[Rumor, Tweaktown] AMD to launch next-gen Navi graphics cards at E3

[Glo.]

Like Glo. said a few pages back, it's a clean sheet design and you can't make any assumptions/guesses on it, because nothing like it has existed before! I mean...oh wait.

This is perhaps the worst hype thread ever. There is literally nothing to spin and we're at like page 37. Moment you make any kind of prediction you're shut down because 'CLEAN SHEET DESIGN'!!!

And who is hyping what? As I see so far, everybody has really... realistic or low expectations about Navi GPUs.

 

[railven]

And who is hyping what? As I see so far, everybody has really... realistic or low expectations about Navi GPUs.

No one is, because no one can! We don't have any info yet, we're at 37 pages of what? IE terrible hype thread. Guess I'll just swing back after E3. Interested to see what AMD has, at this rate all I know is no one but Glo. can make valid predictions.

 

[Glo.]

Exactly this and it says that for the near future at least AMD either settles for lower margins than the competition and work at rebuilding their brand or they abandon any attempt to reclaim significant marketshare. As it is right now, they have gotten some gains recently but this is probably driven by excellent present prices on 570 & Vega models. Abandoning this to price closely to Nvidia is foolish long term, in my opinion. It sucks for them, but it is what it is.

In my country, pretty much no one wants AMD or even know them, and you have to search all over for any model at ridiculous prices. Nvidia models however are ubiquitous. I remember when polaris came out, no one stocked them, but there were 290 models still selling for ~$ 3300TT = $500US. A graphics card is Nvidia almost by default. luckily it's easy for us to buy stuff in the US and ship. Quite cheap actually, so I buy all my stuff from US retailers.

Or... AMD will simply go for price margins, and price those GPUs at competitive price points to Nvidia counterparts.

On the other hand, we already have rumors that Nvidia will cut RTX GPUs by 100$, which also should indicate to you what Navi GPUs actually are.

 

[Glo.]

No one is, because no one can! We don't have any info yet, we're at 37 pages of what? IE terrible hype thread. Guess I'll just swing back after E3. Interested to see what AMD has, at this rate all I know is no one but Glo. can make valid predictions.

Then make realistic ones. So far I have seen that ":RX 5700 based on PREVIOUS history will be 10% slower than RTX 2070, and use more power".

When even the AMD rep already clearly indicated that it is cleen sheet design not comparable to previous history.

Considering that Nvidia rumors started to break out, about them lowering RTX GPUs prices by 100$, I will make my prediction, which will be directly related to previous one:

Navi 10 GPUs:
1) RTX 2070+10-15% performance, for 399$.
2) 90-95% of RTX 2070 performance for 299$.
Navi 14:
1) Between GTX 1660 and GTX 1660 Ti performance, for 199$
2) RX 590 performance for 150$.

 

[exquisitechar]

No one is, because no one can! We don't have any info yet, we're at 37 pages of what? IE terrible hype thread. Guess I'll just swing back after E3. Interested to see what AMD has, at this rate all I know is no one but Glo. can make valid predictions.

People can make predictions. I think Glo. was just pointing out something people have said about AMD's Strange Brigade demo, that it indicates that Navi will be quite a bit slower than the 2070 because current GCN cards do well in that game. Disregarding the fact that that is seemingly not even true since a new driver has put the 2080 5% above the Radeon VII, the "clean sheet" design thing matters a lot when you try to draw such conclusions from that demo...

Then make realistic ones. So far I have seen that ":RX 5700 based on PREVIOUS history will be 10% slower than RTX 2070, and use more power".

When even the AMD rep already clearly indicated that it is cleen sheet design not comparable to previous history.

Considering that Nvidia rumors started to break out, about them lowering RTX GPUs proces by 100$, I will make my prediction, which will be directly related to previous one:

Navi 10 GPUs:
1) RTX 2070+10-15% performance, for 399$.
2) 90-95% of RTX 2070 performance for 299$.
Navi 14:
1) Between GTX 1660 and GTX 1660 Ti performance, for 199$
2) RX 590 performance for 150$.

That would be great.

 

[Glo.]

People can make predictions. I think Glo. was just pointing out something people have said about AMD's Strange Brigade demo, that it indicates that Navi will be quite a bit slower than the 2070 because current GCN cards do well in that game. Disregarding the fact that that is seemingly not even true since a new driver has put the 2080 5% above the Radeon VII, the "clean sheet" design thing matters a lot when you try to draw such conclusions from that demo...

Exactly...

 

[railven]

People can make predictions. I think Glo. was just pointing out something people have said about AMD's Strange Brigade demo, that it indicates that Navi will be quite a bit slower than the 2070 because current GCN cards do well in that game. Disregarding the fact that that is seemingly not even true since a new driver has put the 2080 5% above the Radeon VII, the "clean sheet" design thing matters a lot when you try to draw such conclusions from that demo...

That was already discussed, and I haven't seen that point pop up again at least in the last few pages (they focused heavily on power consumption). Yet, you find this post in there, and you think "all he wants to do is point out a driver revision" we're reading different conversations.

And where, the ****, AMD has announced ANYTHING about Navi, apart from series name?

Nowhere. Nothing officially, apart from Radeon RX 5700 Series exists. No SKUs, No performance, Prices, no TBP/TDP. Only Rumored(!) TDP and TBP based on ASRock's information, which even this is UNOFFICIAL.

What are you basing on, your assumptions? Imagination?

Those are some rather conflicting statements. If one person is arguing from his imagination what is the other one doing considering the statement in bold?

EDIT: The power consumption topic:
Rav: Here is my assumption based on Vega vs Turing.
Glo: that's wrong because...
Rav: but....
Glo: wrong because ...
Rav: but ....
Glo: CLEAN SHEET DESIGN

This is what ATF is now? Gotcha.

 

[Glo.]

Those are some rather conflicting statements. If one person is arguing from his imagination what is the other one doing considering the statement in bold?

EDIT: The power consumption topic:
Rav: Here is my assumption based on Vega vs Turing.
Glo: that's wrong because...
Rav: but....
Glo: wrong because ...
Rav: but ....
Glo: CLEAN SHEET DESIGN

This is what ATF is now? Gotcha.

Its funny that you talk only about me, but not once you said anything about Navi. Didn't posted any prediction you have, in regards to versions of GPU, its pricing, anything. You also create this forum. If my points of view, do not resonate with you WHY NOT TAKE CONTROL OF DISCUSSION AND ADD SOMETHING TO IT?!

Do I stop you from making something like this:

Navi 10 GPUs:
1) RTX 2070+10-15% performance, for 399$.
2) 90-95% of RTX 2070 performance for 299$.
Navi 14:
1) Between GTX 1660 and GTX 1660 Ti performance, for 199$
2) RX 590 performance for 150$.

?

 

[railven]

Its funny that you talk only about me, but not once you said anything about Navi. Didn't posted any prediction you have, in regards to versions of GPU, its pricing, anything. You also create this forum. If my points of view, do not resonate with you WHY NOT TAKE CONTROL OF DISCUSSION AND ADD SOMETHING TO IT?!

Odd thing is you probably missed my prediction/opinion. But it's there:

I'm not sure if I made my opinion obvious, but Navi sounds like it's just going to be an AMD flavored RTX 2070 minus some features. All well and good. I don't expect it to make a huge impact. But the attempts to spin this to a positive is ridiculous.

 

[tviceman]

People can make predictions. I think Glo. was just pointing out something people have said about AMD's Strange Brigade demo, that it indicates that Navi will be quite a bit slower than the 2070 because current GCN cards do well in that game. Disregarding the fact that that is seemingly not even true since a new driver has put the 2080 5% above the Radeon VII, the "clean sheet" design thing matters a lot when you try to draw such conclusions from that demo...

That would be great.

How do we know that AMD used recent drivers from Nvidia to produce their results? Nvidia used old drivers/ results several times when they were still releasing regular Tegra chips, and Intel does it every time they release a new iGPU. The very fact that AMD was, up until recently, heavily favored in that game and is the single only benchmark they released smells like a fart in the wind from a turd rotting in the grass. Hell, even when Radeon VII came out, AMD was touting "equal performance" to GTX 2080, only to be shown by dozens of reviews that was incorrect when looking at the big picture.

It's going to be noticeably slower overall than a GTX 2070, otherwise they would have showed a full slate of benchmarks.

 

[DrMrLordX]

we already have rumors that Nvidia will cut RTX GPUs by 100$, which also should indicate to you what Navi GPUs actually are.

Not sure that Navi is responsible for that. RTX cards outside of maybe the 2080 and 2080Ti are, shall we say, a pretty bad buy for the consumer? I can't think of why I would recommend either the 2060 or 2070 to anyone, for reasons that should be obvious. NV already had to go to a lot of trouble to get 1080Tis and such out into the channel and sold to make room for Turing. If they want to refresh Turing this year or the next, they've got to do more work clearing the channel. NV is competing with themselves right now. Navi may not even be on their radar until next year, unless AMD hits them in the gut.

By the way,

Navi 10 GPUs:
1) RTX 2070+10-15% performance, for 399$.
2) 90-95% of RTX 2070 performance for 299$.
Navi 14:
1) Between GTX 1660 and GTX 1660 Ti performance, for 199$
2) RX 590 performance for 150$.

That would be just fine, and is very close to what a lot of us who are saying, "But AMD is charging too much!!!" want from AMD this year. Navi10 @ $299 would do a lot to disrupt RTX 2060 and 1660Ti. That would be a best-case.

 

[Ajay]

AMD @ E3: https://www.amd.com/en/events/e3

 

[beginner99]

Since half of last year, RX 570 was going for 130-150$. At the time GTX 1050 Ti was costing 160-170$.

In US maybe, not here. I just checked, the 570 on average here is even a bit more expensive but then it greatly depends on the model you choose in both cases as the span is huge.

 

[pepone1234]

I asked this beginner99, I will ask you the same thing.

If Majority of market having the option between GTX 1050 Ti, and 40% faster, and 20$ most of the time RX 570 still picked GTX 1050 Ti, what makes you believe that it would be anything different with Navi GPU?

And if so, what benefit would be for AMD to price their GPU at a discount, compared to Nvidia's offering, and still do not get any sales?

Because as your own image shows, this happens

 

[Head1985]

Rumor: NVIDIA Super is a Refreshed GeForce RTX 2060 ($249), 2070 ($399), 2080 ($599)
https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/r...force-rtx-2060-(249)2070-(399)2080-(599).html

yeah looks like when AMD have something that atleast looks like competition nvidia can sale their GPUs at somehow normal prices.So much for "turing die size too big" price defenders....

 

[AtenRa]

Because as your own image shows, this happens

If you lower RX570 to 75W TDP, it will still be faster and cheaper than GTX1050Ti

The reason why the GTX1050Ti sold that much is not only because of the 75W TDP. Unless you really believe that 15-20% of steam Gamers can only use a 75W TDP card.

 

[pepone1234]

If you lower RX570 to 75W TDP, it will still be faster and cheaper than GTX1050Ti

The reason why the GTX1050Ti sold that much is not only because of the 75W TDP. Unless you really believe that 15-20% of steam Gamers can only use a 75W TDP card.

The 1050ti sold that much because almost nobody is going to undervolt and underclock a card. Especially the OEMS and laptop manufacturers.

They use the cards "as is" and in that case, the 570 consumes much more power than the 1050ti

 

[DrMrLordX]

Rumor: NVIDIA Super is a Refreshed GeForce RTX 2060 ($249), 2070 ($399), 2080 ($599)
https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/r...force-rtx-2060-(249)2070-(399)2080-(599).html

yeah looks like when AMD have something that atleast looks like competition nvidia can sale their GPUs at somehow normal prices.So much for "turing die size too big" price defenders....

If NV is going to cut prices like that, then AMD needs to tread carefully. Should mean 1660Ti prices have to come down, too. Why buy a 1660Ti today for $279 when you can get an RTX 2060 refresh for $249? Even Radeon VII prices will have to come down, at least at the street level if not MSRP.

They use the cards "as is" and in that case, the 570 consumes much more power than the 1050ti

AMD could have sold a batch to OEMs at lower power levels if the demand had been there.

 

[maddie]

Where I live the power argument/excuse is BS. I found 1 store selling Radeon cards and with only 2 out of production models at inflated prices. Everyone has a large selection of Nvidia cards as most customers (95%+) ask for a Geforce almost by default when buying. AMD has little to no brand value here. I've had to explain to friends why I suggested a 570 model instead of a 1050Ti in situations where they accepted everything else in the build, component wise. Electricity here is around US 6 cents/KWh.

 

[Zstream]

If NV is going to cut prices like that, then AMD needs to tread carefully. Should mean 1660Ti prices have to come down, too. Why buy a 1660Ti today for $279 when you can get an RTX 2060 refresh for $249? Even Radeon VII prices will have to come down, at least at the street level if not MSRP.



AMD could have sold a batch to OEMs at lower power levels if the demand had been there.

Well that just makes me frustrated! I just purchased a 2060 three months ago for over $320

 

[JDG1980]

Considering that Nvidia rumors started to break out, about them lowering RTX GPUs prices by 100$, I will make my prediction, which will be directly related to previous one:

Navi 10 GPUs:
1) RTX 2070+10-15% performance, for 399$.
2) 90-95% of RTX 2070 performance for 299$.
Navi 14:
1) Between GTX 1660 and GTX 1660 Ti performance, for 199$
2) RX 590 performance for 150$.

Assuming those are real average performance levels (e.g. as measured by TechPowerUp's summary of multiple titles) and Nvidia's prices don't drop in the interim, yes, I can see those as being sensible price points.

 

[JDG1980]

If you lower RX570 to 75W TDP, it will still be faster and cheaper than GTX1050Ti

The reason why the GTX1050Ti sold that much is not only because of the 75W TDP. Unless you really believe that 15-20% of steam Gamers can only use a 75W TDP card.

Yes, you can get more performance out of Polaris 10 than GP107 at a 75W TDP - the Radeon WX 5100 professional card demonstrates this. Unfortunately, AMD has not seen fit to release a consumer Polaris 10 card with a TDP that low.

And, yes, I find it completely plausible that 15-20% of Steam gamers are using crappy OEM systems with sub-75W add-in cards.

 

[Ajay]

Like Glo. said a few pages back, it's a clean sheet design and you can't make any assumptions/guesses on it, because nothing like it has existed before! I mean...oh wait.

This is perhaps the worst hype thread ever. There is literally nothing to spin and we're at like page 37. Moment you make any kind of prediction you're shut down because 'CLEAN SHEET DESIGN'!!!

Yeah, I’m hoping we get more info at E3 (maybe even a launch announcement). If in fact RDNA is a departure from CGN, then I agree all bets are off. At least AMD is adding some excitement to the PC market.

 

[Glo.]

For the majority of market, for those who buy GTX1050 Ti the price is the most important thing. And price/performance ratio is emanation of that.

The 1050ti sold that much because almost nobody is going to undervolt and underclock a card. Especially the OEMS and laptop manufacturers.

They use the cards "as is" and in that case, the 570 consumes much more power than the 1050ti

What you are telling me is that GTX 1060 3 GB class GPU is worse buy for GTX 1050 Ti buyers, because it has 6-8 pin connector, even if it costs 20-30$ less than GTX 1050 Ti. In the market for which price/performance is everything.

RX 560 was also a GPU that not required 6 pin connector, is as fast as GTX 1050, with latest drivers, and was 30-40$ cheaper than GTX 1050(RX 560 was selling for 99-109$).

Nobody bought it either. To the point where AMD stopped selling RX 560 to companies, and pushed all of its production to OEMs, only, of those GPUs.

The only reason why people want AMD to be competitive is that they can buy Nvidia GPUs cheaper. If AMD is competitive, or have better products, on sale they still do not get those sales.

I will not even dive on RX 580 4 GB models which were sold for 150$ for past 8 months. And still were outsold by Nvidia GPUs which were more expensive, and SLOWER.

AMD does not have recognition, and brand perception to price their products at a discount to Nvidia, because either way, they will be outsold by their competitors by 7:3 ratio. There is no logic for AMD to price RX 5700 series massively cheaper than Nvidia.

 

[Glo.]

Assuming those are real average performance levels (e.g. as measured by TechPowerUp's summary of multiple titles) and Nvidia's prices don't drop in the interim, yes, I can see those as being sensible price points.

You do realize that TechPowerUp's charts are easiest to fathom for average users, but at the same time, the worst of them all?

Their data usually does not cope well with other review sites. HardwareCanucks, Hardware Unboxed/TechSpot, Tom's Hardware reviews are showing similar results to each other. But vastly different to TPU's.

I find TPU to be outlier review site, which vastly differes in results to other sites(which most of the time updates their data sheets and redo all of the testing, with latest drivers, which TPU appears to not be doing).

About the prices. What is wrong with AMD pricing 10-15% faster GPU than RTX 2070, at the same price(399$)?