultrabook or Trinity Ultrabook on the CPU side of things.

 

[ed29a]

Not sure if I was clear enough ...

(1) Folding machine + other CPU intensive crap = 1% of the population. I am pretty sure my mom, sister, brother in law, daughter, niece (and 99% of the population) don't know and don't care what folding is.
(2) Word, Facebook, Browsing, Watching pr0n, etc = 99% of the population.

(1) Needs a serious workstation.
(2) Can be done on a really crappy ultrabook.

99% of the population could buy an ultrabook and that would be more than enough for their needs.

 

[Phynaz]

What do you think most people do with Ultrabooks?

Their jobs.

 

[sawtx]

Not sure if I was clear enough ...

(1) Folding machine + other CPU intensive crap = 1% of the population. I am pretty sure my mom, sister, brother in law, daughter, niece (and 99% of the population) don't know and don't care what folding is.
(2) Word, Facebook, Browsing, Watching pr0n, etc = 99% of the population.

(1) Needs a serious workstation.
(2) Can be done on a really crappy ultrabook.

Which was the point I was trying to make. At this point very few people need high end CPUs and the ones who do won't be getting an Ultrabook as their main computer so big gains on the CPU for these machines aren't that big of a deal.

Their jobs.

And how many of those people have to use software that stresses a CPU and wouldn't just get a thin and light instead if they needed the extra oomph?

 

[ed29a]

Which was the point I was trying to make. At this point very few people need high end CPUs and the ones who do won't be getting an Ultrabook as their main computer so big gains on the CPU for these machines aren't that big of a deal.

And how many of those people have to use software that stresses a CPU and wouldn't just get a thin and light instead if they needed the extra oomph?

Congratulations in contradicting yourself ... in the same post.

 

[sawtx]

Congratulations in contradicting yourself ... in the same post.

?
I said very few people need a high end CPU, not that there aren't people that do. Or was it that people who do need extra CPU power wouldn't use an Ultrabook as a primary and insinuating that people would just get a thin and light instead if they wanted something portable.

 

[Phynaz]

And how many of those people have to use software that stresses a CPU and wouldn't just get a thin and light instead if they needed the extra oomph?

Pick a number... 25%? 50%? 75%?

I think you are vastly underestimating the market for these.

 

[MaxPayne63]

Pick a number... 25%? 50%? 75%?

I think you are vastly underestimating the market for these.

He's also vastly overestimating the number of people who spend their time looking at CPU benches and figuring out just how much oomph they need out of a processor.

 

[Phynaz]

He's also vastly overestimating the number of people who spend their time looking at CPU benches and figuring out just how much oomph they need out of a processor.

Especially people at work.

At my employer you get three choices: A desktop, a 12" laptop or a 14" laptop. Director and above get an SSD in their laptop. You don't get to pick brands or models, there's only one.

These are people that if given the option will buy Ultrabooks.

 

[sawtx]

He's also vastly overestimating the number of people who spend their time looking at CPU benches and figuring out just how much oomph they need out of a processor.

Again, that is exactly the opposite of what I am talking about. I originally replied to a guy who was using benches to say Ivy was much better then Trinity, and I said that for an Ultrabook it wasn't a big deal because people aren't buying an Ultrabook for it's performance.

Especially people at work.

At my employer you get three choices: A desktop, a 12" laptop or a 14" laptop. Director and above get an SSD in their laptop. You don't get to pick brands or models, there's only one.

These are people that if given the option will buy Ultrabooks.

You do realize I am not arguing against Ultrabooks, I am arguing that in an Ultrabook the difference in CPU performance between Ivy Bridge and Trininty isn't going to be that important because you aren't using it for something that is taxing. If your job gives you a choice of a laptop then most of what you do is probably not CPU bound.

 

[Phynaz]

I am arguing that in an Ultrabook the difference in CPU performance between Ivy Bridge and Trininty isn't going to be that important because you aren't using it for something that is taxing.

You sure seem to know a lot about how other people use their computers.

What's you user base?

 

[grkM3]

I will be getting an ultrabook and also docking it for the main computer.

The acer with no drives is exaclty what I want,ultra thin and light with a quad ivy that has the power when you need it(docked) and using the thunderbolt to hook it up to an external video card for gaming when needed.

They are saying 9 hours with an ivy and that along with under 3lbs is what I want.Docking it with a usb drive and using a thunderbolt gpu setup is just a bonus to use as a home desktop.

the major thing AMD is lacking is thunderbolt and the 200 dollar savings is not worth it to me

 

[sawtx]

You sure seem to know a lot about how other people use their computers.

What's you user base?

I'll tell you if you can come up with the logic behind how you think 75% of people stress their CPU's and yet would get Ultrabooks instead of something more capable.

 

[IntelUser2000]

The acer with no drives is exaclty what I want,ultra thin and light with a quad ivy that has the power when you need it(docked) and using the thunderbolt to hook it up to an external video card for gaming when needed.

The really thin Acer, the S5 uses the 17W Ivy Bridge chip, which is a dual core. It'll probably be fast as the fastest dual core Sandy Bridge chips, but you won't be getting a quad core there.

 

[grkM3]

The really thin Acer, the S5 uses the 17W Ivy Bridge chip, which is a dual core. It'll probably be fast as the fastest dual core Sandy Bridge chips, but you won't be getting a quad core there.

Im sure they have an i7 coming

waiting for this with an ivy in it

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Acer+-+Aspire+S3+Ultrabook+Laptop+/+Intel%26%23174%3B+Core%26%23153%3B+i7+Processor+/+13.3%26%2334%3B+Display+/+4GB+Memory+-+Silver/4171494.p?id=1218459207651&skuId=4171494&st=Acer_Ultrabooks&cp=1&lp=2

 

[Phynaz]

I'll tell you if you can come up with the logic behind how you think 75% of people stress their CPU's and yet would get Ultrabooks instead of something more capable.

Comprehension failure on your part - I never said 75%.

So wait, first you say people don't need power so an Ultrabook is overkill. Then you say if they need power an Ultrabook isn't capable. Make up your mind.

Simple fact - given a choice, people will select the Ultrabook. Lighter, better looking, and fully capable of replacing a desktop for most business users.

How about we check back in the fall and see who's right?

BTW, my user base is a little over 33K. We're down a few thousand due to buyouts.

 

[sawtx]

Comprehension failure on your part - I never said 75%.

So wait, first you say people don't need power so an Ultrabook is overkill. Then you say if they need power an Ultrabook isn't capable. Make up your mind.

Simple fact - given a choice, people will select the Ultrabook. Lighter, better looking, and fully capable of replacing a desktop for most business users.

How about we check back in the fall and see who's right?

BTW, my user base is a little over 33K. We're down a few thousand due to buyouts.

No, you said people stress their CPUs and would get an Ultrabook. When asked how many specifically:

Pick a number... 25%? 50%? 75%?

I think you are vastly underestimating the market for these.

75% of people is insane and 50% is probably more than those who use computers at work. To me letting a workforce that needs CPU power get Ultrabooks is irresponsible.

Again I think you are completely misunderstanding my position: If you are getting an Ultrabook you aren't getting it for heavy lifting but to gain portability, ie The CPU power difference between Trinity and Ivy Bridge isn't going to be a driving force but things like weight, build quality, battery life, ect.

As far as me I do IT/Finite Element Modeling/stress work for a small engineering company and do "house calls" for the owner and my boss, a small percent of my business, families of coworkers, and my family would notice the difference between Trinity and Ivy and those that would would get gladly trade a little weight and size for non-ULV chips (plus I would force the issue for them if possible).

 

[IntelUser2000]

Im sure they have an i7 coming

waiting for this with an ivy in it

17W parts are i7's too.

 

[grkM3]

17W parts are i7's too.

are you saying there is no quad core I7 coming out?

you can buy the s3 right now with a quad and hyper threading for 8 threads right now at best buy.It says 8 way processing so I would hope a true ivy quad comes out in an ultrabook

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Acer+-+Aspire+S3+Ultrabook+Laptop+/+Intel&%23174%3B+Core&%23153%3B+i7+Processor+/+13.3%22+Display+-+Silver/4171494.p?id=1218459207651&skuId=4171494&cmp=RMX&ref=06&loc=01&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=4171494

 

[IntelUser2000]

are you saying there is no quad core I7 coming out?

No, but read on.

• 2nd Gen Intel® Core™ i7-2637M processor
  Features a 4MB L3 cache and 1.7GHz processor speed with Turbo Boost up to 2.8GHz.
• Intel® Core™ i7 processor
  Features 8-way processing for ultimate smart performance. Intel® Turbo Boost Technology delivers extra performance when you need it and increased energy efficiency when you don't.

Doesn't the two statements contradict each other? 2637M is a 17W, dual core CPU. The second one is a typo. Ultrabooks are supposed to be extra thin and light, which limits what CPU they can fit in. Quad cores are 45W and 55W now, and with IVB, certain OEM variants will be 35W. But no 17W.


And you just need to go to Acer's site to see the S3 is a 17W dual core.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Come on, AMD. Do this right, take some market share, and make some profit.

I don't want Trinity ultrathins to simply serve the purpose of Intel lowering prices. I want these systems to sell well and perform well.

Their GPU performance destroys Intel and CPU performance should very good for the price point.

Well, lets see how trinity really pans out. I like Llano, but honestly, CPU wise, I am apprehensive about Trinity. They have to make some major improvements in performance per watt, especially for small formfactors.

And yes, AMD has much superior graphics, but I am not sure how that relates to an ultrabook. I dont know how much graphics intensive work you can do without overheating on such a thin formfactor.

If Intel and the manufacturers keep their laptops in the 1000+ range then I think it gives AMD a good place to undercut them. But if Intel ultrabooks start appearing in the 700.00 range, I dont know how much room it leaves AMD to compete without sacrificing too much quality.