*RUMOR* New Xbox will be '5 times more powerful' than PS4 Neo

[poofyhairguy]

Correct, but this launches in the future, not now. Also, it seems to be bucking console trends and may be making an expensive/risky power play against Sony. Basically, capitalize on it being the first upgradable generation (well, original XBOX was X86 also) by letting Sony make the first move and then countering it with a move Sony can't reasonably match within the life of this platform.

Sony's issue is it has to move first- spreading the UHD platform for media content is just as important to them as gaming.

Microsoft can afford to wait another year and let it be a full generation refresh. Let Sony sell the PS4k vs the Xbox 2.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Sony's issue is it has to move first- spreading the UHD platform for media content is just as important to them as gaming.



Microsoft can afford to wait another year and let it be a full generation refresh. Let Sony sell the PS4k vs the Xbox 2.

Plus Sony has the VR thing they are making a push for this year. They have a reputation of not supporting their peripherals very well but if it shows promise in the market they will need the extra power available for better experiences. Microsoft that I am aware of doesn't have any definite VR plans.

 

[sze5003]

you can do it now

you cant and wont be able to do it for 400/500$ which is what consoles target

Yea I wonder what they plan on pricing this thing. Supposedly its suppose to be out fall 2016 so they must have some figures somewhere.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[darkswordsman17]

Correct, but this launches in the future, not now. Also, it seems to be bucking console trends and may be making an expensive/risky power play against Sony. Basically, capitalize on it being the first upgradable generation (well, original XBOX was X86 also) by letting Sony make the first move and then countering it with a move Sony can't reasonably match within the life of this platform.

Sony's issue is it has to move first- spreading the UHD platform for media content is just as important to them as gaming.

Microsoft can afford to wait another year and let it be a full generation refresh. Let Sony sell the PS4k vs the Xbox 2.

Yea I wonder what they plan on pricing this thing. Supposedly its suppose to be out fall 2016 so they must have some figures somewhere.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

If it comes out this fall then it is likely going to closely ape the PS4 update. There's almost no other option even since there's been no rumors about anything else and AMD has openly said they have 3 new console design contracts. And there's not really anything they can get from AMD that will outstrip what Sony is getting (as Zen won't be ready for that and I don't see them trying to stuff one of the construction core CPUs in a console, let alone along with what would be a Fury Nano at least). The cost of that alone would be very high and get quickly eclipsed.

Or, maybe it is them marketing a gaming PC as Xbox and signaling a move to Xbox being a platform. Doubtful though. But I think Microsoft would be smart to do something like that. Have tiers and then try to lock in specs giving a large install base of similar components.

Plus, I'm doubtful of this upgrade setup. When that came out Microsoft got backlash and ridicule (and comparisons to Sega and crap like the 32X) similar to when they announced the One, and they have openly said they get the message that isn't something people want.

I still think it makes more sense that we'll see them move to shorter cycles with more gradual improvements (that get sold as a premium experience at first before it becomes the target spec) and we'll get new consoles every 2-4 years. They finally learned it makes sense to establish a consistent software library, so they won't be making drastic changes that require overhauling the codebase as much (like using completely different CPU architectures). We'll still end up with similar overall lifespan (so if you're an early adopter you can play PS4 games for probably 6 years before major games require a more modern feature set; and with a lot of indie games you might get even more life out of it).

CPUs especially have started to level off, so they can stuff a newer GPU every 3 years or so and offer some combination of higher resolution, eye candy, and framerate.

What will be really interesting to see is how developers handle that. Hopefully companies like Activision and Ubisoft don't treat it as a way of fixing their broken games by hoping brute force will make them playable.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Correct, but this launches in the future, not now. Also, it seems to be bucking console trends and may be making an expensive/risky power play against Sony. Basically, capitalize on it being the first upgradable generation (well, original XBOX was X86 also) by letting Sony make the first move and then countering it with a move Sony can't reasonably match within the life of this platform.

Except we already know the "future" in terms of graphics card performance, and there isn't a 10 Tflop card coming out for at least another 3-4 years. For instance, the GP100 (i.e. big dog Nvidia card, which won't be out as a consumer card until next year, but exists as a HPC GPGPU card now) only does just over 5Tflops. You would need 2 of them to get your 10Tflop that they are citing in that article. The consumer version of those cards are expected to be in the $800-1000 range each now (unless AMD has a product that actually competes, which no one but the AMD/ATI fanboys believe anymore).

Now if they are stretching the term and saying the Tflop value is combined CPUs+GPUs, you are still looking at needing dual Xeon E5-2699v4 CPUs will get you an additional 1.8-1.9 Tflops at the cost of about $8,000... Not that a console would be able to deal with the 300 watts of heat those would produce.

 

[Ichinisan]

Plus Sony has the VR thing they are making a push for this year. They have a reputation of not supporting their peripherals very well but if it shows promise in the market they will need the extra power available for better experiences. Microsoft that I am aware of doesn't have any definite VR plans.

Hello... Hololens?

 

[KentState]

Hello... Hololens?

Augmented reality, close but not the same where you have to render 100% of the environment.

 

[CZroe]

Augmented reality, close but not the same where you have to render 100% of the environment.

AR is the stand-out feature, but that trick can be harder/more intensive. It stands to reason that it could render a complete environment just the same. Who knows: If other VR platforms succeed Hololens may just have to settle for ports of Oculus or Sony's non-AR VR stuff.

 

[Lil Frier]

Also, remember that HoloLens is currently $3,000 and said to be multiple years away from a wide release.

 

[Ancalagon44]

Except we already know the "future" in terms of graphics card performance, and there isn't a 10 Tflop card coming out for at least another 3-4 years. For instance, the GP100 (i.e. big dog Nvidia card, which won't be out as a consumer card until next year, but exists as a HPC GPGPU card now) only does just over 5Tflops. You would need 2 of them to get your 10Tflop that they are citing in that article. The consumer version of those cards are expected to be in the $800-1000 range each now (unless AMD has a product that actually competes, which no one but the AMD/ATI fanboys believe anymore).

Now if they are stretching the term and saying the Tflop value is combined CPUs+GPUs, you are still looking at needing dual Xeon E5-2699v4 CPUs will get you an additional 1.8-1.9 Tflops at the cost of about $8,000... Not that a console would be able to deal with the 300 watts of heat those would produce.

You're referring to double precision floating point performance. For single precision floating point performance, the GP100 is already at 10.6 TFlops.

If NVidia or AMD made a GPU with less double precision hardware, they might be able to make a GPU that can do 10 TFlops single precision without being as big or expensive as a GP100.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Letters to the EU energy board (April 2015) have the following released last month:

UHD (Blu-ray my speculation) Game Consoles shipped in 2013 but won't be firmware updated to support it till 2016. There is a BDA Licence for UHD Blu-ray game consoles and Sony has a License for a UHD Movie player/Game Console/test player and a License for a UHD Blu-ray PC application. There is a second paper naming both the XB1 and PS4 as UHD game consoles. The PS3 and Xbox 360 are labeled as HD.

The definition in these papers for UHD is that they can display 4K media. The PS3 can display 4K media so what is the difference; the PS4 can display 4K media that requires DRM while the Xbox 360 and PS3 can't.

1) UHD Capable released in 2013 (XB1 and PS4) will be firmware updated in 2016. UHD Media is delivered as IP using HTML5 and ATSC 3.0 (UHD Antenna TV) includes DRM which is also required for Vidipath and UHD blu-ray digital bridge using the same standards. Microsoft is pushing for Playready to support it all and looking at the Playready master list it appears a done deal.
2) Third tier starts in 2017 with 20 watt less Navigation mode (This is likely the PS4 NEO and a XB1 revision)
3) Tier 4 starts in 2019 mentioned but no information volunteered. (XB1 and PS4 revision or a PS5 XB2?)

Polaris 10 can use GDDR5 late 2016 130 Watt TDP less than $299 retail. The PS4 can use this but the XB1 with ARM in the APU can't. XB1 will have to wait till late 2017 for Vega with HBM2 (looks like 50% more performance at 130 Watt TDP so 6 TF instead of the PS4 Neo 4.x). Tier 4 would likely be both using Navi in 2019 and the differences between the consoles disappear.

The above is part of the AMD 25X APU improvement in energy efficiency by 2020 = decreasing TDP for the same TF which translates into the ability to have larger more powerful GPUs and CPUs at the same TDP. Part of this energy efficiency increase is due to code changes so a PS4 Launch game unmodified will still draw as much power minus hardware efficiencies.

PS4 = 1.8, 4, 10 TF @ 130 watts TDP (guess) Late 2016 or early 2017
XB1 = 1.3, 6, 10 TF @ 130 watts TDP (wild guess) Late 2017.....

Navi is known good die on interposer with HBM. Multiple CPU and GPU Known good die packages (pre tested) assembled on Interposer to decrease costs. Since TDP is the limiting factor in a Living room Game console the Sony and Microsoft 2019 game consoles using Navi will be very similar if not identical.

In my opinion Microsoft for sure and likely Sony will not announce a new console at E3. For Sony it might kill sales of 2015 versions of the PS4 and it's way too early for Microsoft to announce a new version coming late 2017. I also believe Launch versions will not be manufactured after the new consoles are selling provided the costs are similar which I think rumors have supported for the PS4 NEO.

 

[alcoholbob]

lol what are they gonna run on this thing, 1060ti SLI? There's no way without charging at least $700 for the machine, plus the the system would easily break 300W if that was the case.

 

[jeff_rigby]

lol what are they gonna run on this thing, 1060ti SLI? There's no way without charging at least $700 for the machine, plus the the system would easily break 300W if that was the case.

For the PS4:

"Polaris 10 can use GDDR5 late 2016 130 Watt TDP less than $299 retail." = about 4TF and the XB1 has to use Vega because they still have ARM IP in the APU. Vega is about 1.5X more efficient than Polaris = 6TF at 130 TDP.

PS4.5 should come early 2017 and XB1 II late 2017 unless somehow Microsoft gets AMD to release it early.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

So, I have a dilemma and I was hoping you guys could help me. There is a bundle on Amazon which includes the 1 TB Xbox One, 5 games, an extra controller, and a $50 Amazon card for $369. I'm seriously considering buying this in order to play sports games with my brothers, but I'm a bit worried that MS could announce something really earth shattering in a few weeks and I would've wasted my money. Thoughts? I currently have a PS4 (also have XB360, PS3, and Wii) but I can't seem to find anything definitive about what MS might be announcing. I'm guessing that it will just have more powerful hardware for VR (and maybe 4K) but would still be compatible with existing XB1 games, but I am obviously not sure.

 

[sze5003]

So, I have a dilemma and I was hoping you guys could help me. There is a bundle on Amazon which includes the 1 TB Xbox One, 5 games, an extra controller, and a $50 Amazon card for $369. I'm seriously considering buying this in order to play sports games with my brothers, but I'm a bit worried that MS could announce something really earth shattering in a few weeks and I would've wasted my money. Thoughts? I currently have a PS4 (also have XB360, PS3, and Wii) but I can't seem to find anything definitive about what MS might be announcing. I'm guessing that it will just have more powerful hardware for VR (and maybe 4K) but would still be compatible with existing XB1 games, but I am obviously not sure.

If they announce anything it won't be out until 2017 likely late in the year. Same with Sony.

 

[Lil Frier]

Yeah, but who wants to make a $400 investment in a console for a year? I'd maybe order it, leave it sealed, then see what happens at E3 in 2 weeks. Then we'll have an idea of the landscape for console gaming.

 

[sze5003]

That's true although these toys are usually not an investment anymore. If I didn't have either system at this point I would wait. Then based on announcements you would wait some more but at least you would get the most up to date model.

 

[balloonshark]

So, I have a dilemma and I was hoping you guys could help me. There is a bundle on Amazon which includes the 1 TB Xbox One, 5 games, an extra controller, and a $50 Amazon card for $369. I'm seriously considering buying this in order to play sports games with my brothers, but I'm a bit worried that MS could announce something really earth shattering in a few weeks and I would've wasted my money. Thoughts? I currently have a PS4 (also have XB360, PS3, and Wii) but I can't seem to find anything definitive about what MS might be announcing. I'm guessing that it will just have more powerful hardware for VR (and maybe 4K) but would still be compatible with existing XB1 games, but I am obviously not sure.

That's a nice deal if you like the included games and need the extra controller. If you think you can sell it later used and get all or some of your money back or give it to one of your brothers then I would go for it.

You can also search slickdeals.net for xbox console to see past deals to compare.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Yeah, but who wants to make a $400 investment in a console for a year? I'd maybe order it, leave it sealed, then see what happens at E3 in 2 weeks. Then we'll have an idea of the landscape for console gaming.

That's a great idea. Since it is through Amazon, I should be able to return it easily if needed.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Well, with no exclusive games for the new console revision and the fact that you get 5 games with it. I'd buy it and play the hell out of it and forget about anything else. At worst in 2 years you sell it and buy the revision. All rumors say there will be no new games that don't play on the old one. I've had reservations about that in terms of what type of performance sacrifice you are looking at etc, but that's too good of a deal.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Well, with no exclusive games for the new console revision and the fact that you get 5 games with it. I'd buy it and play the hell out of it and forget about anything else. At worst in 2 years you sell it and buy the revision. All rumors say there will be no new games that don't play on the old one. I've had reservations about that in terms of what type of performance sacrifice you are looking at etc, but that's too good of a deal.

Yeah, I am thinking I am going to order the bundle and leave it sealed until E3 so that I can return it if I see something I must have. I'm betting that the refreshes are largely centered around GPU and CPU increases for VR and 4K gaming, but that games will operate on both the new and old XB1s. I don't care about VR and since I game on a 1080P plasma in my mancave, I doubt I will care about 4K gaming for a couple more years. I'm just trying to secure commitments from my brothers that we'll have some sports leagues before I buy.

 

[purbeast0]

there is not a chance in hell there will be 4k gaming on either the ps4.5 or the xbox1.5. the technology simply is no there.

also worrying about the future is pointless. if you do that you will never purchase anything since there is always something better around the corner. if you want to play the games now, buy it. if not, don't buy it.

and consoles are not "investments", they are toys that depreciate as soon as you open it.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

there is not a chance in hell there will be 4k gaming on either the ps4.5 or the xbox1.5. the technology simply is no there.

The tech is available, just not at the price points they need. I'm having a hard time believing that they're going to release massively beefed-up systems because they'd have to take losses on them in order to put the power in them they need.

also worrying about the future is pointless. if you do that you will never purchase anything since there is always something better around the corner. if you want to play the games now, buy it. if not, don't buy it.

and consoles are not "investments", they are toys that depreciate as soon as you open it.

That's my view as well, but if something drastically different is announced and available within 3 or 4 months, I think it is wiser to wait. However, I can't believe that the upgrades will be significant enough to warrant waiting - I just wanted you guys to confirm.

At any rate, I did buy the bundle. Sigh, I swore I'd never buy another Xbox....

 

[sze5003]

The tech is available, just not at the price points they need. I'm having a hard time believing that they're going to release massively beefed-up systems because they'd have to take losses on them in order to put the power in them they need.



That's my view as well, but if something drastically different is announced and available within 3 or 4 months, I think it is wiser to wait. However, I can't believe that the upgrades will be significant enough to warrant waiting - I just wanted you guys to confirm.

I don't expect these updates to have better graphics for someone with a 1080p TV. Maybe just better performance. The games will work on both systems and may only look better on a 4k TV because of the scaling. If anything they may look a bit better but not drastic.

 

[purbeast0]

The tech is available, just not at the price points they need. I'm having a hard time believing that they're going to release massively beefed-up systems because they'd have to take losses on them in order to put the power in them they need.



That's my view as well, but if something drastically different is announced and available within 3 or 4 months, I think it is wiser to wait. However, I can't believe that the upgrades will be significant enough to warrant waiting - I just wanted you guys to confirm.

At any rate, I did buy the bundle. Sigh, I swore I'd never buy another Xbox....

yeah i meant the tech is not available at their price point and size of consoles.