[Rumor, Tweaktown] AMD to launch next-gen Navi graphics cards at E3

[Ajay]

I kinda of feel like Navi is the GPU equivalent of Ryzen 1. New uArch, fixes some of CGN's weaknesses (a little bit short on new features like VRS). Will stack up well against some NV cards, but falls short of being a 'halo' card. Like Ryzen 1, Navi should be priced lower, IMO, to build up the brand in the minds of consumers - and hence drive more developer support for RDNA. I think AMD made a mistake here. They may not have had a choice here (7nm design costs, yields, production capacity, etc).

In any case, the proof, in sales numbers (q3 and q4) will tell us whether AMD's gambit will be a success or not. Every other prognostication, including mine, is essentially mute at this point in time).

 

[mattiasnyc]

If people are crapping all over Navi for being underwhelming, as an architecture, then it would also be wise to remember that neither Sony nor Microsoft would pick a crappy architecture for their consoles which will sell in the 100's of millions of units. Just wouldn't happen. Clearly AMD is doing something right.

 

[DarthKyrie]

I kinda of feel like Navi is the GPU equivalent of Ryzen 1. New uArch, fixes some of CGN's weaknesses (a little bit short on new features like VRS). Will stack up well against some NV cards, but falls short of being a 'halo' card. Like Ryzen 1, Navi should be priced lower, IMO, to build up the brand in the minds of consumers - and hence drive more developer support for RDNA. I think AMD made a mistake here. They may not have had a choice here (7nm design costs, yields, production capacity, etc).

In any case, the proof, in sales numbers (q3 and q4) will tell us whether AMD's gambit will be a success or not. Every other prognostication, including mine, is essentially mute at this point in time).

There is going to be plenty of developer support for RDNA it's in the PS5 and Project Scarlett after all. AMD is smart to monetize their work with MS and Sony on Navi, the only thing it costs AMD to put out a product is mask cost and board design, all R&D has been paid for by MS and Sony.

If people are crapping all over Navi for being underwhelming, as an architecture, then it would also be wise to remember that neither Sony nor Microsoft would pick a crappy architecture for their consoles which will sell in the 100's of millions of units. Just wouldn't happen. Clearly AMD is doing something right.

People seem to forget about this for some reason which is very odd seeing as consoles are the majority and what most games are designed for.

 

[Auer]

If people are crapping all over Navi for being underwhelming, as an architecture, then it would also be wise to remember that neither Sony nor Microsoft would pick a crappy architecture for their consoles which will sell in the 100's of millions of units. Just wouldn't happen. Clearly AMD is doing something right.

Sony and Microsoft will buy from who ever can meet their spec at the lowest price. That's all. Doesnt make Navi arch crappy or great.

 

[DarthKyrie]

Sony and Microsoft will buy from who ever can meet their spec at the lowest price. That's all. Doesnt make Navi arch crappy or great.

Who else allows their customers to customize their product and provide all in one packaging of an x86 CPU and a GPU?

 

[Auer]

Who else allows their customers to customize their product and provide all in one packaging of an x86 CPU and a GPU?

Point is, AMD met their customers spec and prize regardless of how great or not so great the arch is.
So that connection with Sony and Microsoft doesnt guarantee greatness for Navi Arch.

 

[piesquared]

There is a high possibility of a $50 cut in a few months in time for holiday season, so those with some amount of patience can always wait and get the 5700 for around $330-350. Probably some game bundle as well. Not bad. Although still not good for consumers who wanted a well priced card right out of the gate. AMD is basically asking people who waited for Navi to wait even more until its at a decent price, at this point surely the patience of AMD fans must be running out...

.....and they will do what, go buy a more expensive card with lower performance from the competition? As an 'AMD fan', i think the prices are fine and view it as nvidia that needs to lower their prices.

 

[mohit9206]

.....and they will do what, go buy a more expensive card with lower performance from the competition? As an 'AMD fan', i think the prices are fine and view it as nvidia that needs to lower their prices.

I think in this situation the person who cares about good value for money especially one who was waiting on Navi would probably go for either a used or new last gen card similar to how people went for 1080ti when Nvidia priced out gamers with their RTX cards.

 

[guachi]

AMD is basically asking people who waited for Navi to wait even more until its at a decent price, at this point surely the patience of AMD fans must be running out...

Surely fans of nVidia have *already* run out of patience waiting for the cards at a decent price. They've been out how long already? They sell a "high end" 2080 with only 8GB of VRAM? the 2080Ti costs how much?

How does nVidia still have *any* brand cachet?

 

[piesquared]

I think in this situation the person who cares about good value for money especially one who was waiting on Navi would probably go for either a used or new last gen card similar to how people went for 1080ti when Nvidia priced out gamers with their RTX cards.

That's possible for those wanting buy a lower tier card. For those wanting to buy the highest performing and performing/$ card in the $350-$500 range, it is the 5700 and 5700XT.

 

[Hans Gruber]

.....and they will do what, go buy a more expensive card with lower performance from the competition? As an 'AMD fan', i think the prices are fine and view it as nvidia that needs to lower their prices.

Fortunately Nvidia is a publicly traded company and the investors care about the bottom line and not your personal opinion.

 

[piesquared]

Fortunately Nvidia is a publicly traded company and the investors care about the bottom line and not your personal opinion.

Nor yours? lol Does your butt hurt?

 

[tviceman]

If people are crapping all over Navi for being underwhelming, as an architecture, then it would also be wise to remember that neither Sony nor Microsoft would pick a crappy architecture for their consoles which will sell in the 100's of millions of units. Just wouldn't happen. Clearly AMD is doing something right.

While there is nothing wrong with AMD's solutions (other than their GPU parts not being efficient vs. the competition), clearly you don't entirely understand the economics of choice. Sony and Microsoft can go with a custom ARM design - which would be vastly under-powered given there is no such thing as 100+ watt ARM chips, a two-chip Intel / Nvidia design - which would be prohibitively expensive in the era of extreme capitalism and bottom dollars, or they can go with a single chip solution from AMD that can hit 150-200w and deliver the performance necessary for current / next generation solutions, remain backwards compatible with existing solutions, and make cross-portability easy.

Just like how Nintendo went with Nvidia for a mobile solution - AMD and Intel simply cannot compete in GPU performance with that little of a power envelope. Apple could, but Apple won't sell to anyone.

 

[Auer]

That's possible for those wanting buy a lower tier card. For those wanting to buy the highest performing and performing/$ card in the $350-$500 range, it is the 5700 and 5700XT.

Or you bought a RTX 2070 half a year ago (GASP!) and are still happily gaming along until NV 7nm shows up.

 

[Ajay]

There is going to be plenty of developer support for RDNA it's in the PS5 and Project Scarlett after all. AMD is smart to monetize their work with MS and Sony on Navi, the only thing it costs AMD to put out a product is mask cost and board design, all R&D has been paid for by MS and Sony.

Navi (5700/XT) is a PC AIB, optimizing for Console games is almost totally unrelated. This stupid point gets brought up time and time again as some freaking magic bullet - it’s not!

Edit: sorry if that seems harsh.

 

[DrMrLordX]

If people are crapping all over Navi for being underwhelming, as an architecture, then it would also be wise to remember that neither Sony nor Microsoft would pick a crappy architecture for their consoles which will sell in the 100's of millions of units. Just wouldn't happen. Clearly AMD is doing something right.

The uarch is fine. MS and Sony are more-than-happy to use it. Apparently you can get a Navi faster than the 5700XT inside an Xbox variant next year for $500. How's that for value? Navi should be a roaring success in consoles.

 

[DarthKyrie]

Navi (5700/XT) is a PC AIB, optimizing for Console games is almost totally unrelated. This stupid point gets brought up time and time again as some freaking magic bullet - it’s not!

Edit: sorry if that seems harsh.

No harshness detected.

 

[mattiasnyc]

Sony and Microsoft will buy from who ever can meet their spec at the lowest price. That's all. Doesnt make Navi arch crappy or great.

I didn't say it made it crappy or great, that wasn't the point. The point was that they wouldn't choose a crappy GPU. Since Navi was chosen it means;

Navi is not a crappy GPU... (not "Navi is great").

 

[mattiasnyc]

While there is nothing wrong with AMD's solutions (other than their GPU parts not being efficient vs. the competition), clearly you don't entirely understand the economics of choice. Sony and Microsoft can go with a custom ARM design - which would be vastly under-powered given there is no such thing as 100+ watt ARM chips, a two-chip Intel / Nvidia design - which would be prohibitively expensive in the era of extreme capitalism and bottom dollars, or they can go with a single chip solution from AMD that can hit 150-200w and deliver the performance necessary for current / next generation solutions, remain backwards compatible with existing solutions, and make cross-portability easy.

Just like how Nintendo went with Nvidia for a mobile solution - AMD and Intel simply cannot compete in GPU performance with that little of a power envelope. Apple could, but Apple won't sell to anyone.

And in what way does the above change that them choosing Navi shows it isn't a crappy GPU?

 

[piesquared]

Or you bought a RTX 2070 half a year ago (GASP!) and are still happily gaming along until NV 7nm shows up.

And? Nobody is suggesting that somebody with a 2070 upgrade to a 5700XT. It's not complicated, if you are looking to buy a card in the $350-$500 range Today then the 5700 or 5700XT is the best card on the market. There are those that will look at AMD's open ecosystem (Freesync, Freesync 2, no email sign up for features, etc) as a factor in the decision as well.

 

[sandorski]

And? Nobody is suggesting that somebody with a 2070 upgrade to a 5700XT. It's not complicated, if you are looking to buy a card in the $350-$500 range Today then the 5700 or 5700XT is the best card on the market. There are those that will look at AMD's open ecosystem (Freesync, Freesync 2, no email sign up for features, etc) as a factor in the decision as well.

Best is always arguable. It is a legit competitor, especially as you point out with the Freesync ecosystem.

 

[piesquared]

Best is always arguable. It is a legit competitor, especially as you point out with the Freesync ecosystem.

That term is pretty vague alright. I'll say best performance and best performance/$.

 

[swilli89]

If people are crapping all over Navi for being underwhelming, as an architecture, then it would also be wise to remember that neither Sony nor Microsoft would pick a crappy architecture for their consoles which will sell in the 100's of millions of units. Just wouldn't happen. Clearly AMD is doing something right.

Navi looks to be an amazing architecture.

Its nice because since Vega was released on 7nm we can compare Vega to Navi on the same process. Vega 20 is 331 mm², and Navi 10 is 251 mm². That makes Vega 32% larger, yet from what we know performance will be very close. Geforce 2070 (TU106 ) is 445 mm². TU106 is 77% larger and performance, we are led to believe, is ever so slightly behind Navi 10. Let's call them equal in performance. So yes, NVIDIA has yet to use its node-jump, they are also on their brand new architecture Turing, which I doubt will get changed much due to the sudden important of RTX.

Far and away the most important caveat here is that we are comparing TSMC's 12nm to their 7nm process. NVIDIA will be hopping over to Samsung's 7nm not because of performance or density scaling, but cost - as reported by multiple sources.

AMD's midrange 241 mm² Navi 10 die equaling NVIDIA's 445 mm² die means that NVIDIA will at best match them if they are able to take full advantage of 7nm. Navi looks to be an excellent architecture.

 

[Thala]

AMD's midrange 241 mm² Navi 10 die equaling NVIDIA's 445 mm² die means that NVIDIA will at best match them if they are able to take full advantage of 7nm. Navi looks to be an excellent architecture.

Not want to pour rain on your parade. But a 7nm TU106 should be about similar sized, while allocating 20% gates to RT and Tensor and being much more power efficient. So Navi is nowhere near as good as Turing architecture wise - not even close.

 

[itsmydamnation]

20% gates my arse..........
maybe 20% of the SM, not that i have seen a real die shot but traditionally ALU's make up ~1/3 of a GPU.