Russia gets Crimea

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VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,017
8,544
136
Ironic, the US and EU declare the referendum illegal and refuse to send monitors, then use the fact there were no monitors to declare the vote was not free and open. No way they have an agenda...

LOL, like monitors from the west would be let in..
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,625
50,834
136
The "clown car" assembly is the same parliament that was there before the revolution. This same clown car assembly is the reason for their restriant. One has to give tremendous credit to Ukraine. Ukraine absolutely has a casus belli against Russia and would be perfectly justified in going to war with them - indeed, they have been justified in going to war with Russia for weeks now.

Having part of the country conquered by another would be a slight on a nation's honor that could not be countenanced but the ensuring war would have been much, much worse. Ukraine, to its enormous credit, chose to accept that they couldn't do anything about this that would not result in a bloodbath. Russia tried to push Ukraine into shooting, like they did with Georgia, but the Ukrainians were too smart for it.

I have to say I am really impressed by Ukraine's restraint so far. Russia has been constantly attempting to provoke a shooting war and Ukraine has been too smart (so far at least) to take the bait.

Now we even have Russian troops attacking Ukranian installations outside of Crimea. I have no doubt that the apologists here will declare that all right and good as well of course.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,001
8,033
136
And let me guess. Your idea of having Ukrainians settling this is Russian troops invade half of Ukraine.

And you claim the authority to tell eastern Ukraine it cannot be free of the west? Let's have the UN handle voting in those areas, see what the people really think.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
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You made some insane/stupid statements about the position of the EC on the Crimea vote based on you being tricked by reading Russian state propaganda. All my statements about the EC are just refuting that propaganda.

You have yet to counter my comments and links to exact names and comments of the observers.

I have given you names, quotes and links to what the observers saw and said.

You have provided nothing but accusations to backup your stance.


Second, your appeal to state sovereignty is frankly hilarious considering you're doing it in order to support Russia's armed violation of Ukraine's sovereignty.

And?

You justify the US invading two sovereign nations, overthrowing their government, executing a president and holding sham elections the people do not even want.

But when a group of people wish to leave a nation and join Russia using free and open elections you get butt hurt?

Why do you hate freedom? Why do you hate democracy and the will of the people being respected?
 

Squeetard

Senior member
Nov 13, 2004
815
7
76
Piss off U.S. and leave the rest of the goddamned world alone. Get the hell out of Afghanistan and Iraq and mind your own business.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
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Maybe they didn't send any because they didn't want them to get shot at.

Again.

http://m.dailystar.com.lb/News/Inte...e-to-send-observers-to-crimea-referendum.ashx

Let me guess, nobody had a smart phone or camera to record this?
OSCE observers have repeatedly tried and failed to enter Crimea over the past days and on Saturday its monitors were turned away from trying to access peninsula after warning shots were fired as they approached a checkpoint.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,625
50,834
136
You have yet to counter my comments and links to exact names and comments of the observers.

I have given you names, quotes and links to what the observers saw and said.

You have provided nothing but accusations to backup your stance.

Statement of the European Union (including the president of the EC) on the Crimea referendum:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...nt-recognize-outcome/articleshow/32156601.cms

You have provided nothing but links to a Russian propaganda network. You need to grow up and learn how to evaluate sources better.

Statement of OSCE on how the referendum is illegal:

http://m.dailystar.com.lb/News/Inte...e-to-send-observers-to-crimea-referendum.ashx

And?

You justify the US invading two sovereign nations, overthrowing their government, executing a president and holding sham elections the people do not even want.

But when a group of people wish to leave a nation and join Russia using free and open elections you get butt hurt?

Why do you hate freedom? Why do you hate democracy and the will of the people being respected?

I have done none of those things. Why are you a liar?
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,440
9,342
136
You have yet to counter my comments and links to exact names and comments of the observers.

I have given you names, quotes and links to what the observers saw and said.

You have provided nothing but accusations to backup your stance.

The stance that the EU and EC are unhappy with the elections is self evident, I'm not sure how you can argue against that.




And?

You justify the US invading two sovereign nations, overthrowing their government, executing a president and holding sham elections the people do not even want.

But when a group of people wish to leave a nation and join Russia using free and open elections you get butt hurt?

Why do you hate freedom? Why do you hate democracy and the will of the people being respected?

I'm pretty sure I haven't seen eskimospy justifying any of those things.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,290
352
126
What is the quickest path to US involvement and possible global escalation? I need to know so I have something to promote, without directly saying I want a world war.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,017
8,544
136
LOL.

Russia's state run media issues a report? IT MUST BE TRUE.

Election observers issue a report? SHOW ME PROOF.

You're a clown.

Lol...really. Whats really surprising is supporting Crimea's 'Franco-style' referendum. Yesterday's vote, in both form and victory margin, are a lot like Spain's referenda in 1947 and 1966.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
Statement of the European Union (including the president of the EC) on the Crimea referendum:

Statement of OSCE on how the referendum is illegal:

The EU nor the US has the right to declare the Crimea referendum illegal.



You're a clown.

Per your posting history, when you start resorting to insults you are getting desperate.


Why do you claim they lied about being shot at, denied entry into Crimea?

Considering there is no proof to backup the claim.

Where is the video, where are the interviews, what are the names of the people who reported the gun shots so they can be interviewed by other news agencies?

If CNN, huffpost, foxnews, motherjones,,, whoever, wanted to interview the people who had shots fired at them, what are their names? Give me a facebook page, twitter, phone number, office address of the people who reported the warning shots?

Because the people who were observing the elections, their names are out there and being listed.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,017
8,544
136
Where is the video, where are the interviews, what are the names of the people who reported the gun shots so they can be interviewed by other news agencies?

If CNN, huffpost, foxnews, motherjones,,, whoever, wanted to interview the people who had shots fired at them, what are their names? Give me a facebook page, twitter, phone number, office address of the people who reported the warning shots?

Because the people who were observing the elections, their names are out there and being listed.

LOL...comedy gold!
 

PingviN

Golden Member
Nov 3, 2009
1,848
13
81
The 13 Colonies couldn't legally leave England but here we are. Crimea is now part of Russia and while it isn't how things are usually done it will be recognised as such before too long. What remains to be seen is the fallout.

Crimea can vote on it's independence, but not becoming a part of Russia while Russia is occupying it. Compare with Kosovo.

Crimea is not a part of Russia and wont be recognized as such.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
LOL...comedy gold!

When considering evidence the reputation of the witness has to be taken into consideration.

We have two opposing stories:

One story, there were poll observers.

Second story, people trying to observe the polls were not allowed in the country.

So lets see, RT was on site interviewing poll observers, and their names are known. With names independent news agencies can later interview those witnesses. Six months from now CNN, Foxnews,,,, whoever can go and interview those people. Ten years from now a historian can interview those witnesses.

Then we have anther site not listing exact names, no video, no pictures,,, nothing to backup their claim. So independent sources can not verify this story. There is nobody to interview as the names of the witnesses are not known.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,001
8,033
136
Crimea can vote on it's independence, but not becoming a part of Russia while Russia is occupying it. Compare with Kosovo.

Crimea is not a part of Russia and wont be recognized as such.

I like that idea as well. We back Crimea independence, but must remain independent for 10 years.

Russia and Ukraine must both pull back.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,625
50,834
136
When considering evidence the reputation of the witness has to be taken into consideration.

We have two opposing stories:

One story, there were poll observers.

Second story, people trying to observe the polls were not allowed in the country.

So lets see, RT was on site interviewing poll observers, and their names are known. With names independent news agencies can later interview those witnesses. Six months from now CNN, Foxnews,,,, whoever can go and interview those people.

Then we have anther site not listing exact names, no video, no pictures,,, nothing to backup their claim. So independent sources can not verify this story. There is nobody to interview as the names of the witnesses are not known.

Quoted for more comedy gold.
 

JManInPhoenix

Golden Member
Sep 25, 2013
1,500
1
81
Piss off U.S. and leave the rest of the goddamned world alone. Get the hell out of Afghanistan and Iraq and mind your own business.

As an American, I absolutely agree with you. Nothing I would like better than to close all of our overseas bases and bring our troops home. Let someone else play world cop for a while...
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,440
9,342
136
The EU nor the US has the right to declare the Crimea referendum illegal.

You were arguing about the European Commission being happy with the vote. You wanted proof that they weren't.

Considering there is no proof to backup the claim.

Where is the video, where are the interviews, what are the names of the people who reported the gun shots so they can be interviewed by other news agencies?

If CNN, huffpost, foxnews, motherjones,,, whoever, wanted to interview the people who had shots fired at them, what are their names? Give me a facebook page, twitter, phone number, office address of the people who reported the warning shots?

Because the people who were observing the elections, their names are out there and being listed.

These are the same observers that you want to monitor the election, but you don't trust them to tell the truth about getting shot at?
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
These are the same observers that you want to monitor the election, but you don't trust them to tell the truth about getting shot at?

RT was interviewing observers at the polling places. The observers were giving their names and what agency they were with.

What are the names of the people who were shot at, and what agency were they with?

Exact names please so their story can be independently verified.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,440
9,342
136
As an American, I absolutely agree with you. Nothing I would like better than to close all of our overseas bases and bring our troops home. Let someone else play world cop for a while...

It's up to you as a nation if you want to lessen your influence on the world but there's a reason Russia and China are trying to do the opposite.
 
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