[Rumor, Tweaktown] AMD to launch next-gen Navi graphics cards at E3

[coercitiv]

3 of them have been returned, that's why are they so cheap... you know "Open Box:"

Then let me rephrase that: do current $480 aftermarket RTX 2070 cards sold on the likes of Newegg and Amazon include the 25% tariff as well?

 

[Glo.]

GPU market need intel ASAP because both AMD and NV want only one thing: milking pc gamers nothing more.Competition dont work at all.

Those who believe Intel will be savior of Consumer GPUs, considering that he just put billions of dollars into GPU R&D, and he has to maintain high margins(thats what Intel is famous for!) on their products should put their beliefs where they belong.

 

[coercitiv]

Those who believe Intel will be savior of Consumer GPUs should put their beliefs where they belong.

Those who believe Intel intends to enter the consumer GPU market for an AMD-like piece of the pie should put their beliefs where they belong.

 

[Glo.]

Those who believe Intel intends to enter the consumer GPU market for an AMD-like piece of the pie should put their beliefs where they belong.

Intel wants Nvidia's pie. And what this means: mobile GPUs in the first place.

And those also compete with AMD's GPUs. Nothing here excludes itself. And unfortunately for us, this means no low prices for dGPUs, anymore.

 

[exquisitechar]

Those who believe Intel intends to enter the consumer GPU market for an AMD-like piece of the pie should put their beliefs where they belong.

With competitive GPUs, Intel has all bases covered (CPU, GPU, FPGA, and so on). They primarily intend to shove their GPUs in laptops by leveraging their clout with OEMs and to use them in data centers, the client dGPU market is irrelevant in comparison. Gotta agree with Glo., there is no bright future for client dGPUs. Wait until we get to 5nm and beyond! The costs for bringing a single chip to market will be insane, and at some point it won't even be economically viable to do so. Since it is a much smaller market and a chiplet approach with GPUs is much more difficult than with CPUs, the client dGPU market will reach that point first.

These prices are just the beginning. With Navi, AMD showed that they aren't interested in lowering margins in an attempt to grab a bigger piece of the relatively small GPU market pie from Nvidia, and I highly doubt that Intel will be any different. There being three players will just mean lower volumes for everybody, and coupled with how increasingly expensive it's getting for them to develop GPUs, I don't anticipate lower prices anytime soon.

 

[beginner99]

Those who believe Intel intends to enter the consumer GPU market for an AMD-like piece of the pie should put their beliefs where they belong.

Exactly. And as we know from mobile/Atom they are willing to take a loss at first to get market share. Of course it still requires a good product but I doubt intel will make the same pricing mistake AMD is doing. In fact nv and AMD gave them a huge opening. When intel started the project I doubt they planned with 0 performance/$ increase in last 3 years. If they planned for midrange in 2020, the top dgpu should easily reach GTX2070 level and since that is midrange they probably planned for max $300. If intel releases in Q12020 neither AMD nor NV have anything new to offer compared to now. Intel can simply release at $350 (more than they planned) and still be competitive.

Nope. Intel usually goes all-in. If they have a product worth buying (no driver or IQ issues, midrange) then the price will be right.

 

[Glo.]

With competitive GPUs, Intel has all bases covered (CPU, GPU, FPGA, and so on). They primarily intend to shove their GPUs in laptops by leveraging their clout with OEMs and to use them in data centers, the client dGPU market is irrelevant in comparison. Gotta agree with Glo., there is no bright future for client dGPUs. Wait until we get to 5nm and beyond! The costs for bringing a single chip to market will be insane, and at some point it won't even be economically viable to do so. Since it is a much smaller market and a chiplet approach with GPUs is much more difficult than with CPUs, the client dGPU market will reach that point first.

These prices are just the beginning. With Navi, AMD showed that they aren't interested in lowering margins in an attempt to grab a bigger piece of the relatively small GPU market pie from Nvidia, and I highly doubt that Intel will be any different. There being three players will just mean lower volumes for everybody, and coupled with how increasingly expensive it's getting for them to develop GPUs, I don't anticipate lower prices anytime soon.

This, a hundred times.

I will add one thing. GPUs have just 3-4 nodes left for them. That is the reality we face, guys.

 

[maddie]

This, a hundred times.

I will add one thing. GPUs have just 3-4 nodes left for them. That is the reality we face, guys.

I would think this is a lot worse for CPUs than GPUs. At least GPUs get to utilize massive parallel workloads. Horizontal chiplets might not be efficient, but aside from the heat flows (I know), vertical chiplet stacks can be very feasible from an architecture standpoint.

 

[Glo.]

I would think this is a lot worse for CPUs than GPUs. At least GPUs get to utilize massive parallel workloads. Horizontal chiplets might not be efficient, but aside from the heat flows (I know), vertical chiplet stacks can be very feasible from an architecture standpoint.

N7 is not efficient enough for anything big. This is the reason why AMD went with Chiplets for CPUs. And considering what they said about Vega II silicon, they expected it to be A LOT WORSE.

I cannot speak for smaller nodes because I haven't seen any data about them. But situation most likely will not be different.

Forest Norrod has touted that we might get ready for 1 kW Accelerators. 1000W products.

 

[coercitiv]

SUPER is rumored to launch in July and brings about increased shader count on top of whatever higher clocks. The 2060 SUPER in particular will run on 256bit mem interface and probably match vanilla RTX 2070 in performance if it also clocks a bit higher.

Oh Navi, what are they sending you into?!

 

[DrMrLordX]

1) Nobody will ever buy any video card priced at $450. No sales for Nvidia. No sales for AMD.... or

Too binary. Sales are just kinda low, historically speaking, with disappointing revenues. The 2070 is just to cover what few buyers can be convinced to fork over the cash. 1660Ti, 2080, and 2080Ti are NV's real money-makers in the consumer market. And maybe 1660 but that's questionable.

I've tried to explain it to you multiple times and you keep failing at understanding the above, so I'm not sure we'll get any further.

We ain't getting nowhere. I refuse to deal in hypotheticals that make it easier to defend a poor product price. Just watch how well it sells and then come back later and gloat if hundreds of thousands of units move at those MSPRs or higher. If not . . . weep for AMD.

So isn't ray tracing confirmed on the next XBox which would be Navi based in some way? So when exactly would AMD be slipping this feature into the PC product stack? Big Navi feature? 5700's aren't "real" Navi?

https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/9/1...box-hardware-specs-price-release-date-e3-2019

If Project Scarlet has that 12Tflop Navi in it, then it will have more graphics horsepower than the 5700XT. And people said Navi wasn't being developed for consoles . . .

GPU market need intel ASAP because both AMD and NV want only one thing: milking pc gamers nothing more.Competition dont work at all.

Intel will probably target the same ASPs and AMD and NV, with our luck. They love high profit margins. Why rock the boat?

Do products currently being sold on Newegg include the 25% tariff as well?

If those products have already entered the country, I suspect they won't be retroactively tariffed.

Oh Navi, what are they sending you into?!

Consoles. And uh, liquidation lots. Heh.

 

[fleshconsumed]

LOL I purchased RX480 in 2016. I waited for VEGA to see if it was a good buy, it wasn't, then I waited for NAVI to see if it would be a good buy, doesn't look like it, now I'm waiting to see what happens with existing 20xx prices/Super or potentially upcoming intel GPU in 2020. I think this might be the longest I haven't upgraded my videocard in a really long time. I'm a value buyer, if I see no value I don't buy. For comparison I purchased 5 AM4 CPUs in the past 2 years because there was tremendous value in that segment.

 

[DrMrLordX]

@fleshconsumed

If you are an AMD buyer, I feel for you. Honestly I would just get a used 1080 or 1080Ti and be done with it.

 

[fleshconsumed]

@fleshconsumed

If you are an AMD buyer, I feel for you. Honestly I would just get a used 1080 or 1080Ti and be done with it.

I don't really hold allegiances, but all things equal I do prefer to support an underdog (AMD), and I do like value. Ryzen delivered on both fronts, I got tremendous value for my money and I got to support an underdog in the game - I switched my 5 intel rigs to AM4. On the GPU side my last couple of cards have been GTX260c216 > 7970 > 290 > RX480, so primarily AMD. I would love to stay with AMD just to support them, but man they're making it exceptionally difficult. VEGA runs hot and loud, and NAVI is too expensive out of the gate. I've been checking out used VEGA 56's on ebay, but I only have 500W power supply so I'm hesitant to pull the trigger. I'm just happy I don't need a new videocard right now.

 

[DarthKyrie]

If those products have already entered the country, I suspect they won't be retroactively tariffed.

This right here is what I was going to say.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I don't really hold allegiances, but all things equal I do prefer to support an underdog (AMD), and I do like value. Ryzen delivered on both fronts,

NAVI is too expensive out of the gate.

I totally agree! I've bought nearly nothing but Ryzen CPUs and APUs the last two years (my most recent i5-9400F purchase was to buck the trend), because of the significant value it brought to the table. (Which, ironically, the $150 i5-9400F feels like Intel's "value CPU", at least at the moment.) I just don't quite see that with NAVI's current MSRPs. Hopefully, once NV slashes prices of their existing lineup, to make way for their "Super" line of cards, then NAVI's prices will get cut too, and then AMD will do some significant volume of them to boot, and everyone will be happy. (Well, at AMD.)

 

[Glo.]

LOL I purchased RX480 in 2016. I waited for VEGA to see if it was a good buy, it wasn't, then I waited for NAVI to see if it would be a good buy, doesn't look like it, now I'm waiting to see what happens with existing 20xx prices/Super or potentially upcoming intel GPU in 2020. I think this might be the longest I haven't upgraded my videocard in a really long time. I'm a value buyer, if I see no value I don't buy. For comparison I purchased 5 AM4 CPUs in the past 2 years because there was tremendous value in that segment.

In September we will have in sub 199$ price range the choice between small Navi GPU, or GTX 1660 Ti.

 

[Shivansps]

In September we will have in sub 199$ price range the choice between small Navi GPU, or GTX 1660 Ti.

So, they are going to replace the RX480 with the RX460? that what you are saying here?

Nvidia did what they wanted due to no competition, AMD no has excuses here.

 

[Glo.]

I was looking at process nodes, and first thing that is apparent is that we should not expect increases in clock speeds with smaller nodes. The bigger the dies, the less capability to clock higher.

The same goes for power draw: the bigger the dies, the lower power consumption savings.

We might be entering an era, where dGPUs are actually really doomed. It might be completely not good idea to design lots of different dies on smaller nodes, like Nvidia does, because the tradeoffs will be too big to.

Imagine a world where Titan X class SKU is 350 mm2 die, costs 999$, RTX 2080 die is 250 mm2, costs 500$, GTX 1060 die is 150 mm2, costs 300$, and GTX 1050 Ti die is 80 mm2, costs 150$. With the same power draw, as the SKUs compared...

That is reality we might be facing on smaller nodes.

Edit: Just has been posted lately: https://semiengineering.com/chips-becoming-noisier/

So, they are going to replace the RX480 with the RX460? that what you are saying here?

Nvidia did what they wanted due to no competition, AMD no has excuses here.

Small Navi might be faster than GTX 1660, yet still cheaper than GTX 1660 Ti.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Exactly. And as we know from mobile/Atom they are willing to take a loss at first to get market share.

I don't think they want to do this again. Remember, that was the strategy from the same CEO that also abandoned it 2 years after.

I agree with the opinions that they won't make it cheap. Best case scenario is Intel beats everyone else in performance for the same price, but the price won't go down.

 

[Glo.]

I agree with the opinions that they won't make it cheap. Best case scenario is Intel beats everyone else in performance for the same price, but the price won't go down.

I can easily see Intel pulling miracle and making GTX 1660 Ti performance class GPU that fits in 75-90W power draw scenario. What I cannot see is Intel pricing it below 200$ mark, if everybody else has similarly performing GPUs, at the same price, but consuming more power.

 

[IntelUser2000]

What I cannot see is Intel pricing it below 200$ mark, if everybody else has similarly performing GPUs, at the same price, but consuming more power.

Yes. They are not here to make similar performance, lowest cost GPUs. They'd want to reach the highest performance and be at same price.

Low prices don't make an impact. Good products do. Lower prices are just admitting defeat because the product is not competitive.

 

[Glo.]

Yes. They are not here to make similar performance, lowest cost GPUs. They'd want to reach the highest performance and be at same price.

Low prices don't make an impact. Good products do. Lower prices are just admitting defeat because the product is not competitive.

All companies are here to make money. In consumer GPUs there is no growth anymore. The only way they can make money is by going for Margins.

As tech and business enthusiast I can understand this. As a consumer - I can't.

 

[Head1985]

So, they are going to replace the RX480 with the RX460? that what you are saying here?

Nvidia did what they wanted due to no competition, AMD no has excuses here.

They shifted whole stack up one tier and doubled prices.
So rx480/470 replacement cost as vega and selling as high-end but we see only 10-15% performance uplift vs vega.
rx460/560 replacement will cost about same as 570/580 with again only small performance gain vs them.

 

[Glo.]

rx460/560 replacement will cost about same as 570/580 with again only small performance gain vs them.

I personally expect RX 460/560 replacement to be 75W TDP GPU with RX 580 performance for 130-150$ price tag. It will be cut down version of small Navi GPU.