[Rumor (Various)] AMD R7/9 3xx / Fiji / Fury

[stag3]

when are these even coming out?
if i could find a 980ti, i'd probably pick one of those up right now

seems we keep "waiting" for the new ati cards to come out to decide if we should pick up a 290x or wait for the 390x now

 

[Headfoot]

The most important price is yet to be disclosed: Fury Pro

 

[Azix]

Its not easy when you are out of R&D resources. I do wonder why they went to spend the remaining on a halo card rather than a refresh of something like Pitcairn and possible one more lower end GPU.

One thing is certain, the train departed for good.

here it is again. The moon is falling, head for the caves. the land is flooding head for the cliffs. Lets build an ark.

R&D numbers

https://ycharts.com/companies/AMD/r_and_d_expense

https://ycharts.com/companies/NVDA/r_and_d_expense

The real problem is that they are involved in CPUs, GPUs and APUs requiring lots of money. Their GPU business is most likely the healthiest, so why would they drop that?

 

[shady28]

Why does it need to not have that?

It's the use case.

Here is essentially how the market breaks down -

1 - Users with mediocre retail desktops that have low power PSUs (mostly generic off the shelf brands) or SFF/ITX type systems with no 6pin connector. These are mostly 250-400W PSUs. ATX specs require the mobo to be able to supply 75W, so a sub 75W card fits any PCI-e system. This use case is easily the majority of the buying public. This is where the 750 Ti and under fit, along with the R7 250X and lower. Nvidia owns this category if you want the most powerful card that will fit, and price differences are minor.

2 - Users with midrange systems / off the shelf enthusiast systems. These would be higher end off the shelf boxes and a good percentage of custom builds. These typically have 400-500W PSUs and support a single 6-pin aka 75->150W GPUs. This is the realm of the R9 270, R7 265, GTX 960, and extreme overclocked variants of the 750Ti. Performance wise, Nvidia owns this and price differences are minor.

3 - Custom build systems with high end power. These would be 500-650W PSUs with dual 6-pins and possibly 1 6-pin + 1 8-pin. These can support up to 250W GPUs. This is where your R9 290/290X and GTX 970 / 980 fits. AMD wins this on price/performance but on pure performance Nvidia wins.

4 - Ultra high end custom systems. These would have 650W+ PSUs that can run dual / SLI or more GPUs. This is where the R9 295X2 and SLI rigs fit, along with the GTX 980 Ti. Same as above, Nvidia wins on pure performance though in SLI cases AMD wins on price/performance.


AMDs current lineup puts them at a disadvantage in terms of performance for all of those use cases. The one area they an advantage is in price with the 3rd and 4th use cases, with the R9 290/290X/295X2.

But the number of users who will buy a card in any use case shrinks massively as you go down the line. Once you get past the 2nd use case, there are very few people buying. And yes we're all quite aware that you can upgrade the PSU. And what % of people do that? Not a large percentage.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

On the "R7 370" -

From the article :

"...it does seem Radeon R7 370 has one 6pin power connector"

This means its use case is the same as the older GTX 660 and newer GTX 960. ie, 75-150W single 6-pin 400W-500W systems.

They are trying to compare it to the 750 Ti, which is a sub 75W no 6-pin card.

With a mere 20% boost vs the 750Ti, this card is filling a price / performance gap between the 750 Ti and the 960 where Nvidia doesn't really have a presence. Same slot that the R7 265 used to fill. In fact, it's probably an R7 265 re-badge with a new cooler.

AMD really needs something to match or beat the 750Ti without a 6-pin to be newsworthy.

I expect amd to put out an apu with hbm and render the entry level GPU market obsolete.

Especially if their new CPU cores are improved.

 

[Azix]

That first market is the domain of iGPUs and office computers that don't need a 750 ti. But I guess nothing stops nvidia from getting OEMs to drop them in anyway. Money is money.

Beyond that, assuming the power assumptions are correct, the single PCI-e solution is fine and 20% performance gain is great. By including the $250 960 in that second market you are ignoring price. the r7 370 is priced around a 750 ti with better performance. Seems fine to me.

I still don't understand why people think these OEM systems have bad power supplies. any 300-400 W would be enough and all that would be needed is 12V to PCI-e if there was no PCI-e (even cheapo PSUs have that now). But meh. For a budget PC gaming computer pre-built by OEM the 750 ti is no longer the right choice.

 

[tential]

Maybe we're reading different rumor sites but Hawaii XT is at $389 msrp. I don't believe we've seen fiji pricing as of yet so I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion?

Some people had previously thought Hawaii xt would be 500 or around that based off early rumors. It's even mentioned in the op.

The fact people thought Hawaii xt would have an msrp of 500 is hilarious. Even better is that people are quoting this msrp as if it's a bad deal and cards won't go lower. It's msrp, amd cards are almost always competitively priced so I think it's not going to be bad. Curious to see if 8gb of vram matters at all vs the gtx 980 or if it's a marketing point.

Also curious to see if there are any differences or if it's a straight rebrand.

 

[ShintaiDK]

The real problem is that they are involved in CPUs, GPUs and APUs requiring lots of money. Their GPU business is most likely the healthiest, so why would they drop that?

AMD is a CPU company before a GPU company. That was also the worry back when they bought ATI. And this is the result today.

And in relation to your links:
https://media.ycharts.com/charts/6dabd2cd53949da26b62f6b4df087f0a.png

 

[Azix]

AMD is a CPU company before a GPU company. That was also the worry back when they bought ATI. And this is the result today.

And in relation to your links:
https://media.ycharts.com/charts/6dabd2cd53949da26b62f6b4df087f0a.png

Doesn't matter what you are if you buy the capability. They sure haven't sucked at making GPUs.

Their R&D will probably spike a bit for Zen. Hope its good. They haven't had much going on for CPUs in too long. If you want to doom and gloom go to CPUs

 

[Rvenger]

No we are not discussing financials in this thread. This is not a doom and gloom thread either. If it continues I will be going straight to vacations and I already can see two members above me on that list.



-Rvenger

 

[shady28]

That first market is the domain of iGPUs and office computers that don't need a 750 ti. But I guess nothing stops nvidia from getting OEMs to drop them in anyway. Money is money.

Beyond that, assuming the power assumptions are correct, the single PCI-e solution is fine and 20% performance gain is great. By including the $250 960 in that second market you are ignoring price. the r7 370 is priced around a 750 ti with better performance. Seems fine to me.

I still don't understand why people think these OEM systems have bad power supplies. any 300-400 W would be enough and all that would be needed is 12V to PCI-e if there was no PCI-e (even cheapo PSUs have that now). But meh. For a budget PC gaming computer pre-built by OEM the 750 ti is no longer the right choice.

The first one is probably 90%+ of what is sold at Best Buy, Frys, Walmart, Target, Sears, etc etc. They typically do not come with a discrete GPU. These days, many of them are SFF or lower. GPUs are bought separately.

The 2nd one is easily the largest group of 'enthusiast' class machines.

ie, For HP -

This is type 1 :

http://store.hp.com/us/en/mdp/desktops/envy-desktop#!&TabName=features

This is type 2 :

http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/desktops/hp-envy-phoenix-desktop---810-470#!&TabName=specs


And something not even mentioned is the large and growing segment that AIBs cant sell to at all. If they have a dGPU, it's already built in :

That would be these :

http://store.hp.com/us/en/mdp/desktops/envy-beats-all-in-one-204032--1#TabName=features

http://store.hp.com/us/en/mdp/desktops/envy-recline-all-in-one#TabName=features

http://store.hp.com/us/en/mdp/desktops/sprout-by-hp-204036--1#TabName=features

 

[boozzer]

when are these even coming out?
if i could find a 980ti, i'd probably pick one of those up right now

seems we keep "waiting" for the new ati cards to come out to decide if we should pick up a 290x or wait for the 390x now

everything points towards a E3 soft launch with a hard launch 1 week later. I am just glad all these rumors would be put to rest.

we will all have all the info we need ^_^

 

[beginner99]

even at $389 the R9 390x can't be a rebranded Hawaii with a slight clock boost and 8 GB. It will just fail in the market horribly. Hawaii doesn't even need 8 GB. It's too slow anyway for 4K. AMD would better save the $ for that and sell it cheaper.

 

[boozzer]

even at $389 the R9 390x can't be a rebranded Hawaii with a slight clock boost and 8 GB. It will just fail in the market horribly. Hawaii doesn't even need 8 GB. It's too slow anyway for 4K. AMD would better save the $ for that and sell it cheaper.

I am pretty confident that it will be a respin + tweak. other wise amd might just as well close up shop and leave the gpu market.

anyone who says other wise are hoping for amd to die. which is kinda weird if they are a pc gamer and stands to lose everything as a pc gamer if amd dies. :twisted::awe::hmm:

 

[Creig]

even at $389 the R9 390x can't be a rebranded Hawaii with a slight clock boost and 8 GB. It will just fail in the market horribly.

Why? If it is indeed $389, it would be $100 cheaper than a 980, have twice the RAM of a 980 and would have nearly the same performance. Where's the downside? Close in performance, cheaper and with more memory. Sounds like a good deal. Oh, and it should be DX12 compatible as well.

Hawaii doesn't even need 8 GB. It's too slow anyway for 4K. AMD would better save the $ for that and sell it cheaper.

?? It's already nearly as fast as a 980 at 4K. And we don't know yet if the 390X is going to have the exact same GPU as the 290X or if it's been enhanced. Personally, I suspect enhanced but we'll have to wait for either a solid leak or launch day to know for sure.

 

[Stuka87]

even at $389 the R9 390x can't be a rebranded Hawaii with a slight clock boost and 8 GB. It will just fail in the market horribly. Hawaii doesn't even need 8 GB. It's too slow anyway for 4K. AMD would better save the $ for that and sell it cheaper.

Many rumors have stated that the 390/390X is not Hawaii, but instead is Grenada.

It is stated in this rumor post on WCCF:

The XFX Radeon R9 390X Double Dissipation comes with the Grenada (Hawaii) core which packs 2816 stream processors, 176 texture mapping units and 64 ROPs. The card comes with 8 GB of GDDR5 VRAM which is clocked at 6 GHz as opposed to 5 GHz on the Radeon R9 290X. The memory operates along a 512-bit interface and pumps out 384 GB/s bandwidth.

Read more: http://wccftech.com/xfx-radeon-r9-3...pu-core-2816-stream-processors/#ixzz3cV0WKhEo

EDIT: I still feel the pricing that they are talking about is high.

 

[SlowSpyder]

even at $389 the R9 390x can't be a rebranded Hawaii with a slight clock boost and 8 GB. It will just fail in the market horribly. Hawaii doesn't even need 8 GB. It's too slow anyway for 4K. AMD would better save the $ for that and sell it cheaper.

Sure, it probably isn't powerful enough to use 8GB. But it probably will be advantageous to have for future games with settings I use that may require 4.5GB or 5GB, etc. Especially for the 1440P and up crowd.

 

[beginner99]

Many rumors have stated that the 390/390X is not Hawaii, but instead is Grenada.

It is stated in this rumor post on WCCF:


EDIT: I still feel the pricing that they are talking about is high.

Yeah I know. That's what i was alluding to. It must be more than a rebrand at that price. 290x isn't selling well at around $300 so why should a simple rebrand with higher clock and 8 GB sell for $389?

Personally I hope it's improved Hawaii from GF. hence about 20% better performance at lower TDP. Then it does make sense. So even then the 4 GB is overkill and selling it for $50 less would be preferable but then I do not know how much that RAM actually costs.

 

[shady28]

Many rumors have stated that the 390/390X is not Hawaii, but instead is Grenada.

It is stated in this rumor post on WCCF:


EDIT: I still feel the pricing that they are talking about is high.

GDDR5 isn't cheap. The PS4s 8GB was supposedly $80-$105 in volume. So going from 4GB to 8GB should command a ~$50 premium with no additional profit margin built in.

It's also MSRP, and these cards won't go for MSRP. Low prices for the R9 290X 4GB seem to be hovering at $310-$320, so saying the R9 290X 8GB will be $389 isn't much off the current mark.

 

[Vesku]

GDDR5 isn't cheap. The PS4s 8GB was supposedly $80-$105 in volume. So going from 4GB to 8GB should command a ~$50 premium with no additional profit margin built in.

It's also MSRP, and these cards won't go for MSRP. Low prices for the R9 290X 4GB seem to be hovering at $310-$320, so saying the R9 290X 8GB will be $389 isn't much off the current mark.

Setting an MSRP that you know retailers will be forced to discount immediately is not a good sales strategy. Not only that, reviewers will rip the 390(X) apart if it doesn't have something other than 4GB more RAM and "after market" clocks over the 290(X). Only silver lining for AMD in such a scenario is it will probably help to move the rest of their current 290(X) inventory. Won't be long now to see whether they plan to ride Fiji's coattails straight into the node shrink or actually have some interesting cards in the 300 series.

 

[Stuka87]

Setting an MSRP that you know retailers will be forced to discount immediately is not a good sales strategy. Not only that, reviewers will rip the 390(X) apart if it doesn't have something other than 4GB more RAM and "after market" clocks over the 290(X). Only silver lining for AMD in such a scenario is it will probably help to move the rest of their current 290(X) inventory. Won't be long now to see whether they plan to ride Fiji's coattails straight into the node shrink or actually have some interesting cards in the 300 series.

If Grenada is indeed built at GloFlo, then it is possible power consumption should be down, or power consumption will be the same but with higher clocks to fill the difference. I have been seeing the 20% more efficient number being thrown around for TSMC vs GloFlo (In GloFlo's favor). Just not sure where that number came from.

 

[tential]

Why? If it is indeed $389, it would be $100 cheaper than a 980, have twice the RAM of a 980 and would have nearly the same performance. Where's the downside? Close in performance, cheaper and with more memory. Sounds like a good deal. Oh, and it should be DX12 compatible as well.


?? It's already nearly as fast as a 980 at 4K. And we don't know yet if the 390X is going to have the exact same GPU as the 290X or if it's been enhanced. Personally, I suspect enhanced but we'll have to wait for either a solid leak or launch day to know for sure.

I think even with 0 improvements at that price it will do ok on the market. The largest issue would be power consumption.

If it's tweaked at that price? I think it's the easy buy over the 980. Granted the 980 is a joke vs the 290x even at $500 for the 980.

Really it's amazing how strong the 290/x are as they still are close to the 980/970 and the 980/970s actual competitors come out next week.
Really the only place amd is lacking for me is the high end and they're about to address that.

 

[exar333]

If Grenada is indeed built at GloFlo, then it is possible power consumption should be down, or power consumption will be the same but with higher clocks to fill the difference. I have been seeing the 20% more efficient number being thrown around for TSMC vs GloFlo (In GloFlo's favor). Just not sure where that number came from.

It is still going to be tough to swallow anything over $300 for the 390 vanilla IMHO. With current prices close to $220 AR, almost a hundred more for extra RAM and bumped clocks seems crazy. As others have said, these are rumored street prices, but still. I think $299 is more reasonable for the 290.

Edit: AMD's current prices definitely make this new gen a challenge. Will be interesting to see how these land...

 

[sm625]

2 - Users with midrange systems / off the shelf enthusiast systems. These would be higher end off the shelf boxes and a good percentage of custom builds. These typically have 400-500W PSUs and support a single 6-pin aka 75->150W GPUs. This is the realm of the R9 270, R7 265, GTX 960, and extreme overclocked variants of the 750Ti. Performance wise, Nvidia owns this and price differences are minor.

Smoke what?

 

[shady28]

Setting an MSRP that you know retailers will be forced to discount immediately is not a good sales strategy. Not only that, reviewers will rip the 390(X) apart if it doesn't have something other than 4GB more RAM and "after market" clocks over the 290(X). Only silver lining for AMD in such a scenario is it will probably help to move the rest of their current 290(X) inventory. Won't be long now to see whether they plan to ride Fiji's coattails straight into the node shrink or actually have some interesting cards in the 300 series.

I agree with you, but the pricing goes in line with what we're seeing on the R9 290X.

The only real question is what the "Grenada" tweak to Hawaii means.

It is always possible that it will be much more than the 2-5% I think people are suspecting. Sometimes 'tweaks' can result in substantial gains. 10-20% performance boost with 10-20% reduction in power would make it a contender. It's well within AMDs skill set to include the texture compression that was intro'd with Tonga, increase the number of front end geometry units like Tonga, or add HEVC decode. Any of those would result in something truly different.

If the main "feature" here is 8GB, well that's just marketing IMO. Very few cases where that is useful.