[Rumor (Various)] AMD R7/9 3xx / Fiji / Fury

[Udgnim]

If Nvidia drops the price of the GTX 980 to $399, which they could easily afford to do, what then?

then it's a good thing AMD exists for competition

 

[Silverforce11]

I don't think many gamers will be fooled by the 8GB vram on a card without the grunt to bottleneck 4GB. If its a rebrand without efficiency improvements, its an expensive dud when R290/X are going for so cheap.

The only way they can justify those prices is if they boost performance by 10% and drop power use a little bit.

 

[stahlhart]

is there a forum rule against deliberate misinformation? is that trolling? because there are few who are deliberately doing it while disguising it as discussion/speculation.

It isn't the job of the staff to determine or judge whether anything posted here is "information" or "misinformation". It is up to participants in the discussion to get to the truth on their own, and to do so in a civil and respectful manner -- or, failing that, following ViRGE's direction to agree to disagree and move on.

A forum member who has an opinion that you do not agree with is only "trolling" because you willfully took offense to what they posted, and responded to it in a manner that more than likely violated forum rules.

Guess what happens -- or, more to the point, what doesn't happen -- when the perceived inflammatory post simply isn't responded to?

The problem in this forum isn't the individual initiating confrontation; the problem is the individual responding to it and enabling the confrontation, and until you figure out the difference, the problem isn't going away.

--stahlhart

 

[TaintedSquirrel]

390X vbios is up via [H] forum.

https://mega.co.nz/#!qMUDQbha!7A2RITnnCjTNCOsvdiV3CG7KkTg0t2ZLCmGY2-UcrDQ
Mirror: http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=85146925914006580479

source

 

[sirplayalot]

390X vbios is up via [H] forum.

https://mega.co.nz/#!qMUDQbha!7A2RITnnCjTNCOsvdiV3CG7KkTg0t2ZLCmGY2-UcrDQ
Mirror: http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=85146925914006580479

source

Was just about to come post this for you all.

Thank you.

 

[JDG1980]

Holy hell, I know because when NVIDIA rebranded the 680 and the 470 it was totally different.

AMD should be condemned for trying to get the full price for the performance given the 980's price point and amount of memory.

As others have pointed out, the 470 wasn't rebranded; GF110 was actually a different die than GF100, with new features added. It wasn't a massive change, but it was a change nonetheless.

As for the 680->770, the GTX 680 was released in March 2012, and rebranded to GTX 770 in May 2013 - just over one year later. It was then supplanted by the GM204 cards in September 2014. So this card had a total life of 30 months. While that's a longer run than has been typical, at least it actually was replaced.

Compare that to what AMD is doing here. Let's be generous and assume that these rebrands will only last 1 year and that AMD will have a line of 14nm FinFET+ GPUs ready on June 2016. I don't think that will happen (they'll be lucky to make Christmas 2016, and if unlucky, they might be looking at June 2017) - but let's give them the benefit of the doubt even though they've proven they don't deserve it. Things still look pretty bad for the red team:
Bonaire: Released March 2013 (27 months old at time of 2nd rebrand) - will be 39 months old at time of replacement
Pitcairn: Released March 2012 (39 months old at time of 2nd rebrand) - will be 51 months old at time of replacement
Tonga: Released September 2014 - OK, I agree that rebranding this isn't outrageous, though I'm still mystified why they don't release the full die to the AIB market. (It could also use some power saving tweaks and a HEVC decoder to be more competitive with the GTX 960.)
Hawaii: Released October 2013 (20 months old at time of rebrand) - while this isn't necessarily all that outrageous in terms of age given the slow refresh cycles of modern GPUs, Hawaii's power consumption was widely criticized, and for AMD to do absolutely nothing about fixing it is basically a middle finger towards enthusiasts.

The AMD 300 series is clearly the worst GPU "generation" ever launched.

 

[Silverforce11]

The AMD 300 series is clearly the worst GPU "generation" ever launched.

I'll play the advocate:

Let's assume that its a rebrand with 10% more performance.

How can it be the worse GPU series ever, when its matching and beating its competitor, the 970/980? Sure it uses more power, but its either faster (390 vs 970) and/or its got more vram and cheaper (390X v 980).

Now, I don't think that PoV is going to make it work but you calling it the worse ever is drawing a damn long bow..

Also, as a reminder, 480 -> 580. Same node. Same manufacturer (TSMC), minor changes, major efficiency improvement.

 

[Azix]

If it's pure rebrands then AMD shouldn't have bothered. Nvidia gets away with selling 2 generations at a time so I think AMD could have. They seem to prefer to rename their whole stack to match the generation though. That then forces them to need to clear old stock which they wouldn't if they never did rebrand. I think they should just let it go and sell the older cards with new packaging and ask AIBs to alter coolers or something. That would leave them room to phase out the older cards based on new chips.

As it is now they will have to do the same for the 400 series because nobody releases a full stack of new chips anyway. Always is just a few first.

The hope this time around was for some minor improvements to the older chips, which would be uncharacteristic of both companies, but still possible. AMD did not bet enough on these chips and they will miss out on a huge opportunity if there are no real tangible hardware improvements. This was their chance to bury nvidia since they already have a competitive stack that would decimate the competition with a small nudge.

If there is a significant boost in performance, that would justify renaming possibly. Though they could have gone about it through relaunching the 290x down series.

 

[vissarix]

Please do not respond to obvious trolling (vissarix). Report instead.
Thanks
-Moderator Subyman

you guys are truly professional, im the only one getting infractions when everyone deserves it according to your rules...

i was being 100% objective...

Infraction issued for moderator callout. So am I.
-- stahlhart

 

[Stormflux]

Tis an unfortunate series of events leading up to the grand reveal of the Fury on Tuesday. Regardless of everything, AMD has diluted the R9 ### naming convention. #90 is no longer the high end, now it's mid-range and below. AMD does deserve any flak they get from this 300 series launch. It is REALLY the timelines involved that blow my mind for this Rebrand.

I'm still looking forward to seeing what the Fury brings. And agree with others, that the 980Ti is the elephant in the room not the TitanX. The TX is garbage now for any metric involving value. I want to see a nice clash up of Fury X and 980Ti when it comes to prices. It could possibly mean a Fury Pro at $450-$550. Exactly my range, and the 980 is of questionable value there.

Looking forward to 14/16nm and HBM2 most of all though.

 

[Creig]

Even if the 300 series turns out to be a complete rebrand, the cards will have more memory, better coolers and very mature drivers. The one variable that will make or break the 300 series is where AMD prices them.

 

[JDG1980]

I'll play the advocate:

Let's assume that its a rebrand with 10% more performance.

How can it be the worse GPU series ever, when its matching and beating its competitor, the 970/980? Sure it uses more power, but its either faster (390 vs 970) and/or its got more vram and cheaper (390X v 980).

Now, I don't think that PoV is going to make it work but you calling it the worse ever is drawing a damn long bow..

Also, as a reminder, 480 -> 580. Same node. Same manufacturer (TSMC), minor changes, major efficiency improvement.

I'm declaring it the worst generation ever because no other GPU generation has been a straight 100% rebrand from top to bottom. AMD's 200 series came closest, but that was moderately tolerable because it was still competitive in performance and perf/watt. But doing it again, this time without even a new card in the 390 slot? With some GPUs over three years old, and that's not even at the bottom of the stack? I stand by what I said: worst GPU generation ever.

 

[railven]

Even if the 300 series turns out to be a complete rebrand, the cards will have more memory, better coolers and very mature drivers. The one variable that will make or break the 300 series is where AMD prices them.

With a leaked $370 price tag for r9 390, that put's it above GTX 970. With the only reliable thing we can off right now is the bigger VRAM pool, that performance and power metric is gonna make or break it at that price point for many people.

The uninformed might just see "8GBs! NICE!"

 

[JDG1980]

As it is now they will have to do the same for the 400 series because nobody releases a full stack of new chips anyway. Always is just a few first.

At this point, I'm expecting one new high-end FinFET+ GPU in 2016, and everything else straight rebrands of the same stuff once again. I don't believe AMD will ever release another full lineup again until they get bought out.

 

[Stormflux]

I'm declaring it the worst generation ever because no other GPU generation has been a straight 100% rebrand from top to bottom. AMD's 200 series came closest, but that was moderately tolerable because it was still competitive in performance and perf/watt. But doing it again, this time without even a new card in the 390 slot? With some GPUs over three years old, and that's not even at the bottom of the stack? I stand by what I said: worst GPU generation ever.

You saying Fiji is a rebrand too? Hawaii was brand new with the 200 series right? It was only the 280's that were rebrands? Bonaire was new as well right? GCN 1.1?

It was, High End to Low End:
Hawaii (New) GCN 1.1
Tahiti (Rebrand) GCN 1.0
Tonga (New) GCN 1.2
Bonair (New) GCN 1.1
Curaçao (Rebrand) GCN 1.0


They seem to be doing the same this time but instead of knocking the previous generation down, from #90 to #80, they're keeping the same class, but introducing a whole brand new line in Fiji/Fury.

Now it's looking to be, High End to Low End:
Fiji (New) GCN 1.3? Better be at least 1.2.
Hawaii (Rebrand) GCN 1.1
Tonga (Rebrand) GCN 1.2
Bonaire (Rebrand) GCN 1.1

Edit: It's really just the devaluing of the Number naming convention.

 

[guskline]

Can't wait for the 16th and perhaps the 24 so these AMD cards can be analyzed.

P.S. Very happy to stay with my R9 290s in CF!

 

[DiogoDX]

HDMI 1.4a or 2.0?

 

[ocre]

Board shot from a user over at [H] looks like the GPU is not foundry'd at GloFo. Doesn't look good for the GPU having any meaningful improvements. Not cool AMD.

]

I absolutely hate the shape things are looking to take.

Its just.......sad

I can't believe that people can say that its just fine.....

How are they gonna pull out of the nose dive in marketshare? Its.......just not good.
I want to believe that this won't be the case, but really.....I am having a hard time holding on to that hope

 

[Azix]

At this point, I'm expecting one new high-end FinFET+ GPU in 2016, and everything else straight rebrands of the same stuff once again. I don't believe AMD will ever release another full lineup again until they get bought out.

It really depends on the state of competition. People bash AMD for using the same chips for soo long, but they have remained relevant for that long. next year depending on the situation they might get away with refreshing fiji and extending the design to the low end. Nvidias R&D is not that much larger than AMDs and they would be focusing on getting their GPUs over to HBM. They likely would be easy to counter with chips of the current gen on smaller process.

Companies won't spend the money just for bragging rights.

There are some features people would hope they put on the lower end chips though. like freesync etc. They may be saving the refresh of hawaii and below for next years process.

 

[TechyGeek]

What I don't understand is why isn't tonga in each of those rebrands? Clearly tonga is superior, it works, and they have months of expertise to put in their 300 series.
They could've stuck tonga in 390x and that would've been epic win.

 

[JDG1980]

You saying Fiji is a rebrand too? Hawaii was brand new with the 200 series right? It was only the 280's that were rebrands? Bonaire was new as well right? GCN 1.1?

Bonaire was introduced as part of the 7000 series (7790).

Fiji obviously isn't a rebrand, but I'm not counting it as part of the 300 series because AMD isn't labeling or describing it as such.

New AMD dGPU releases after GCN 1.0 have been as follows:

• Bonaire (GCN 1.1) - March 2013
• Hawaii (GCN 1.1) - October 2013
• Tonga (GCN 1.2) - September 2014
• Fiji (GCN 1.?) - unknown, maybe this month or maybe later

And there won't be any other new AMD dGPUs this year; even the most optimistic timelines from AMD don't have FinFET+ Arctic Islands chips coming until 2016. So that's a grand total of 4 GPUs from AMD in three years. And 2014 and 2015 are seeing only a single new GPU each.


Now compare that to Nvidia's release schedule following the first round of Kepler cards:

• GK208 (Kepler 2nd generation) - April 2013
• GM107 (Maxwell 1st generation) - February 2014
• GM108 (Maxwell 1st generation) - March 2014
• GM204 (Maxwell 2nd generation) - September 2014
• GK210 (Kepler 2nd generation) - November 2014
• GM206 (Maxwell 2nd generation) - January 2015
• GM200 (Maxwell 2nd generation) - March 2015

That's four new GPUs for 2014 alone, and two more in 2015. Again, this is talking only about actual new silicon, not cut-down parts or differently clocked cards. Only 2013 was a lean year, but that's understandable since Kepler had been released fairly recently, in Q2-Q3 2012.


We can see that Nvidia is pushing forward the state of the art, and AMD is failing in their obligation to do so.

 

[railven]

Can't wait for the 16th and perhaps the 24 so these AMD cards can be analyzed.

P.S. Very happy to stay with my R9 290s in CF!

How is 290 CF treating you? And how is that heat? If I can pick up two clearance priced 290s for say $350-425, I'd use that as my stop gap. Otherwise CFX/SLI current mid range is out of the question cuz then I'd enter GTX 980 Ti and I'd rather get one card to be honest.

Still hoping Fiji delivers. If it's 90% GTX 980 Ti even with 4GB anywhere from $500-$650 (watercooled at the top point) I'm sold. Otherwise, I'm going super low (SLI/CFX <$425) or ...well using a GTX 680 right now, not sure where to go haha.

 

[flopper]

rebrands?

its a refresh

 

[JDG1980]

It really depends on the state of competition. People bash AMD for using the same chips for soo long, but they have remained relevant for that long.

I've seen this excuse trotted out before. The obvious problem with it is that AMD's market share (not much above 20% and falling) shows that AMD's current lineup is not "relevant" or competitive, regardless of what the company's fans might think. Yes, in terms of raw performance, Hawaii can come reasonably close to GM204 - but it uses double the power to do so, and falls behind in terms of features. Buyers hate Hawaii so much that they're flocking to the GTX 960, which is lucky to post 75% of the performance of a similarly priced R9 290.

The "relevance" excuse might have made sense to justify the 200 series rebrands in 2013, since these still stood up fairly well against Kepler; their performance/watt was a bit worse, but not by much, and raw performance was significantly better at the same price points, with more RAM (and 2GB->3GB is a much more important distinction than 4GB->8GB on a midrange card). But that excuse can't justify trotting out a 2012 chip (Pitcairn) for... what, is it the fourth time now?

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Tahiti/Hawaii are now the worst gpu generation ever because they compete so well that nvidias newest cards on a similar performance tier are barely faster than an "ancient" architecture that is now faster that the nvidias cards it was released with when it was new....

The way I see it Kepler is the worst gpu generation ever and when nvidias planned obsolescence driver program tanks Maxwell all these Tahiti and Hawaii gpus will overtake them as well.