[Rumor/Speculation] GTX Titan X 12GB vs R9 390X 4GB vs Unknown GM200 GPU

[Silverforce11]

Keep in mind that often purchasers of high-end GPUs buy 2-3 of them. The AIO will be a pain for CF configurations, as 2-3 will easily take-up case-fan slots that could be used otherwise. I am not 'against' AIO coolers, but I do think they are a niche offering. AMD should offer that along with a traditional slot cooler IMHO.

Have you considered that each 120mm rad you use for exhaust serves two purposes, ie. killing 2 birds, 1 stone.

Normally with open air cards (esp CF/SLI) you need a lot of CFM & pressure so you use those slots for extra fans.

With AIO on the GPUs, suddenly there's so little heat dumped in your case, combined with the rads as exhaust you don't actually need extra fans. It's win-win, if you have 2 x 120mm rad slots in your case.

 

[boxleitnerb]

Good joke 10/10. Almost everyone here is like that for one of the companies. In fact, if you're denying it it most likely means that you're one of them...

Even so, it's better for everyone if AMD takes the crown, because competition can only be good for us as consumers.

I buy by performance and features, not by politics, affinity or anything else. I understand perf/$ buyers and I see a lot of them here. And I see haters and gloaters in both camps which is what I find despicable.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Initial impressions matter. Period. Does an AIO convey a picture of good engineering or desperation because it runs 'so hot'? What I, or you, may think is not necessarily what 'Joe six-pack GPU buyer' thinks.

It IS more of a hassle to install vs. a normal, dual-slot card. This cannot be disputed. Not saying it is 'difficult' but requires some planning and experimentation.

If this IS the reference card, remember how that initial impression hurt the 290x as hot, throttling. How will this card be received? I don't know, but the AIO could play into that.

For those nick-picking me....I AM considering this card. It looks great. Just trying to get y'all to understand not everyone thinks like the AT crowd....marketing matters and opinions (however flawed) matter too.

Edit: Remember - GPU consumers are not always rational. Just look at the past 2 years and tell me people have been rational and logical in their choices. NV understands this. I hope AMD does as well.

Wait, this discussion is still going? The last thread to cover this was closed.

 

[exar333]

Wait, this discussion is still going? The last thread to cover this was closed.

Yeah, I can see why. I am done on this thread...

AMD could package the GPU in broken glass and some folks here would support that too.

I guess the marketshare in ~6 months will tell us if AMD made a good decision here. All I can say is I really hope non-AIO/CLC SKUs are available on launch-day. AMD can't afford to mess this up. Give people choices. If you can fit the cooler and have the 120mm slot open, great! If not, there should be an option too.

 

[Silverforce11]

Yeah, I can see why. I am done on this thread...

AMD could package the GPU in broken glass and some folks here would support that too.

I guess the marketshare in ~6 months will tell us if AMD made a good decision here. All I can say is I really hope non-AIO/CLC SKUs are available on launch-day. AMD can't afford to mess this up. Give people choices. If you can fit the cooler and have the 120mm slot open, great! If not, there should be an option too.

You make it seem like thinking that water cooling is a superior option to air cooling is a bad bad thing, as in broken glass bad... come on, let's lay off the bias. You don't even know if there's going to be custom AIB models. Similar TDP to R290X? Great, Sapphire Tri-X or Vapor-X coolers are cool & quiet, same for PCS+ or even XFX models. :/

 

[RampantAndroid]

Yeah, I can see why. I am done on this thread...

AMD could package the GPU in broken glass and some folks here would support that too.

I guess the marketshare in ~6 months will tell us if AMD made a good decision here. All I can say is I really hope non-AIO/CLC SKUs are available on launch-day. AMD can't afford to mess this up. Give people choices. If you can fit the cooler and have the 120mm slot open, great! If not, there should be an option too.

Agreed; I know that if the main option is AIO, I won't be buying any AMD GPUs. My case won't fit them (it can only fit a 1x120 without a lot of work. Silverstone FT02.

 

[lilltesaito]

Any bets that in the near future Nvidia will follow with AIO?
I think it will be a big hit and hope it pushes both companies forward. I am not sure why people are so scared of thinking outside the box and letting things evolve. Also anyone spending this kind of money on a video card most likely will not be turned off from AIO, come who does not want a warranty on a water cooled video card. That was only thing holding me back from doing it myself.

 

[tynopik]

Any bets that in the near future Nvidia will follow with AIO?
I think it will be a big hit and hope it pushes both companies forward. I am not sure why people are so scared of thinking outside the box and letting things evolve. Also anyone spending this kind of money on a video card most likely will not be turned off from AIO, come who does not want a warranty on a water cooled video card. That was only thing holding me back from doing it myself.

hooked a lurker

 

[lilltesaito]

Yes I have been around a long time, dont even remember when I start reading this site. But I had to say something on this. It just baffles me how this is a tech site and people are down talking something that should be great news for us all. Who does not want more options and better tech. I wish my 780 ti had AIO option, it is loud and gets hot when playing games.

 

[destrekor]

Agreed; I know that if the main option is AIO, I won't be buying any AMD GPUs. My case won't fit them (it can only fit a 1x120 without a lot of work. Silverstone FT02.

I'll admit that I rallied against the idea in the past, however, based on what various leaks there have been, it would seem the upcoming chip will have a similar power wattage to current day chips (perhaps a touch more?), so I suspect the AIB partners will be able to pitch cards that have standard coolers.

How well they handle the heat, and how much overclocking room they provide, that obviously will remain to be seen.

I hope partners like MSI and PowerCooler can provide strong standard coolers, because yes, I fear a requirement to have AIOs.

I myself am considering an AIO for my top card, as I have MSI 290X Lightnings in Crossfire. As both are tri-slot coolers, the top card has no breathing room thanks to my motherboard's spacing. My CPU cooler is massive, but I'd rather keep that than juggle multiple AIO coolers, especially as this one covers my OC, and even AIOs barely outcompete it, so why mess with it? (Noctua NH-D14).

Just about my only option to fit an AIO cooler in my case as it stands now, would be to add a Corsair H100 at the top of my case. The airflow draw would be tight against the NH-D14, but being able to spread the heat to a thinner 240mm radiator would go a long way.

The big thing will be to get a cooling system that will accommodate a 290X Lightning.

In case this seems too negative, let my expound on this issue.
My bottom 290X Lightning performs admirably, with minimal fan speed increases it maintains under 70ºC at the stock 290X Lightning clockrates. I'll have to test how well it tolerates a decent OC before it gets obnoxiously loud, but with ample breathing room, these cards perform wonderfully (based on the reference 290X, which is designed to ramp up to 90ºC or higher before the fans crank up, this GPU cooler is something akin to magic).
Put one sandwiched against another with basically a few millimeters of breathing room, it doesn't cool down as efficiently. The air also sounds a touch bit turbulent, which would make sense considering 3 fans are trying to draw air out from a gap that really should be larger.

Point being, for a certain aspect of the market, AIOs will be great. And I fully expect at least a few AIB partners to sell some standard air coolers. I have my suspicions that say that the entire market won't come to the rescue of the air-cooler fan, but I think there will be at least a few cards.

Also, lest anyone forget, we don't have a guarantee that reference cards will actually have an AIO. That could be a special chip, or a single-slot reference when they also have a dual-slot reference air cooler. I doubt the former but would be excited to see that, as usually these AIO coolers have the pump integrated into the heat spreader.

 

[n0x1ous]

Yes I have been around a long time, dont even remember when I start reading this site. But I had to say something on this. It just baffles me how this is a tech site and people are down talking something that should be great news for us all. Who does not want more options and better tech. I wish my 780 ti had AIO option, it is loud and gets hot when playing games.

It does! HG10 N1 + Corsair AIO = win

 

[96Firebird]

All I can say is I really hope non-AIO/CLC SKUs are available on launch-day.

This.

I don't know the reasoning behind the 290(X) not having aftermarket coolers at launch, that really would have sold me on the card. I was ready to buy for BF4. Instead, I waited for aftermarket coolers, prices went up due to mining, and I bought a 770.

I really hope at this point they have the final chip dimensions and power draw requirements and can give AIB partners the info they need to design the open-air coolers for launch day.

 

[ocre]

Any bets that in the near future Nvidia will follow with AIO?
I think it will be a big hit and hope it pushes both companies forward. I am not sure why people are so scared of thinking outside the box and letting things evolve. Also anyone spending this kind of money on a video card most likely will not be turned off from AIO, come who does not want a warranty on a water cooled video card. That was only thing holding me back from doing it myself.

It is more complicated....
There seems to be this crazy trend, PCs becoming smaller and smaller. Cases becoming stylish and compact. You can ignore it but manufactures and OEMs may not be so ready.

I don't think nvidia will pursue AIO solutions without much consideration.

If there was a massive adoption when AMD released the 295 x2, had it caused a major shift towards AMD in the high end, i think nvidia would have to take notice. It may have just been the case that this was a dual chip configuration, I can't say but this was a fantastic performer and priced very very well. Things might be different if it had completely taken of the high end market.

To be fair, that is a single card CF solution but there is still this glaring issue of how willing is the market to embrace Closed loop gpus. That remains to be seen. We can say this and we can say that, but be none of that matters in the end. These companies look at their surveys and all sorts of data and statistics. Nvidia will for sure to that route if the entire market shifted that way.

The 390x may be the card to cause such a shift. But its very naive to believe such a shift has already occurred.

I actually have a closed loop CPU cooler. I have been a PC nerd since I was a child. I followed the technology and loved it since the 90s. I have owned many components and built many systems. I used to work part time in a PC shop that sold and repaired computers. PCs have been a huge part of my life, in hobby and interest. I just have a love for it.

But, even with this background I would say that I was very slow in adopting water cooling. Even when closed loop systems came out, it took awhile for me to warm up to the idea. I had to reason it and wasnt quick to jump in. It took me seeing and knowing first hand how reliable closed loop systems were before I was willing to buy into it. I waited till I was sure that this was a proven technology that would last and was 100% safe.

I am completely okay with closed loops now but I do remember when I wasn't so quick to embrace. I understand that what I see as normal and casual, is not automatically how everyone else feels.

I think nvidia will not quickly jump on the AIO bandwagon. Not without much thought and consideration. If the 390x is well received and is taking away nvidias top end, they absolutely will have to look into it. But I think that the majority of GPU sales come from OEMs and prebiotic systems. This adds another layer and its not something I see changing overnight.
If AIOs are the future of gpus, it will happen over a time span. But no one will be able to deny that AMD forged the way. But honestly, I think they have their work cut out in order to achieve this. Its a little more complicated

 

[lilltesaito]

It is more complicated....
Text

You say are okay with it, but people in here are acting like this is a bad step in the wrong direction and that it should not be used. How can we get improvements if people are not open to new ideas.

 

[omeds]

The issue with a reference AIO unit is that it implies the GPU is going to be a power sucking, fire breathing monster.

The only other products that come with water cooling as standard are exactly that. 295x2 and FX9000 series. They come with water cooling because they require them, not because of uber leet omg oc ability turned to 11. This does not bode well for AMD imho.

 

[Silverforce11]

The issue with a reference AIO unit is that it implies the GPU is going to be a power sucking, fire breathing monster.

You mean like the R290X?
What if that power sucking monster had uber performance to go with it?

 

[Gikaseixas]

I'm ok with AIO on a fire breathing monster as long as it returns great performance or on a efficient gpu as long as it allows for higher OC than regular coolers.

by focusing on this AIO stuff, some here are just looking to grab onto something they think is a negative to talk trash. If this is all you've got get ready to find another fault because if this is indeed faster than anything else your objectives wont be achieved

 

[boozzer]

damn, I wish amd would just release the damn card now. 50% performance increase, I haven't been this excited about a gpu release in a long time. 980 was only 15% faster than a 290x, I was like meh. 50% is like woah! time to upgrade.

 

[Erenhardt]

The issue with a reference AIO unit is that it implies the GPU is going to be a power sucking, fire breathing monster.

The only other products that come with water cooling as standard are exactly that. 295x2 and FX9000 series. They come with water cooling because they require them, not because of uber leet omg oc ability turned to 11. This does not bode well for AMD imho.

Should you roll back to pre heat-pipes days?

In my days we used forks and shovels. People shouldn't use tractors as it is a sign of weakness!

Why would anyone invest $70 into CPU watercooling kit, but refuse to TOLERATE free* watercooling kit on GPU? GPU takes easily twice the amount of power of CPU. It clearly is a first part of PC to be watercooled.

Anyone who has watercooled CPU and bashes GPU watercooling design should be checked by a doctor after being hit in his empty skull with a banhammer.

 

[ocre]

You say are okay with it, but people in here are acting like this is a bad step in the wrong direction and that it should not be used. How can we get improvements if people are not open to new ideas.

I am perfectly okay with closed loop coolers. I absolutely love my LQ320, impressed than I ever thought I would. I picked up anther x58/i7 off eBay and intend to build another Xeon hex core rig, there is no way I would go any other route than a closed loop. The crazy thing is it came with a thermaltake 120m air cooler but after my LQ320, there is no way I want to use it.

I am completely hooked. But at the same time, I know that my opinion may not be the general markets feeling. And I know how long it took me to be bold enough to try a closed loop

 

[boozzer]

why do you guys make it sound like 390x would only be sold with a AIO? you got sources saying there will be no after market air cooler versions???

 

[digitaldurandal]

Yeah, I can see why. I am done on this thread...

AMD could package the GPU in broken glass and some folks here would support that too.

I guess the marketshare in ~6 months will tell us if AMD made a good decision here. All I can say is I really hope non-AIO/CLC SKUs are available on launch-day. AMD can't afford to mess this up. Give people choices. If you can fit the cooler and have the 120mm slot open, great! If not, there should be an option too.

You say you can see why the last thread was closed... and then make a hostile statement immediately afterwards.

 

[AtenRa]

Initial impressions matter. Period. Does an AIO convey a picture of good engineering or desperation because it runs 'so hot'? What I, or you, may think is not necessarily what 'Joe six-pack GPU buyer' thinks.

The only ones that will consider the AIO as desperation will be the fan-boys, the rest of the unaware consumers will think that the GPU has Alien technology. They will just think, Woww this Graphics Card is from another planet, i have to get this.

It IS more of a hassle to install vs. a normal, dual-slot card. This cannot be disputed. Not saying it is 'difficult' but requires some planning and experimentation.

I will agree with that, i my self prefer the dual/triple slot Air Cooled Heat-Sinks.

If this IS the reference card, remember how that initial impression hurt the 290x as hot, throttling. How will this card be received? I don't know, but the AIO could play into that.

Reviewers most probable will praise the card for low noise, low temps, high performance. The reviewers are not your average "joe", they already have used AIOs and they will most probable review the card in an open test bed.

 

[digitaldurandal]

You mean like the R290X?
What if that power sucking monster had uber performance to go with it?

Two please.

 

[Ramses]

theoretical AMD engineer: OK OK ok for effs sake, yes our stock blower cooler crap sucked, so here, here's a badass AIO that will cool down a volcano, happy now?

forum posting consumer: no