Rumor: Windows 8 will allow for Xbox 360 games to be played on PC's

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TheUnk

Golden Member
Jun 24, 2005
1,810
0
71
It's possible they might sell a special XBOX-DVD drive for PCs.

I don't think it's too far fetched considering how similar consoles and PCs are these days..
 

Beev

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2006
7,775
0
0
It's possible they might sell a special XBOX-DVD drive for PCs.

I don't think it's too far fetched considering how similar consoles and PCs are these days..

Why would they need to? A 360 DVD is just a standard DVD, but only loads on a 360 because the BIOS is correct (I think. I could be talking out of my ass). All MS has to do is make 360 games access the correct BIOS in Windows 8 from a generic DVD drive.

That's my understanding at least. It's emulating a 360 with a huge, huge array of hardware configurations that will be the problem.
 

mmntech

Lifer
Sep 20, 2007
17,504
12
0
PPC language isn't too hard to translate to x86. Most 360 games are ported to PC eventually. I guess Microsoft wants to cut out the middle man.

The is interesting though. Windows 8 is due out next year supposedly. Could be a sign that Microsoft is planning on phasing out the 360 soon.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,931
5,802
126
new 360 games are being printed on different media, that was one of the big updates with the latest dashboard update.
 

dguy6789

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2002
8,558
3
76
Well... tbh you're comparing 3rd party un-paid devs making free emulators from a basement in their free time to the company that knows the inner workings of their console from the ground up. That said both consoles this gen have had their fair share of issues emulating their own consoles from the previous gen so who knows.

Can you list an example in history where an emulator machine that ran well wasn't an order of magnitude more powerful than the machine it was emulating?
 

Todd33

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2003
7,842
2
81
PPC language isn't too hard to translate to x86. Most 360 games are ported to PC eventually. I guess Microsoft wants to cut out the middle man.

The is interesting though. Windows 8 is due out next year supposedly. Could be a sign that Microsoft is planning on phasing out the 360 soon.

But the 10MB EDRAM is impossible to emulate with it's 256GB/s bandwidth.
 

TakeNoPrisoners

Platinum Member
Jun 3, 2011
2,600
1
81
Will there be a minimum specification to run these games? I would imagine that microsoft would publish an emulator to run these games. Xbox 360 games need to be able to think they are running on an Authentic Xbox. That said if this is true it is great news! Many games don't make it to PC and I would like the oppurtunity to play them.
 

Mr. President

Member
Feb 6, 2011
124
2
81
PPC language isn't too hard to translate to x86. Most 360 games are ported to PC eventually.

That's just an enormous simplification. It's not that difficult to emulate per se, but that's a far cry from doing so at any meaningful speeds. And ports aren't emulated but rewritten.

For example, Apple's PPC emulator for OSX, Rosetta, only performs at about a third of native speed. That's fine for office work but far from useful in games. And that still leaves out emulation of the various interconnects and subsystems in the 360 that we don't see in PCs.
 

Beev

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2006
7,775
0
0
new 360 games are being printed on different media, that was one of the big updates with the latest dashboard update.

But aren't the DVD drives in ALL 360's, new or old, still just standard DVD drives?
 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
31,796
2
0
But aren't the DVD drives in ALL 360's, new or old, still just standard DVD drives?

Yes, it's not a new disk format. They are just changing the security on the new disks and opening up the disk all the way to the inner edge to gain a little more space.
 

cyphilis

Senior member
May 7, 2008
454
0
0
This could be huge for MS and Live if they can have both PC and 360 players playing in the same games. I get where some of you don't want to play against a keyboard/mouse guy, but to me it doesnt matter. Playing L4D2 on PC, I use my 360 controller because I know it so well and feel I have an advantage. I played PC until 3 years ago, and changing to the controller was difficult, but find it better now in my case. I will admit that you don't have as much control of aiming, and sniping is more difficult with a controller, at least for me. I know that argument will always continue on and there are strong feelings on both sides, but I look it as more players, more servers, more ways to get in games then there is now.
Im excited and hope it happens.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
10
81
If this is true and they somehow let you map mouse/keyword to the controls and it actually works well, I'll be buying a lot more 360 games. I'm terrible at first person games on consoles.

/this

IF true i will be buying 360 games
 

mmntech

Lifer
Sep 20, 2007
17,504
12
0
That's just an enormous simplification. It's not that difficult to emulate per se, but that's a far cry from doing so at any meaningful speeds. And ports aren't emulated but rewritten.

For example, Apple's PPC emulator for OSX, Rosetta, only performs at about a third of native speed. That's fine for office work but far from useful in games. And that still leaves out emulation of the various interconnects and subsystems in the 360 that we don't see in PCs.

True dat. Just saying it's possible, never said what hardware you'd need. It's a moot point though. If I had to put money on it, I'd say it's a baseless rumour. Either you'd need a very powerful system, some sort of GPGPU optimization, or a dedicated expansion card. Would just be easier to buy a 360. They're cheap enough, relatively speaking.
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
Totally not happening, for all the reasons mentioned in this thread.

Microsoft hates the PC gaming community anyway. We all know that
 

sourceninja

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2005
8,805
65
91
Why would they have to emulate it. If the API's exist in windows 8, it just becomes another compiler target. Sure that means only new games could do it, but why not?
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Why would they have to emulate it. If the API's exist in windows 8, it just becomes another compiler target. Sure that means only new games could do it, but why not?

Because even if you include two separate executables on the disc, hardware configuration matters. There's more to porting than just flipping a compiler output switch.
 

dougp

Diamond Member
May 3, 2002
7,950
4
0
Because even if you include two separate executables on the disc, hardware configuration matters. There's more to porting than just flipping a compiler output switch.

Then require the program to check the hardware to determine if it's capable. If not, then it won't run - much like Aero. Hell, it gives OEMs another sticker they can throw on your laptop/desktop.
 

Raduque

Lifer
Aug 22, 2004
13,141
138
106
Why would they have to emulate it. If the API's exist in windows 8, it just becomes another compiler target. Sure that means only new games could do it, but why not?

You're missing the part of the rumor where it says all games.

I'm calling bullshit on this one. It smells, a lot. I don't even think a regular plain old PC DVD drive can read an Xbox360 game disc.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Then require the program to check the hardware to determine if it's capable. If not, then it won't run - much like Aero. Hell, it gives OEMs another sticker they can throw on your laptop/desktop.

It's not simply about capable or not capable. When you write for a particular platform, you test on that platform. What may be easily handled by the Xbox hardware might be difficult for the PC and vice versa. There is no nice neat linear scale. Despite Microsoft's attempt to make it look like you can just assign an absolute performance number, it doesn't work that way.
 

crisium

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2001
2,643
615
136
I would pay up to $50 for a PCI-e add-on card that enabled this. Anymore and it would be better just buying a 360.
 

dougp

Diamond Member
May 3, 2002
7,950
4
0
It's not simply about capable or not capable. When you write for a particular platform, you test on that platform. What may be easily handled by the Xbox hardware might be difficult for the PC and vice versa. There is no nice neat linear scale. Despite Microsoft's attempt to make it look like you can just assign an absolute performance number, it doesn't work that way.

The only limitation is the EDRAM. If MS can find a way around it, then it is possible. But as someone else stated, this just smells fishy.
 

Mr. President

Member
Feb 6, 2011
124
2
81
The only limitation is the EDRAM. If MS can find a way around it, then it is possible. But as someone else stated, this just smells fishy.

It is not just the eDRAM. While many of the individual components in a modern PC are orders of magnitude faster than the 360, the interconnects between them are not.

The 360 has a unified memory system which means that almost everything connected to the front side bus moves at the same speed of ~20gb/sec. Meanwhile, the system RAM itself has a bandwidth of 22.4gb/sec and a same speed connection to the GPU. Conversely, 16 lane PCIe 2.0 maxes out at 8gb/sec while dual channel DDR3-1333 only has a bandwidth of 21.3gb/sec. Very few front side busses are likewise able to match ~20gb/sec and, on the Intel side, it's basically limited to QPI enabled boards.

And that's before we even take the overheads of emulation into account.
 

dougp

Diamond Member
May 3, 2002
7,950
4
0
It is not just the eDRAM. While many of the individual components in a modern PC are orders of magnitude faster than the 360, the interconnects between them are not.

The 360 has a unified memory system which means that almost everything connected to the front side bus moves at the same speed of ~20gb/sec. Meanwhile, the system RAM itself has a bandwidth of 22.4gb/sec and a same speed connection to the GPU. Conversely, 16 lane PCIe 2.0 maxes out at 8gb/sec while dual channel DDR3-1333 only has a bandwidth of 21.3gb/sec. Very few front side busses are likewise able to match ~20gb/sec and, on the Intel side, it's basically limited to QPI enabled boards.

And that's before we even take the overheads of emulation into account.

Yah, you're right - I forgot about how the 360 would be connected. But modern computers typically have a minimum of 4GB of RAM, right? The conversation never touched on what resolution the games would be run at. I just saw that the CPU is a PowerPC - that would change things quite a bit, and actually require true emulation. For some reason I thought it was an x86 based Xenon. Whoops, excuse my ignorance!
 
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