Russia gets Crimea

[PieIsAwesome]

The Nordic countries, united, can put up more than a fight against the Russians. They are small, but they are well-trained, well-equipped, and have access to advanced weaponry. The cost of invading them would be too high and that is sufficient deterrent.

That is assuming they actually use their armed forces and put up a fight, and not just let the enemy walk in and stay. . .

Next up lets see how polite the invaders are to Ukrainian forces and their equipment stuck in Crimea.

 

[Broheim]

I heard these are bloodless invasions. What gives?

reports are now saying the officer died of his injuries. 20 soldiers and 10-15 civilians (women) have barricaded themselves in a building and is so far holding them off.

shit's about to get real.

 

[sm625]

Only <1% of americans are even aware that the US state dept funded the failed coup in ukraine to the tune of $5 billion, maybe more. Why people continue to allow their tax dollars to be used to piss off a country with so many nukes is beyond me.

 

[Genx87]

Only <1% of americans are even aware that the US state dept funded the failed coup in ukraine to the tune of $5 billion, maybe more. Why people continue to allow their tax dollars to be used to piss off a country with so many nukes is beyond me.

Come on, let us have your source for this!

 

[fskimospy]

Come on, let us have your source for this!

Uhmm, do you really doubt what source he is about to give?

 

[Genx87]

Uhmm, do you really doubt what source he is about to give?

No doubt at all. But I derive pleasure when the link to RT shows up

 

[Ventanni]

I would suspect our first line of defense would be a welcome party of pro-communism feminists. If that doesn't scare the Russkies away then nothing will.

I laughed out loud at this lol.

 

[zinfamous]

Well even Gorby is down with this!



http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/03/18/russia-crimea-annexation/6554563/

how shocking.

he did send tanks into Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia and murdered about 200 citizens to keep them from "breaking away" in 1991.

Asserting that Russia had a rightful claim to them.

Gorby was an ass, no less-so than Putin.

 

[zinfamous]

Only <1% of americans are even aware that the US state dept funded the failed coup in ukraine to the tune of $5 billion, maybe more. Why people continue to allow their tax dollars to be used to piss off a country with so many nukes is beyond me.

if you want to point to silly conspiracy, at least those that are palpable, it would be clear that such was devised by Putin.

 

[Broheim]

The Nordic countries, united, can put up more than a fight against the Russians. They are small, but they are well-trained, well-equipped, and have access to advanced weaponry. The cost of invading them would be too high and that is sufficient deterrent.

That is assuming they actually use their armed forces and put up a fight, and not just let the enemy walk in and stay. . .

Next up lets see how polite the invaders are to Ukrainian forces and their equipment stuck in Crimea.

we really haven't been afraid of putting troops in harms way thousands of miles away, we damn sure aren't gonna roll over for the ruskies in our own back yards. Here in Denmark the old time commies and socialists don't want to react but opposition parties are calling for increased military capability here on European soil (increased military spending will probably follow soon). I watched an interview with a Swede saying they've come to the realization they're woefully unprepared for defense and are going to take steps to rectify it.

Europe is capable of sending the Russians packing back over the Urals in one fell swoop, you 'muricans wouldn't even have to get involved. Russia can't and won't face us head on militarily for years to come.

 

[TROLLERCAUST]

Welcome, and thanks for the unique viewpoint. In your opinion, is Finland prepared to risk a resurgent Russia? Given their pre-war embarassment from such a small country, I would think Putin would be looking elsewhere, but honestly I haven't kept track of Finland's military strength.

Russia is more interested in former Soviet lands but still Russia is not a nice neighbour to have. They have no respect for their smaller neighbours, the only thing it seems they respect is brute force. Putin and modern Russia sees the breakup of the Soviet Union as an error that needs to be corrected. They don't want their neighbours and former Soviet countries to join Nato, because that would mean it'd be harder to bully these countries for their imperialist gains. Finland was bullied during the Cold War and it still affects our politics and our policies towards Russia favourably to Russia.

During the 2000's we've sometimes heard of reports in the Russian media, where even some politicians wish for Russian Empire's former borders. They say those countries belong to Russia, I would take them as some local loonies sayings. Now I'm not so sure anymore, Russians seem genuinely happy that their country invaded a neighbouring country and annexed part of it. Worrying. First Georgia, now Ukraine. Transnistria next?

Finland's military is doing alright as far as I know, still very much oriented towards defending from an invasion. The weak link in Scandinavia is Sweden, they've been screwing over their military for a while now, they spend more time arguing about removing penises from lions of their coat of arms than they do defending their own airspace. As a Dane I got a nice chuckle out of having to scramble Danish fighters patrolling the Baltics to defend Swedish airspace from the commie bastards.

Finland's defence is centred around the idea of defence in depth. We can't match the Russian manpower or material superiority but we will try to wear them down. Finland's military is supposed to make occupation of this country too costly for Russia. If/when the country is occupied, Finns will conduct guerrilla warfare against the Russians. There are way more assault rifles in Finland than there are reservists. But enough with Finland now.

The enemy comes from the east.

 

[PingviN]

I watched an interview with a Swede saying they've come to the realization they're woefully unprepared for defense and are going to take steps to rectify it.

We've known our military is worth a pinecone in the woods for at least a decade, or at least anyone who's head is not up their ass. Thing is no one wants to spend the money required to have a functioning military, living with the retarded idea that everyone else would pitch in and help us against military aggression. See how well that worked out for Ukraine, another non-NATO country.

 

[TROLLERCAUST]

we really haven't been afraid of putting troops in harms way thousands of miles away, we damn sure aren't gonna roll over for the ruskies in our own back yards. Here in Denmark the old time commies and socialists don't want to react but opposition parties are calling for increased military capability here on European soil (increased military spending will probably follow soon). I watched an interview with a Swede saying they've come to the realization they're woefully unprepared for defense and are going to take steps to rectify it.

Europe is capable of sending the Russians packing back over the Urals in one fell swoop, you 'muricans wouldn't even have to get involved. Russia can't and won't face us head on militarily for years to come.

The EU united or European Nato countries can easily defend against Russia, that is true.

 

[TROLLERCAUST]

We've known our military is worth a pinecone in the woods for at least a decade, or at least anyone who's head is not up their ass. Thing is no one wants to spend the money required to have a functioning military, living with the retarded idea that everyone else would pitch in and help us against military aggression. See how well that worked out for Ukraine, another non-NATO country.

They'll have to come through us first. Not happening. :sneaky:

 

[werepossum]

Finland's military is doing alright as far as I know, still very much oriented towards defending from an invasion. The weak link in Scandinavia is Sweden, they've been screwing over their military for a while now, they spend more time arguing about removing penises from lions of their coat of arms than they do defending their own airspace. As a Dane I got a nice chuckle out of having to scramble Danish fighters patrolling the Baltics to defend Swedish airspace from the commie bastards.

Did not know that. I thought Sweden had remained militarily strong for their size. That is troubling, for it is usually weakness that draws the tyrant's eye.

What Sweden did in WWII was atrocious in my opinion. However, to their stupid defense, they were faced with a difficult dilemma. When neutral Holland refused to let Germany in the Germans leveled Rotterdam to the ground and killed 1000 civilians. Had the Dutch not surrendered the Germans threatened to level Utrecht. It was a no win situation. For Sweden it was no better. We just never said "no" which is what I find appalling. At least the Dutch tried.

Agreed, and well said. One small mitigating difference though - the Netherlands expected France and Great Britain to come to their aid if they could just hold out two weeks. When Sweden got the ultimatum, it was apparent that none of the traditionally great powers could or would come to her aid.

reports are now saying the officer died of his injuries. 20 soldiers and 10-15 civilians (women) have barricaded themselves in a building and is so far holding them off.

shit's about to get real.

No doubt.

 

[werepossum]

Russia is more interested in former Soviet lands but still Russia is not a nice neighbour to have. They have no respect for their smaller neighbours, the only thing it seems they respect is brute force. Putin and modern Russia sees the breakup of the Soviet Union as an error that needs to be corrected. They don't want their neighbours and former Soviet countries to join Nato, because that would mean it'd be harder to bully these countries for their imperialist gains. Finland was bullied during the Cold War and it still affects our politics and our policies towards Russia favourably to Russia.

During the 2000's we've sometimes heard of reports in the Russian media, where even some politicians wish for Russian Empire's former borders. They say those countries belong to Russia, I would take them as some local loonies sayings. Now I'm not so sure anymore, Russians seem genuinely happy that their country invaded a neighbouring country and annexed part of it. Worrying. First Georgia, now Ukraine. Transnistria next?

Finland's defence is centred around the idea of defence in depth. We can't match the Russian manpower or material superiority but we will try to wear them down. Finland's military is supposed to make occupation of this country too costly for Russia. If/when the country is occupied, Finns will conduct guerrilla warfare against the Russians. There are way more assault rifles in Finland than there are reservists. But enough with Finland now.

The enemy comes from the east.

There was no nation in/around the second world war except perhaps Great Britain that so bled a major power. I suspect the Russians still have the same territorial aims, but hopefully they've not forgotten the cost they paid last time. When Russia once again has an empire, though, watch out.

We've known our military is worth a pinecone in the woods for at least a decade, or at least anyone who's head is not up their ass. Thing is no one wants to spend the money required to have a functioning military, living with the retarded idea that everyone else would pitch in and help us against military aggression. See how well that worked out for Ukraine, another non-NATO country.

Yeah . . . That would probably work out better if you had a history of fighting to help out someone else. The policy of "your threat, your problem, my threat, your problem" doesn't play well with other nations. Personally I'd sooner get on board defending a nation like the Ukraine, which began WWII as a slave of Russia and as such was at least technically our ally against the Nazis, than with defending a nation like Sweden who preferred aiding the Nazis to fighting them and who has given us little help since then. I do understand why Sweden made its decision, and to some degree I sympathize, but Sweden has had a pretty strict neutrality policy post-war. Asking other nations to die for you while you maintain neutrality is not a way to win friends and influence people.

 

[zinfamous]

OSCE is not sending in _election_ observers because the OCSE does not recognise this referendum as legal. However they were sending in _military_ observers who were not let into Crimea but rather were shot at. Russia then invited pro-Russia people to "monitor" these elections, who are no part of OSCE. This has been all over the news, over here atleast...



Johan Bäckman is a known troll in Finland. He works for the Russian government and is paid by the Russian government. Russia is waging an information war on its neighbours and Bäckman is a weapon used in that war. Whenever Finland does something that the Russians don't like, stories appear in Russian media how Finland is a bad place to live and it has been Bäckman giving "expert" opinion for the Russian media. Some examples of these made-up stories to make Finland look bad in Russian people's eyes are stories how Finland is a bad place for women and children to live in, how families in Finland are destroyed for some gay-"agenda", how Finland is racist, fascist or russophobe. There might be some friction in some trade talks for example and suddenly these "news stories" start circulating in Russian media, Bäckman acting as some Finnish expert while in reality he works for the Russian government. Other neighbours of Russia, like Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine (no shit), Caucasus states, have had their share of Russian smear campaign of the 2000's. Russian aggression in the media seems to have increased every year.

One thing Russia has done with their aggression is to drive Finland more towards NATO. Finland is not a NATO-member. During the Cold War we couldn't join and there are still plenty of anti-NATO people around but I'm sure opinions are changing because of this new Russian imperialism. Some ideas are brought up in the media how we could also form a military alliance with Sweden, also not-Nato. Russia might see NATO expand closer to its borders in the coming years anyway. 1300 kms of more NATO-border for Russia. Russia fail.

I like lurking all kinds of American-, British-, international etc forums because I like the different viewpoints people around the world have but this thread made my head hurt so much I had to register. I live in the backwoods of Finland close to the Russian border and I've been worried about the situation in Russia for some years now.

What has been really sad to see are all the excuses made for Russian imperialism.

:thumbsup:

thank you for joining Trollercaust; your perspective is greatly needed on these boards amidst the ignorant.

 

[zinfamous]

They'll have to come through us first. Not happening. :sneaky:

I imagine that, to this day, Russians still fear The White Death.

In the horrible event that Putin goes full retard and attempts to repeat 1939, I hope the Finns have another one waiting for him.

:thumbsup:

 

[TROLLERCAUST]

Human Rights Watch:

http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/03/14/crimea-attacks-disappearances-illegal-forces

Self-defense units and paramilitary forces in Crimea are abducting, attacking, and harassing activists and journalists. These forces operate outside of the law, without insignia, without a clear command structure, and with complete impunity. Local authorities in Crimea have a responsibility to ensure these forces cease their actions, disband, and disarm, Human Rights Watch said.


...

http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/03/18/crimea-disappeared-man-found-killed

Crimean authorities should urgently conduct a thorough investigation into the enforced disappearance and subsequent killing of Reshat Ametov, a Crimean Tatar from the Simferopol region, and bring the perpetrators to justice.

...

This is why we need international observers in the area. This is also the same reason why Russia won't allow them there. It wouldn't go well with their propaganda of fascists attacking Russian-speakers.

 

[Genx87]

Bloodless invasion! And how ironic is it one of the excuses from the apologists is the anarchy that was supposedly going on in Crimea. Then the Russians show up and anarchy ensues.

 

[bshole]

Bloodless invasion! And how ironic is it one of the excuses from the apologists is the anarchy that was supposedly going on in Crimea. Then the Russians show up and anarchy ensues.

The West is NOT perfectly innocent in all of this. A lawfully elected pro-Russian Ukranian president was illegally ousted by force and the west IMMEDIATELY recognized his illegal replacement who favored the west over Russia. That was a slap in the face of the Russians and extremely provocative. Now the west is calling foul in Crimea over the same type of actions. At least try for a semblance of consistency.

 

[Jaskalas]

Bloodless invasion! And how ironic is it one of the excuses from the apologists is the anarchy that was supposedly going on in Crimea. Then the Russians show up and anarchy ensues.

The west must organize and act to prevent the spread of this Russian contagion. No further. Military mobilization is required in Europe.

 

[Broheim]

Ukranian troops have been given the weapons free command.

 

[Artorias]

^^^Shoot on sight? Say goodbye to Ukraine if that's the case.

 

[Genx87]

The West is NOT perfectly innocent in all of this. A lawfully elected pro-Russian Ukranian president was illegally ousted by force and the west IMMEDIATELY recognized his illegal replacement who favored the west over Russia. That was a slap in the face of the Russians and extremely provocative. Now the west is calling foul in Crimea over the same type of actions. At least try for a semblance of consistency.

The Parliament voted to impeach him. He left the country before facing a vote to be removed.
It isnt the same type of situation at all. Russian troops with a sham election vs a parliament voting out a president. None of the parliament has been removed. And of course no occupying troops in Kiev.