[Rumor, Tweaktown] AMD to launch next-gen Navi graphics cards at E3

[IntelUser2000]

On TSMC 7 nm, Navi 10 gets 41.04 M/mm^2, which is 0.43 of theoretical density. It's more like 10 nm density.

Well 7nm cuts power by maybe 30% so.

 

[Glo.]

I don't get it. It makes me concerned on how NVIDIA will implement 7 nm.

For that we still have 8-10 months, before we will see any Nvidia GPUs on 7 nm process.

But pretty much: look at 10 bln transistor GPU from AMD on 7 nm process, and you will know what ALU count that GPU will have for Nvidia.

 

[DrMrLordX]

so the stock memory timings may have been pretty poor.

Vega64 never got much better though. Sure people could OC the things and get up to maybe 45 MH/s, but highest practical was in the 40-42 range. In any case, I don't expect Navi to just magically hit 60 MH/s out of the gate, or perhaps ever.

The potential is there when they do the same with GDDR6.

Maybe. Might never materialize since demand isn't exactly there anymore.

Skylake isn't a + though.

It sort of was. Intel had to do a lot of work on their 14nm process to get it to clock higher than it did for Broadwell. There were a few chips that OCed to 4.8 GHz, but most weren't even close. Skylake was consisently higher in clocks than Haswell.

 

[guachi]

$500 was terrible. $450 for ~5% more performance but less hardware features 9 months later doesn't make things better. This should have been a $379 product, given the past prices of 250mm2 chips and taking into account cost increases, etc.

Sure it makes things better. You get 5% more for 10% less. Maybe to you it isn't worth it. But if the 2070 isn't worth it then neither is the 2080 or 2080ti or Radeon VII or Vega or 590.

That basically leaves a 580, 2060, and a 570. (Going by the perf/$ at TPU and excluding 1000 series cards from nVidia).

If you game at 1080 I guess you have it made as you can buy a 570 and game at reasonable frame rates to your heart's content.

On the other hand, if you want to game at higher resolutions and you hate nVidia's pricing you have two choices - buy AMD or buy nothing.

 

[tviceman]

Sure it makes things better. You get 5% more for 10% less. Maybe to you it isn't worth it. But if the 2070 isn't worth it then neither is the 2080 or 2080ti or Radeon VII or Vega or 590.

That basically leaves a 580, 2060, and a 570. (Going by the perf/$ at TPU and excluding 1000 series cards from nVidia).

If you game at 1080 I guess you have it made as you can buy a 570 and game at reasonable frame rates to your heart's content.

On the other hand, if you want to game at higher resolutions and you hate nVidia's pricing you have two choices - buy AMD or buy nothing.

You can argue it from that point of view, or you can argue it from the point of view that 250mm2 chips have almost always come at the $250 price point, so AMD doubled down on Nvidia's Turing prices and raise the bar. Also, the fact that this is a 225w part doesn't bode well at all.

 

[tviceman]

Also that they are using a small chip to compete, I wonder what the relative CUDA only chip area is for RTX 2070 when scaled to 7nm.

If Nvidia were to shrink Turing chips, they'd get around a 33% reduction in die size and, if they were able to take advantage of 7nm node characteristics, could squeeze out an extra 25% performance at the same TDP. So Tu116 (RTX 2070) would be about 45mm2 larger, but would consume less power, perform about 20% better (based on AMD's slides), and still have all the RTX hardware set. That is assuming a straight shrink and no architectural improvements. I believe the RT and tensor cores add about 15-20% in die size.

 

[FiendishMind]

I believe the RT and tensor cores add about 15-20% in die size.

Actually it only adds like 8-10% to the die size.

 

[piesquared]

These are great cards. Everyone was suggesting that 5700 XT was going to fall behind the competing 2070, and that AMD's Strange Brigade benchmark was a best case scenario and that it was an AMD sponsored title. Turns out it wasn't the best case scenario after all. RDNA appears to be an excellent architecture to build off just like Zen/Zen2/Zen3 etc. The Navi 10 is 56% the die size of it's competition and faster. They actually look great too, sleek with a quality shroud and the cooling apparantely works very well also. Beating expectations seems to be becoming a habit with AMD. And again the perf/$ leader, across the board now. Nvidia should drop prices, they'll likely just continue to gouge their customers but we'll see.

 

[beginner99]

They are not cheap option anymore.

AMD can't understand how much those prices will hurt their sales and overall profit levels.

Exactly. With these prices I predict a further decline in market share and a surge in NV sales. Anybody that waited will buy NV now or wait till nv adjust prices with their "super" version rumor. For me RTX cards have the added bonus to play around with deeplearning.

Its crazy how bad GPU market/prices are now.Its 100% DUOPOLY nothing more.

Yeah. When I bought a new display about 2.5 years ago, I decided to still go for 1080p because GPU prices were already rising and I fully expected it to continue. With 1080p display, one can mostly dodge this situation. it's not that bad.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Vega64 never got much better though.

Vega 64 didn't get 40MH/s stock though. Simple search shows 34MH/s. That suggests to me on the VII, AMD set the timings much tighter out of the box.

It sort of was. Intel had to do a lot of work on their 14nm process to get it to clock higher than it did for Broadwell.

PCWatch's Hiroshige Goto(who I put in high regard) speculated there was a possibility Intel had to rearchitect Skylake to account for the problems they were having on the 14nm process to reach higher clocks.

But officially, Skylake was 14nm with no + after it.

 

[Dribble]

Not the revolution AMD need but at least it's not just polaris at 7nm, but it's hardly next gen either - still way behind on features, uses far too much power. I am sure like the 570/580 if they drop the prices a bit they'll get some sales, and they are enough to scare Nvidia into a response which I guess is what this "Super" stuff is going to be.

 

[Timorous]

Be interesting to see how the RTX2070 and the vanilla 5700 compare at the same clock speeds considering they have the same number of shaders, same ROPS, same TMUs etc.

 

[Leadbox]

So no mention of the anti lag or image fidelity features which in my opine are infinitely much better features than DLSS(only to be seen on FF demo??), RT which is a waste this generation. Still the usual suspects will continue harping on about "less features"

 

[exquisitechar]

If Nvidia were to shrink Turing chips, they'd get around a 33% reduction in die size and, if they were able to take advantage of 7nm node characteristics, could squeeze out an extra 25% performance at the same TDP. So Tu116 (RTX 2070) would be about 45mm2 larger, but would consume less power, perform about 20% better (based on AMD's slides), and still have all the RTX hardware set. That is assuming a straight shrink and no architectural improvements. I believe the RT and tensor cores add about 15-20% in die size.

I highly doubt that nV would get a 25% uplift from 7nm alone with a die shrunk 2070 at the same TDP.

 

[BFG10K]

It's good to finally see 64 ROPs in AMD's cards.

 

[Paul98]

That Anti Lag feature for when you are GPU limited looked interesting, I will be interested to how it feels when it's on vs off.

 

[guachi]

Exactly. With these prices I predict a further decline in market share and a surge in NV sales. Anybody that waited will buy NV now or wait till nv adjust prices with their "super" version rumor.

This makes no sense. Why would I buy an nVidia card now that is 5% slower and 10% more expensive than the AMD card I can get in a month?

If the nVidia card was a bad deal before Navi's prices were released it's still a bad deal now after the prices are released.

 

[guachi]

That Anti Lag feature for when you are GPU limited looked interesting, I will be interested to how it feels when it's on vs off.

I think this is a better feature than the sharpening "feature", which I don't consider a feature at all. Maybe it's because I am a fan of blu-rays and discs and TVs that do too much edge-sharpening are routinely lambasted.

The anti-lag looks really interesting, though.

 

[Kenmitch]

I think this is a better feature than the sharpening "feature", which I don't consider a feature at all. Maybe it's because I am a fan of blu-rays and discs and TVs that do too much edge-sharpening are routinely lambasted.

The anti-lag looks really interesting, though.

I was watching the presentation on my phone as it was somewhat slow at work. I didn't really see much of a difference on the sharpening, but it's a free ride as far as performance goes.

The anti-lag feature does look like it would be more of a benefit as long as it really does what it says.

The official reviews should be interesting once they drop. Was there any mention of when the NDA is being lifted?

 

[Stuka87]

I was watching the presentation on my phone as it was somewhat slow at work. I didn't really see much of a difference on the sharpening, but it's a free ride as far as performance goes.

The anti-lag feature does look like it would be more of a benefit as long as it really does what it says.

The official reviews should be interesting once they drop. Was there any mention of when the NDA is being lifted?

On stream running at source res the difference was definitely there.

Not sure on NDA, my guess is a few days before they go for sale.

 

[maddie]

So, what about any other Radeon designs. I have some people more interested in US$200 models.

Is AMD abandoning the main mass market?
Need to clear Polaris models first?
Spreading the market attention over longer time period?

Don't exist?

 

[exquisitechar]

So, what about any other Radeon designs. I have some people more interested in US$200 models.

Is AMD abandoning the main mass market?
Need to clear Polaris models first?
Spreading the market attention over longer time period?

Don't exist?

A 20 CU die is coming later. Probably won't be $200, though.

 

[railven]

I think this is a better feature than the sharpening "feature", which I don't consider a feature at all. Maybe it's because I am a fan of blu-rays and discs and TVs that do too much edge-sharpening are routinely lambasted.

No kidding. During the HD-Format Wars, Toshiba was trying to push their Super Upscaler hardware or whatever it was called. It sharpened images out of their mind! Toshiba would have loved to have AMD/Nvidia tossing support for the "upscale EVERYTHING" they might have won!

RIP Native resolutions. Thanks to YouTube/Netflix and now Stadia, 720p upscaled to 4K and beyond will become the normal

 

[AtenRa]

Because of those prices right now I will not even consider upgrading my CPU to Ryzen 3.

I will keep my Core i7 3770K and RX480 8GB until the next consoles from Sony and MS are out and completely stop being a PC gamer.

Thank you AMD, Intel and NVIDIA for turning me from a PC, OC Enthusiast to a console gamer.

I will not participate in this fixed price CPUs, Motheboards, Memory and GPUs charade any more.

 

[railven]

Because of those prices right now I will not even consider upgrading my CPU to Ryzen 3.

I will keep my Core i7 3770K and RX480 8GB until the next consoles from Sony and MS are out and completely stop being a PC gamer.

Thank you AMD, Intel and NVIDIA for turning me from a PC, OC Enthusiast to a console gamer.

I will not participate in this fixed price CPUs, Motheboards, Memory and GPUs charade any more.

You'll be back! Unless you have kids, fixed income, or back problems - PC gaming no matter the cost will always be better!

(You know you don't have to run out and buy every shiny new piece. As I get older and my back hurts more I find myself less interested in working on my rig. Better to just get some OP parts and sail the lazy river of innovation until something truly generational pops up.)