[Rumor, Tweaktown] AMD to launch next-gen Navi graphics cards at E3

[AtenRa]

Do a Ryzen again in GPUs and people will buy, simple as that.

If you dont have a competitive product people will go to the leader, simple as that.

Steam hardware survey is fine to look what GPUs gamers own, but this is not the same as market share. Last year AMD were selling more GPUs than today and yet no RX 580/570/Vega were visible in Steam Hardware Survey. Simple because 99% of those were used in mining rigs and not for gaming.

 

[Glo.]

AMD's discreet GPU marketshare is 30-35%.

 

[ozzy702]

Do a Ryzen again in GPUs and people will buy, simple as that.

If you dont have a competitive product people will go to the leader, simple as that.

Steam hardware survey is fine to look what GPUs gamers own, but this is not the same as market share. Last year AMD were selling more GPUs than today and yet no RX 580/570/Vega were visible in Steam Hardware Survey. Simple because 99% of those were used in mining rigs and not for gaming.

Yep, from my experience I'd wager less than 10% of polaris cards were actually purchased for gaming. None of my friends purchased polaris for gaming, but I know of ~ 100 that were purchased by myself and close friends for mining.

There's every indication that POW mining is effectively dead and will remain dead so moving forward AMD will really need to step it up to keep whatever market share it currently has, let alone increase market share. Mining has saved AMD GPU sales in recent years (wasn't nearly as big a factor with BTC mining), without it very few polaris cards would have sold. Shoot, I'd even wager that a huge number of Vegas were sold to people who purchased them to mine XMR before the bots ruined the market.

It's only recently with the phenomenal 570 prices that AMD cards are being purchased for gaming in large quantities.

 

[AtenRa]

I was thinking,

Why can't we have a GPU Chiplet product like CPUs ???

A single chip with memory controllers, I/O, Infinity Fabric, large L2 cache , Multimedia engine, PCI-e and Display interface

and connect,

Chiplets with just the Geometry engines + Compute Units etc etc

 

[Head1985]

AMD's discreet GPU marketshare is 30-35%.

Last time they were at 18%.That was from february before 1660/1660TI launch.
https://wccftech.com/nvidia-amd-discrete-gpu-market-share-q4-2018-report/

 

[Head1985]

Do a Ryzen again in GPUs and people will buy, simple as that.

If you dont have a competitive product people will go to the leader, simple as that.

Steam hardware survey is fine to look what GPUs gamers own, but this is not the same as market share. Last year AMD were selling more GPUs than today and yet no RX 580/570/Vega were visible in Steam Hardware Survey. Simple because 99% of those were used in mining rigs and not for gaming.

Yeah... pretty much this.
Btw last time AMD undercut nvidia AT launch was with r9 390x.390x lauched at 430usd and GTX980 at that time was for 500USD.Since then they didnt undercut NV at launch.
Vega 1.5years later more power hungry and for same money as GTX1080
Furyx less Vram, slower and same money as 980TI
rx480 more power hungry and slower at launch vs GTX1060 for same money
Radeon7 2years later than 1080TI for same money
Rx580 GTX1060 performance more power hungry for same money
RX590 10% faster than GTX1060 but cost 50USD more.

Also polaris/vega is now cheap, but thats not because AMD lowered prices.Its because Mining crashed and oversupply + miners selling cheap cards from mining.They were not cheaper at launch.

 

[AtenRa]

Yeah... pretty much this.
Btw last time AMD undercut nvidia AT launch was with r9 390x.390x lauched at 430usd and GTX980 at that time was for 500USD.Since then they didnt undercut NV at launch.
Vega 1.5years later more power hungry and for same money as GTX1080
Furyx less Vram, slower and same money as 980TI
rx480 more power hungry and slower at launch vs GTX1060 for same money
Radeon7 2years later than 1080TI for same money
Rx580 GTX1060 performance more power hungry for same money
RX590 10% faster than GTX1060 but cost 50USD more.

Also polaris/vega is now cheap, but thats not because AMD lowered prices.Its because Mining crashed and oversupply + miners selling cheap cards from mining.They were not cheaper at launch.

Except for FURY X, Vega 64 LC and Radeon VII , other AMD GPUs had lower MSRPs than NVIDIA and launched first (POLARIS 10). Vega 64 MSRP was $100 less than GTX 1080 and Vega 56 was faster than GTX1070 from day one with only $20 more.

MSRPs

RX 480 8GB (June 2016) = $239
RX 480 4GB (June 2016) = $199

GTX 1060 6GB (August 2016) = $249, FE $299
GTX 1060 3GB (August 2016) = $199

Vega 64 LC (August 2017) = $699
Vega 64 (August 2017) = $499
Vega 56 (August 2017) = $399

GTX 1080Ti (March 2017) = $699
GTX 1080 (May 2016) = $599 , FE $699
GTX 1080Ti (June 2016) = $379 , FE $449

Anyway, AMD have to deliver something good this time with NAVI otherwise they are going to get hammered hard from uninformed consumers/NV supporters , due to 7nm vs NVIDIAs 12nm.
Even if NAVI will be at the same performance as Turing, people will say how bad AMD tech is and when NV will go to 7nm they will destroy NAVI.

AMD needs a RYZEN launch with NAVI to shake up GPU waters, to make people want to leave NVIDIA old hardware and upgrade to NAVI. Otherwise we will get the same thing as last time.

 

[happy medium]

Steam hardware survey doesn't show that, market data analysis doesn't show that. It seems as though the GTX 1050ti outsold the RX 470/570 by a 5 to 1 margin.

It seems as though the GTX 1060 outsold the RX 480/580 by 6 to 1 margin.

And the market share shows this also.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sou...aw2PU8Yl3B1irbVAqtnNpayO&ust=1557729053725903

 

[Head1985]

Except for FURY X, Vega 64 LC and Radeon VII , other AMD GPUs had lower MSRPs than NVIDIA and launched first (POLARIS 10). Vega 64 MSRP was $100 less than GTX 1080 and Vega 56 was faster than GTX1070 from day one with only $20 more.

MSRPs

RX 480 8GB (June 2016) = $239
RX 480 4GB (June 2016) = $199

GTX 1060 6GB (August 2016) = $249, FE $299
GTX 1060 3GB (August 2016) = $199

Vega 64 LC (August 2017) = $699
Vega 64 (August 2017) = $499
Vega 56 (August 2017) = $399

GTX 1080Ti (March 2017) = $699
GTX 1080 (May 2016) = $599 , FE $699
GTX 1080Ti (June 2016) = $379 , FE $449

Anyway, AMD have to deliver something good this time with NAVI otherwise they are going to get hammered hard from uninformed consumers/NV supporters , due to 7nm vs NVIDIAs 12nm.
Even if NAVI will be at the same performance as Turing, people will say how bad AMD tech is and when NV will go to 7nm they will destroy NAVI.

AMD needs a RYZEN launch with NAVI to shake up GPU waters, to make people want to leave NVIDIA old hardware and upgrade to NAVI. Otherwise we will get the same thing as last time.

vega64 launched 1.5year later.At that time GTX1080 MSRP was 500usd(1080 price went down after 1080TI launch for same money as previous 1080)..Vega 64 LC was 700usd that was 1080TI price but it was way slower.
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Radeon_RX_Vega_64/
And i think rx480/1060 cost pretty much same.

 

[railven]

vega64 launched 1.5year later.At that time GTX1080 MSRP was 500usd(1080 price went down after 1080TI launch for same many as previous 1080)..Vega 64 LC was 700usd that was 1080TI price but it was way slower.
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Radeon_RX_Vega_64/
And i think rx480/1060 cost pretty much same.

And if you were to take the rumors around the time of releases, NV dropped GTX 1080 to sack Vega. I'm sure AMD would have loved to price their newest architecture at $650, instead they had to settle for <$500 because NV decided to be "generous" and price cut their GTX 1080 to make room for the GTX 1080 Ti. We all know NV is a generous corporation, don't we?

Vega came out with no steam. GTX 1080 punched it in the stomach making it if you were able to get a Vega at original MSRP (rebates/vendors - who's fault - you decide) you got a good deal but that window was so short lived it's almost disingenuous to use it as a debate point (same as NV's non-FE pricing). Because of mining and the bundles fiasco, Vega cards were going for $100+ MSRP putting them basically in no man's land. $600+ Vega 64 vs $500+ GTX 1080 or $700+ Vega 64 LC putting it against $700+ GTX 1080 Ti. Yeah, that's a lose-lose for AMD.

 

[Head1985]

Like atenra said they need another ryzen.They have probaly now under 18% market share.So 90-95% performance of Nv cards for half price.If they do that and if they have AIB cards day1 ready with great supply people will buy them.
But if its another "matching Nv prices 1year later with more power hungry GPU" and with AIB cards 6months after launch with limited supply.People will not buy them.Simple as that.
Last time they undercut NV was with 390x launch so i dont have high hopes.

 

[Glo.]

So 90-95% performance of Nv cards for half price.

Thats the problem here for AMD. AMD and ATi has brand perception that for people to buy their products they need to outvalue their competitiors for their hardware to sell. Where is the financial incentive for AMD to design good GPUs?

Lets say that 40 CU chip has 150W TDP, and performance of RTX 2080. AMD prices it at 599$. Is it good deal, for GPU that is as fast, or faster than RTX 2080, uses less power and costs 100$ less? Of course it is. Would people buy it?

Not as much as Nvidia RTX-hyped RTX2080, because they are AMD's GPUs.

 

[Dribble]

Thats the problem here for AMD. AMD and ATi has brand perception that for people to buy their products they need to outvalue their competitiors for their hardware to sell. Where is the financial incentive for AMD to design good GPUs?

That's silly. If their gpu's are good they will sell more, if their gpu's are bad they will sell less. Obviously releasing a good gpu doesn't magically turn AMD into Nvidia, but if they can repeatedly do it they will catch up.

 

[Head1985]

Thats the problem here for AMD. AMD and ATi has brand perception that for people to buy their products they need to outvalue their competitiors for their hardware to sell. Where is the financial incentive for AMD to design good GPUs?

Lets say that 40 CU chip has 150W TDP, and performance of RTX 2080. AMD prices it at 599$. Is it good deal, for GPU that is as fast, or faster than RTX 2080, uses less power and costs 100$ less? Of course it is. Would people buy it?

Not as much as Nvidia RTX-hyped RTX2080, because they are AMD's GPUs.

1080TI performance 3 years later for 600usd no thanks.How you can say it is good deal?Its mega crap.
btw rx640/630 spoted in drivers..Its polaris rebrand.
https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-radeon-rx-640-and-radeon-630-spotted-in-the-drivers

 

[JoeRambo]

AMD needs to be build good products and people will come.
There are obviously people who will keep on buying Nvidia no matter what, there are people who want AMD to have competitive top tier products so they can buy Nvidia cards cheaper.
But there is huge amount of market => the crowd that just wants a great deal for their money in the middle of performance pecking ladder. They are very price and value aware/sensitive and not really sensitive to their cards using say 30-50w and/or being noisier. Missing on RTX is no big deal to them either for at least 1 more gen.
In a normal non-mining inflated world these guys should be AMD's bread and butter, and "RX480" on 7nm, should be what they get to buy, not some another delusional attempt at taking performance crown. No BOM inflating fancy memory, reticle size busting monsters on interposers, just 150-200mm^2 sized chip, that has 1160ti performance in 160w watt budget. Being late is irrelevant as long as price is good.

P.S. It's not like NV is not aware of this market 101, they've built chips like TU116 to exactly counter and preempt AMD's 7nm move into this huge and lucrative market. Sticking to RTX enabled chips would have limited their pricing options too much vs AMDs 7nm chips.

 

[AtenRa]

1080TI performance 3 years later for 600usd no thanks.How you can say it is good deal?Its mega crap.

I will agree, we constantly raise our voice here in AT forums for the higher NVIDIA prices that came with Turing.
Releasing a GTX1080Ti/RTX2080 performance for $600 in Q3 2019 is crap. This performance in Q3 2019 should be at $250-300 tops from both of them.

 

[Glo.]

1080TI performance 3 years later for 600usd no thanks.How you can say it is good deal?Its mega crap.
btw rx640/630 spoted in drivers..Its polaris rebrand.
https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-radeon-rx-640-and-radeon-630-spotted-in-the-drivers

Exactly the point. Where is the incentive for AMD to design more powerful GPUs, if those what they will design, will be considered crap, despite being as fast, or faster than Nvidia's latest offering, use less power, and also - cheaper.

AMD to succeed in people minds has to be twice as fast as Nvidia latest offerings, or cost half as much. Which makes completely pointless for AMD to design GPUs if there is no money incentive. Just for the sake of it?

Again. People want AMD to be competitive so they can buy Nvidia GPUs cheaper.

 

[AtenRa]

Exactly the point. Where is the incentive for AMD to design more powerful GPUs, if those what they will design, will be considered crap, despite being as fast, or faster than Nvidia's latest offering, use less power, and also - cheaper.

AMD to succeed in people minds has to be twice as fast as Nvidia latest offerings, or cost half as much. Which makes completely pointless for AMD to design GPUs if there is no money incentive. Just for the sake of it?

Again. People want AMD to be competitive so they can buy Nvidia GPUs cheaper.

We are regarding RTX2080(GTX1080Ti) performance today at $600 crap as consumers because we had this perf at that price for 2 years now..
If AMD will release NAVI with the same performance as GTX1080Ti 2 years later at $600 it is crap, much like RTX2080/RADEON VII is today.

 

[exquisitechar]

Navi does need to crush Turing in perf/$ to have a chance to grab some real market share. Luckily for AMD, Nvidia made it easy for them to accomplish that by releasing such an underwhelming lineup of cards, with their 7nm cards being rather far off as well.

 

[DrMrLordX]

If AMD will release NAVI with the same performance as GTX1080Ti 2 years later at $600 it is crap, much like RTX2080/RADEON VII is today.

Don't worry. Navi will be slower than that, and cost half as much. Problem solved!

 

[Glo.]

Don't worry. Navi will be slower than that, and cost half as much. Problem solved!

RTX 2060 performance for 350$? Are you sure problem is solved here?

 

[fleshconsumed]

AMD needs to be build good products and people will come.

There are obviously people who will keep on buying Nvidia no matter what, there are people who want AMD to have competitive top tier products so they can buy Nvidia cards cheaper.

But there is huge amount of market => the crowd that just wants a great deal for their money in the middle of performance pecking ladder. They are very price and value aware/sensitive and not really sensitive to their cards using say 30-50w and/or being noisier. Missing on RTX is no big deal to them either for at least 1 more gen.

In a normal non-mining inflated world these guys should be AMD's bread and butter, and "RX480" on 7nm, should be what they get to buy, not some another delusional attempt at taking performance crown. No BOM inflating fancy memory, reticle size busting monsters on interposers, just 150-200mm^2 sized chip, that has 1160ti performance in 160w watt budget. Being late is irrelevant as long as price is good.

That's me. I'm a casual gamer. I'm not going to spend $600+ for current top of the line - I just don't game enough to justify spending that kind of money. And I hate how even budget chips now push $300-350 mark. I miss the days when I could buy one step down from flagship for $250-350. This is why I'm rocking Ryzen now - because they provide excellent value for the money even if their single threaded performance is not as good as Intel. I want the same value in GPU segment too, unfortunately AMD GPUs just can't deliver the same value right now. If Navi can change that then I'm finally upgrading my RX480. I miss the days of reasonable middle.

 

[Stuka87]

1080TI performance 3 years later for 600usd no thanks.How you can say it is good deal?Its mega crap.
btw rx640/630 spoted in drivers..Its polaris rebrand.
https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-radeon-rx-640-and-radeon-630-spotted-in-the-drivers

1: nVidia is the one you should be blaming. If RTX 2080 didn't cost what it does, the Radeon VII never would have been priced there.

2: Rebrands happen all the time from both makers. Especially in low end cards, which are the last to see new hardware in most cases since they get trickle down hardware. What was an RX550 now becomes an RX640, etc.

 

[Guru]

I will agree, we constantly raise our voice here in AT forums for the higher NVIDIA prices that came with Turing.
Releasing a GTX1080Ti/RTX2080 performance for $600 in Q3 2019 is crap. This performance in Q3 2019 should be at $250-300 tops from both of them.

This is the problem, Why should AMD sell RTX 2080 performance level cards for $250, when Nvidia's cheapest and slowest option sells for $250 in the GTX 1660. I mean most custom GTX 1660 models sell for $240, the GTX 1660ti sells for $290/300, the RTX 2060 sells for $370/380, etc...

Why should AMD have to sell a RTX 2080 level performance GPU for less than what Nvidia is selling their shitware as the GTX 1660 and GTX 1660ti?

This is the problem for AMD, you and people like you ONLY want Nvidia hardware no matter what, even if AMD came out with $250 RTX 2080 killer, you'd still buy an overpriced 2080ti and say its 30% faster, therefore its worth $750 over a $250 amd gpu that is equal to the 2080.

You want the impossible from AMD in order to justify your overpriced Nvidia purchase. Again how and why would AMD release a RTX 2080 performance GPU for $250, cheaper than Nvidia's redactedlike the GTX 1660?



No profanity in tech. This is your 5th infraction.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[amrnuke]

That's silly. If their gpu's are good they will sell more, if their gpu's are bad they will sell less. Obviously releasing a good gpu doesn't magically turn AMD into Nvidia, but if they can repeatedly do it they will catch up.

"if their gpu's are bad they will sell less"

And what about the nVidia 1050, 1650? Bad GPUs can sell well based not on how good they are, but because of market perception.