[Rumor (Various)] AMD R7/9 3xx / Fiji / Fury

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Fire&Blood

Platinum Member
Jan 13, 2009
2,331
16
81
On paper specs, Titan X has 3.3X more pixel shading power in games over a 925mhz HD7970, but its performance is about 2.13X faster at 1440P. We can't compare NV vs. AMD ROPs like that.



Tonga has 40% higher memory bandwidth efficiency, which means if Fiji has the same tech, its 512GB/sec is equivalent to 717GB/sec on a 290X, which is more than double.



HD7870 launch:

580 is 3% faster at 1080P with AA @ Computerbase

Today,

7870/R9 270X is 30% faster than the 580 at 1080P with AA @ Computerbase

You remember I had an amazing 7950 and while the 970 which I upgraded to now occupies that price range there is no chance that 970, or any other NV card for that matter provides such value over time. Then there was the bitcoin too, I'll probably never own a GPU like the 7950, most 7xxx cards were like that.

I see them now go for $120 on forums, one 7950 still has a decent grip on 1080p, two for less than $250 offer more punch than pricier alternatives.

I could never expect a NV card to hold up like that longer than 2 years because of the TI syndrome. Here is a quote from a AT article, I removed the gen #'s just to prove a point:

First and foremost, both GeForce GTX X80 and GeForce GTX X70 are getting price cuts, effective tomorrow (October 29th). GTX X80 will be reduced by $150 to $499, and meanwhile GTX X70 will be getting smaller $70 trim, bringing the price of that card down to $329.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7465/...-gtx-780770-price-cuts-gtx-780-ti-launch-date

2 cards are a must for 4K now, don't think Fury will change that but maybe it can offer more at 980 and 980TI price ranges. 980TI seems to have dx12.1 and power draw going for it, Fury better win at price/performance.
 

Jaydip

Diamond Member
Mar 29, 2010
3,691
21
81
So according to you since NV had new stuff to sell, it's OK to neglect older products, despite 780/780Ti being only 1.5-2 years old. WOW, just wow, I guess it's now OK for a $650-700 card to become as slow as a $400 R9 290, that today sells for just $220. :whiste:



That's hilarious coming from NV followers who bashed AMD's frame times with HD7000 series but AMD actually worked to fix the problem instead of closing their eyes because R9 200 series was release. I guess it's OK that R9 270X crushes 580 by 30%, that 680 can't even beat an R9 280 today and 960 OC coming close to 780Ti in some titles.

You should tell a 780/780Ti owner that it's OK that their cards are now destroyed by a $220 R9 290 because a GPU's shelf-life is now < 2 year according to you!

I am pretty sure the guy who paid $700 for a 780Ti finds it amusing that his card is 50% slower in The Witcher 3.



Do you own a computer shop or something because only an NV shareholder or a person who sells Maxwell GPUs would start defending Fermi/Kepler performance in modern titles.



Just imagine how many of his relatives and close friends received his biased advice in the last couple of decades of their PC upgrades. I bet any $ that he is one of those guys who would recommend a 960 over spending $50 extra for an R9 290 but then once a next gen x60 card comes out, he'll recommend the gamer to spend yet another $200 in 2 years from now just to end up at $220 R9 290 level of performance of 2 years ago. Sad, just sad.



Looking forward to your criticism of NV next generation once they copy AIO CLC and HBM tech. Wow, NV is so unoriginal, couldn't even invent their own memory technology, had to copy AMD's HBM design ideas with Pascal. / sarcasm. Also, copied tessellation from Radeon 8500 and EyeFinity, etc.



Unfortunately there is a growing group that wants PC gaming to become a monopoly so all games have GameWorks - you know GeForceMasterRace vs. AMDpeasantPCgamers.

1. It is called priorities, when you have new things to sell you focus on those first.AMD had to keep improving 290/X because they had nothing new to sell. If you believe a company will incur same investment on an aging/soon to eoled product you are deluding yourself.

2.Why you are comparing 270X to 580? why you aren't comparing a 6970 instead? you know they are on different process nodes right? so what happens when you compare it to a 6970?

3.About the Kepler performance myth http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_980_Ti/31.html looks very natural to me.You also were a big proponent of overclocking , you know what happens when you overclock 780/Ti right? you call about bias of US reviewers but they actually didn't embarrass AMD further by comparing a max oc 290 to a max oc 780 at launch.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
Meh, these tech new sites are in the dark like the rest of us, only difference is they lack logic and speculate like NUTs, completely wildly with so many different outcomes.

Anyone with some common sense will have realized immediately, AMD simply cannot re-badge Hawaii, it's not competitive due to the massive power consumption delta. The R290/X SKUs are selling for $200-280. If they are releasing a new series of SKUs and want to sell it for $329/389, it has to be significantly improved to compete* against 970/980.

** My meaning of competitive 390/X
They need to shave 50W off the TDP if performance is the same, putting it at ~200W gaming load. Or boost performance by 10-20% with a small power reduction. If its faster, it can justify the higher power usage. But it cannot be slower and much more power hungry. That's a dealbreaker.

The performance of the 290X isn't really that far off of the 980. If they keep power usage the same and improve performance by 20% it'll be a good value @ $390. In the end gross performance trumps efficiency if the pricing is good. performance
 

JoeRambo

Golden Member
Jun 13, 2013
1,814
2,105
136
Can't believe nobody has linked Warsam71's very fitting picture on twitter here yet:

Honestly by now AMD representative credibility is in same bucket as TSMC's process marketing. We all want AMD to succeed with products, but their credibility was bulldozed into pile of crap. Only benchmarks from reliable 3rd parties count now.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
Ha, just play CiV and D3 like me, then you'll be able to use a 7970 on your 1440p monitor forever...

There is more truth to this than first glance would give away. It really is only a few games that a single 970/290 can't play perfectly fine @ 1440. People will concentrate on these if it fits their position, but it's pretty niche, really.
 

zagitta

Member
Sep 11, 2012
27
0
0
Honestly by now AMD representative credibility is in same bucket as TSMC's process marketing. We all want AMD to succeed with products, but their credibility was bulldozed into pile of crap. Only benchmarks from reliable 3rd parties count now.

What on earth are you on about The picture a variation of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keep_Calm_and_Carry_On and I see it as poking fun at all of the doom and gloom about AMD's demise and what not
 

Serandur

Member
Apr 8, 2015
38
0
6
I forgot to address your point. We can never compare AMD vs. NV ROPs on paper, it has never worked that way.

Titan X has 96 ROPs = 43.6


285 has 32 ROPs = 19.9
290 has 64 ROPs = 16.6



My point was not to compare ROPs of NV to AMD but rather Fiji's to Hawaii's by taking into account that Tonga with only 32 ROPs already clobbers Hawaii in pixel fill-rate.

On paper specs, Titan X has 3.3X more pixel shading power in games over a 925mhz HD7970, but its performance is about 2.08X faster at 1440P per TPU's testing. We can't compare NV vs. AMD ROPs on paper.
I was wrong to use the term "pixel fillrate" to describe the impact of ROPs. 3Dmark's color fill test is not actually a test of pure ROP performance, but is heavily-influenced and limited by effective memory throughput (notice how Tonga excels at the test with its color compression techniques despite a significant disadvantage in both peak bandwidth and ROPs relative to Hawaii and why Hawaii barely moves past Tahiti on the test despite double the ROPs), rasterizers, and even shader configuration as well. All the peak numbers we can see on GPU-Z are theoretically real in an ideal scenario, but in tests will never be reached (including bandwidth) because of other factors of the GPU. However, the specifications are still real and important, it's just difficult to measure why with consumer tools. Even though more/faster ROPs do not linearly mean a higher score in that pixel fill test because of those other limitations (like Hawaii relative to Tahiti and, to a lesser degree due to HBM's bandwidth and greater shader disparity, the upcoming Fiji relative to Tonga), the higher number of ROPs are still useful for pixel sampling.

For those same reasons Hawaii doubled ROPs over Tahiti with little measurable pixel color fill gain and with less than 50% shader gain, I'd imagine Fiji is doing the same over Hawaii. The lossless delta color compression techniques AMD are using don't negate the usefulness of additional ROPs or even bandwidth, for that matter, just like they don't with Nvidia (who are also pushing ROP performance through the roof with the ROP count and clock speed increases despite similar compression technology).

With regards to GM200, it has double the ROPs of its predecessor and runs at a significantly higher frequency with delta color compression significantly boosting its color fillrate too, but as mentioned above, color fillrate isn't purely a result of ROPs nor is the measurement the sole purpose of adding more. GM200 isn't even quite 2x the speed of GK110, but it's peak ROP performance is far higher. It's just natural progression that Fiji should do the same thing relative to Hawaii and since Fiji presumably doesn't have the frequency advantage over Hawaii that GM200 has over its predecessor to do a 2x or higher increase with only 96 ROPs, 128 ROPs are the result.

Relative to the similarly-powerful GK110, GM204 even has 33% more ROPs at a much higher clock speed despite the lossless compression; it's simply indicative of a general and industry-encompassing push for inordinately greater ROP performance that both vendors are taking part in. Just like both implementing color compression techniques, both moving on to HBM, Nvidia simplifying their shaders more like AMD following Fermi, etc.
Tonga has 40% higher memory bandwidth efficiency, which means if Fiji has the same tech, its 512GB/sec is equivalent to 717GB/sec on a 290X, which is more than double.
I was just mentioning bus width with regards to clock speed to simply demonstrate a misunderstanding people have when ignoring the latter to assume the former alone means anything; you seem to be under the impression I'm taking potshots at Fiji or something, I'm not. I'm fully aware of delta color compression, but it's not, for example, relevant to peak bandwidth resulting from memory bus width in tandem with frequency. Peak bandwidth is peak bandwidth and HBM could be implemented with or without lossless color compression that ultimately just increases the processor's efficient usage of that bandwidth.
 
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tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
6,734
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The performance of the 290X isn't really that far off of the 980. If they keep power usage the same and improve performance by 20% it'll be a good value @ $390. In the end gross performance trumps efficiency if the pricing is good. performance

A 5% bump in clocks is going to equal a 20% increase in performance how?!
 

Creig

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,171
13
81
How the heck are you supposed to do 8K on 4 GB? I mean you could, but the framerate won't be pretty.
The overwhelming majority of gamers out there are still at 1080P. 8K isn't going to be a concern for at least five years, probably longer.
 

therealnickdanger

Senior member
Oct 26, 2005
987
2
0
How the heck are you supposed to do 8K on 4 GB? I mean you could, but the framerate won't be pretty.

For starters, we don't don't what GPU setup they used, but my guess is one or a little of all of the following:

1. New lossless compression schemes
2. CrossFire with pooled VRAM (dual card = 8, triple card = 12, quad card = 16GB)
3. Some other large cache on/near the GPU that we haven't heard about yet

Let's also remember that they aren't posting shots of Witcher 3 or GTAV at 8K, so I assume this only works with games with lower memory usage. You know what they say about assumptions: they kick ass.
 

csbin

Senior member
Feb 4, 2013
860
413
136
AMD Fury X is coming...official

http://www.hwbattle.com/bbs/board.php?bo_table=news&wr_id=2817






AMD Radeon R9 Fury X
AMD’s most advanced and innovative GPU to date, AMD Radeon™ R9 Fury X graphics delivers the highest GPU memory and width ever for unparalleled 4K and VR gaming. Push your settings to the max with your ideal screen resolution and config (6K gameplay using AMD Eyefinity technology – no problem!),
and get ready to redefine reality with amped support for AMD LiquidVR™. Exploit DirectX® 12 and Vulkan™ APIs and AMD CrossFire™ and FreeSync™ technologies.
Coveting quiet, mod-friendly and liquid-cooled technology? It’s all here – and with incredible new levels of design flexibility and scale.
MAKING BEAUTIFUL MEMORY.
AMD Radeon™ R9 Fury X graphics is the world’s first graphics card to integrate on-chip High Bandwidth Memory (HBM) technology.
AMD’s lastest industry innovation delivers more than 3X the bandwidth per watt over GDDR5 and a 4096-bit memory interface for incredible new advances in power and efficiency.
ENJOY THE VIEW.
AMD Radeon™ R9 Fury X graphics is engineered for 4K gaming, DirectX® 12 and Vulkan™ APIs, max settings, and ultimate monitor configuration flexibilicy.
Expand your field of view with AMD Eyefinity technology and experience the smoothest 6K gameplay using 3×1 1440p FreeSync™-enabled monitors.
SMALL SIZE. GIANT IMPACT.
The sleek, envy-inducing new form of AMD Radeon™ R9 Fury X graphics packs an onboard GPU Tach activity meter and LED illumination, plus the raw graphics processing power for a true CPU paradigm shift.
REDEFINE REALITY.
AMD Radeon™ R9 Fury X graphics is blazing the trail in virtual reality.
AMD LiquidVR™ ensures world-class VR experiences with low latency and a broad level of head mounted display compatibility.
 

96Firebird

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 2010
5,712
316
126
The overwhelming majority of gamers out there are still at 1080P. 8K isn't going to be a concern for at least five years, probably longer.

Did you read the thread? People are hyping that Fiji will be able to run games at 8K, all because the AMD pages posted some pictures of games in 8K resolution.

More hype for disappointment, I'm afraid...
 

flopper

Senior member
Dec 16, 2005
739
19
76
Did you read the thread? People are hyping that Fiji will be able to run games at 8K, all because the AMD pages posted some pictures of games in 8K resolution.

Will be fun once 8k is doable and out there.
Today or 4 days from now or the next 3 years or such no 8K sadly.
Obviously 4K is a target for Fury X
dx12 with win10 dualcards and 4K well its the future soon here
 

caswow

Senior member
Sep 18, 2013
525
136
116
Did you read the thread? People are hyping that Fiji will be able to run games at 8K, all because the AMD pages posted some pictures of games in 8K resolution.

More hype for disappointment, I'm afraid...

where do you see people hyping 8k gaming? the whole hype thing is just certain people making a fuss over a gpu that is coming next week. thats your/their own fault if they hype themselfes too much up.
 
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