Originally posted by: mafia
This is wierd. There is so many ways to overcome and safely stop a vehicle in this type of situation. Shifting to neutral and maybe a lower gear. Holding the push/stop button would also work. (Not confirmed yet). Did he even try to change the gears? Is it possible to shift down to neutral in a automatic while the accelerator is being pressed?
Originally posted by: mwmorph
I'm pretty sure, the ES350 doesn't have brake by wire so you have a direct, physical connection to the master cylinder and thus the brakes.
The brakes on a car, are always at least 3x as powerful as the engine, average of about 4x and on some performance cars, 5x. Even if the car was WOT in drive, you could push the brakes down and stop.
As for any car with Drive by wire, even then, there is no car that will not allow brakes to be used when the accelerator is being pressed. There are failsafes, backups and backups of failsafes backups for those cars because the brakes are by far the mot important part of your vehicle.
Standard procedure is to drop the car into neutral or a lower gear and apply the brakes or e-brakes.
For a situation like this to occur, you would need 2 brake lines to be physically cut (1 is not enough to lose all brakes on a modern car), the accelerator stuck in WOT and the transmission malfunctioning to shift even into neutral.
The most likely explanation is the floormats depressed the accelerator and prevented the brakes from being pressed down. More likely, unfortunately is that problem exists between Steering Wheel and chair. Something like floor mat shifting caused it, panic set in and all the wrong decisions were made (or morel likely, panic induced inhibition). That or he did it for some unknown reason like a few years ago when a BMW 318i driver a few years ago in Great Britain.
Originally posted by: fleabag
Originally posted by: mwmorph
I'm pretty sure, the ES350 doesn't have brake by wire so you have a direct, physical connection to the master cylinder and thus the brakes.
The brakes on a car, are always at least 3x as powerful as the engine, average of about 4x and on some performance cars, 5x. Even if the car was WOT in drive, you could push the brakes down and stop.
As for any car with Drive by wire, even then, there is no car that will not allow brakes to be used when the accelerator is being pressed. There are failsafes, backups and backups of failsafes backups for those cars because the brakes are by far the mot important part of your vehicle.
Standard procedure is to drop the car into neutral or a lower gear and apply the brakes or e-brakes.
For a situation like this to occur, you would need 2 brake lines to be physically cut (1 is not enough to lose all brakes on a modern car), the accelerator stuck in WOT and the transmission malfunctioning to shift even into neutral.
The most likely explanation is the floormats depressed the accelerator and prevented the brakes from being pressed down. More likely, unfortunately is that problem exists between Steering Wheel and chair. Something like floor mat shifting caused it, panic set in and all the wrong decisions were made (or morel likely, panic induced inhibition). That or he did it for some unknown reason like a few years ago when a BMW 318i driver a few years ago in Great Britain.
It's funny that you say that because my dad said the same thing years ago when I inquired to him what to do if your car has a stuck accelerator. This is clearly bullshit though because even though I'm familiar with using cars that don't have power brakes (engine is off, brakes already been used 3 times+ so all vacuum is gone) when I was braking this car, it really felt like I had no power brakes (even though I did) and STILL the car continued to accelerate! THE ONLY WAY ONE COULD HAVE STOPPED THE CAR WAS TO EITHER PUT IT IN NEUTRAL OR FIX THE THROTTLE ISSUE.
Originally posted by: amdhunter
Darwin did his deed. What an idiot.
Originally posted by: mwmorph
Originally posted by: fleabag
Originally posted by: mwmorph
I'm pretty sure, the ES350 doesn't have brake by wire so you have a direct, physical connection to the master cylinder and thus the brakes.
The brakes on a car, are always at least 3x as powerful as the engine, average of about 4x and on some performance cars, 5x. Even if the car was WOT in drive, you could push the brakes down and stop.
As for any car with Drive by wire, even then, there is no car that will not allow brakes to be used when the accelerator is being pressed. There are failsafes, backups and backups of failsafes backups for those cars because the brakes are by far the mot important part of your vehicle.
Standard procedure is to drop the car into neutral or a lower gear and apply the brakes or e-brakes.
For a situation like this to occur, you would need 2 brake lines to be physically cut (1 is not enough to lose all brakes on a modern car), the accelerator stuck in WOT and the transmission malfunctioning to shift even into neutral.
The most likely explanation is the floormats depressed the accelerator and prevented the brakes from being pressed down. More likely, unfortunately is that problem exists between Steering Wheel and chair. Something like floor mat shifting caused it, panic set in and all the wrong decisions were made (or morel likely, panic induced inhibition). That or he did it for some unknown reason like a few years ago when a BMW 318i driver a few years ago in Great Britain.
It's funny that you say that because my dad said the same thing years ago when I inquired to him what to do if your car has a stuck accelerator. This is clearly bullshit though because even though I'm familiar with using cars that don't have power brakes (engine is off, brakes already been used 3 times+ so all vacuum is gone) when I was braking this car, it really felt like I had no power brakes (even though I did) and STILL the car continued to accelerate! THE ONLY WAY ONE COULD HAVE STOPPED THE CAR WAS TO EITHER PUT IT IN NEUTRAL OR FIX THE THROTTLE ISSUE.
Properly functioning brakes will NEVER EVER have any trouble stopping a car at WOT. It's just physics. You could have 7" brake discs, single piston calipers and organic brake pads and it would still out brake out a 4.6L Ford Mustang engine producing a respectable 315hp.
A Toyota Supra turbo has 1200hp worth of braking a 1987 Porsche 911Carerra has 1100hp a Lexus LS400 has 1000hp worth of decel, a SC400? 900hp. There is no physically possible way to build a car with weaker brakes than engines unless you actually try to design it specifically for that purpose.
Try ti next time, time your 0-60 time. Then time your 60-0 time. Which one is shorter?
A 996 Turbo can do 0-100 in 9.4 seconds and 100-0 in 4.3.
A Suburu Impreza Sti does 13.77 to 100mph and 4.25 back to 0.
A Civic Si does 16.02 to 100 and 4.64 to 0.
A Chrysler Crossfire does 17.3 to 100, 4.47 to 0.
Hell even your average family sedan like a Honda Accord 4 cylinder will do 0-100 in ~19-21 seconds and 100-0 between 4.6-5.5.
BMW has always been criticized for fitting weak brakes for the car's level of performance (a common joke is that is' Bavarian Motor Works, not Brake Works) and a E46 323i can still doe 0-100 in 19.93 while 100-0 in 5.16.
Do you know how long it takes a Bugatti Veyron with 1001+hp to reach 100mph? 5.5 seconds. You know how quickly it stops? 3.4 seconds.
Besides what are you talking about with your story?
Did you have a runaway acceleration on a car?
The brakes felt unassisted (as in a catastrophic failure in the brake booster?)
The brake pedal didn't move at all? (you were probably pressing the ACCELERATOR then)
The pedal had high resistance but some braking occurred?
99% of that issue would be driver error, the other 1% would be because of brake system failure. There is NO CAR IN THE WORLD TODAY, not the Tata Nano, not some chinese car, not a go kart that has a engine more powerful than the brakes.
Seeing from the general quality of your posts, I'd probably chalk it up as user error. You probably don't even know what kind of brake fluid your car uses, much less how brakes work.
You know why? Because the chances of having both the accelerator and brakes suddenly catastrophically fail at exactly the same time is about as high as a random person ever climbing mount Everest. That's why the 1980s Audi thing was found out later was user error. So was the 2003 or 2005 BMW thing.
As for your car not having stronger brakes than the engine, the chances of that? Exactly 0.0%.
Originally posted by: fleabag
I'm totally not surprised this happen. My dad owns an ES350 and I was driving it one day when I pushed hard on the accelerator for what ever reason, but when I let go of the accelerator the car kept going. I was scared that the Throttle By Wire had gotten messed up so I tried the best I could to hold down the brake but to no avail. I don't remember if I had considered putting the car in neutral but if I did it would've blown the engine and I really didn't want that to happen. So while I was doing my best to keep the car in control while I tried to figure out the problem, I looked under to see if there was anything doing something to the accelerator and found that the floor mat was firmly pushing on the bottom of the accelerator. So I pull the floor mat back and the car finally stopped accelerating and I continued on with my day from there.
It was a very scary moment and the cause of this was because the floor mat not being on the hooks like it was suppose to be. There are a large number of service bulletins and notifications that should be stressed at the dealerships but apparently are missing one step and that is to make it to the customer. This EASILY could've happened to my Dad and I don't think he would've been able to correctly handle the situation which worries me. I think the worst part about all of this was that how lightly he took news of what I had told him so I'm definitely going to forward this article to him.
Originally posted by: Sukhoi
It's amazing people can't comprehend the idea of turning the car off if the accelerator is stuck.
Originally posted by: LordMorpheus
Originally posted by: Sukhoi
It's amazing people can't comprehend the idea of turning the car off if the accelerator is stuck.
well you lose power brakes and steering.
However, nothing prevents you from putting it in neutral - it's a loaner car, anywho, who gives a damn about the engine?
Originally posted by: fleabag
Originally posted by: mafia
This is wierd. There is so many ways to overcome and safely stop a vehicle in this type of situation. Shifting to neutral and maybe a lower gear. Holding the push/stop button would also work. (Not confirmed yet). Did he even try to change the gears? Is it possible to shift down to neutral in a automatic while the accelerator is being pressed?
PUSH BUTTON DOES NOT WORK! YOU CANNOT TURN OFF THE CAR WHILE IT IS IN MOTION, PERIOD.
The Japanese automaker warned owners that if they think their vehicle is accelerating out of control, they should check to see whether their floor mat is under the pedal. If a driver can't remove the floor mat, Toyota advises drivers to step on the brake pedal with both feet until the vehicle slows and then try to put it into neutral and switch the ignition to accessory power. For vehicles with engine start/stop buttons, Toyota said the engine can be shut off by holding the button down for three seconds.