Russia gets Crimea

[norseamd]

For Moscow watchers, a clearer picture of the mercurial Russian leader has emerged in recent weeks. Some highlights:
-- Putin is a prickly leader who was personally wounded that President Obama and other world leaders didn't attend the Sochi Olympics or give him credit for staging a safe global extravaganza despite terrorist threats.
-- He cares about money -- both Russia's finances and the private accounts of his personal money managers. The West may have been slow in imposing crippling financial measures, but Putin knows they're possible.
-- He pays close attention to Germany. The visit to Washington last week by Chancellor Angela Merkel seems to have affected Putin's calculus. When Merkel agreed with Obama that sectoral sanctions would be triggered if Russia sabotaged Ukraine's election -- not just by an outright invasion -- Putin had to reconsider his moves.

Read more: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...t_regarding_ukraine_122585.html#ixzz31RvqCJjd
Follow us: @RCP_Articles on Twitter
​

 

[norseamd]

we can have the crimean penesula a de facto independent state like abkhanzia and south ossetia but it can not be some official or de facto russian land

 

[TROLLERCAUST]

"Indeed, administration policymakers have been studying the Cold War experience of Finland for guidance on issues that might face a future Ukraine."

*barf*

That experience sucked arse. Fuck that "experience".

What did we do to deserve Russians as neighbours? All they are is trouble. I'm sick and tired of them and their neverending bullshit. No matter who's in charge there or what kind of administration they have it's always the same tiring shit. Always a threath to us. If they played nice they could achieve so much but no. Putin, Stalin, Lenin, Alexander, Nikolai, Bobrikov - monarchism, communism, "democracy" - always the same! Makes me so fucking angry reading any news lately. Then we have forums full of idiots saying how it's okay for Russia to invade and that the referendum in Crimea was legitimate. WTF?! It's pissing me off!

 

[norseamd]

about time we started raising the karelian issue again

this time we will include all of karelia

 

[Stewox]

What happening in eastern ukraine now is basically the total in-your-face war crimes, absolute insanity and the total reveal what EU really is.

You have to literally be a pensioner in hospital hooked up to mainstream US media to be able to have no idea about how corrupt NATO and EU is, shooting at unarmed civilians, CIA death squads, the installed technocrat working for the IMF, Yatsenyuk, just a puppet with a lot of lies how he's going to save people.

So the rest of the ukraine got "aid" ... what aid, it was a sellout, they gave up their sovereignty in exchange for fancy numbers in a computer which they have to return PLUS INTEREST, now, ukrainians will enjoy a new happy level of slavery directly under European Communist Federation.

Crimea being always russian is mainstream history, the EU, NATO and UN boreucrats owned by private banksters along with hijacked US govt are more and more openly showing their true allegiance,... Satan.

An Kiev openly supporting "nationalists" who are basically skinheads with nazi logos, is a new level of absurdity not seen since Weapons of Mass Turbation.

The Euromaidan core protesters are PAID CONTRACTORS, the director of the CIA was in Kiev for a few days, oh how lovely, they are a minority, the skinheads, neo-nazis, hooligans, and other nationalists and actually ordinary people just joined the cause because it looked a good promise because that's what they do, they spread this goodness about EU like it's going to save them, they will all get enslaved more by austerity, they are digging their own grave, it's a STRATEGIC TACTIC, the people will pay the price even more now that they let the EU banksters control them, EU will not protect national values Ukraine, it is a federation, it DESTROYS sovereignty, it's all psychological warfare and mission successful ukrainian people have been CONQUERED - GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD PLEASE. - they're doing the opposite of nationalism, it's not nationalism, EU has TAKEN OVER Ukraine already, the first package of green toilet paper AKA "aid" already arrived.

Just give it a year or two you will start hearing about the same problems as in other EU contries, again with the whole "REFORMS" to "SAVE MONEY" and that BS, save money yeah right while the banksters make it out of thin air everday, that's why I call it toilet paper because that's what it is. EU might even let them enjoy prosperity for a few months to make everyone comfortable and let their guard down, make them psychologically still inside a perception that they are doing better.

All those Euromaidan supporters, they will all pay the cost of their own slavery, Yatsenyuk is not their friend at all, he's just using them, it's all psych warfare, even Yatsenyuk is not the Boss, he head of the IMF is the boss, the CIA guy is just the boss when it comes how kill as many people as possible in eastern ukraine and make sure nobody else distances away from Kiev.

http://rt.com/usa/158268-cia-brennan-ukraine-visit/

PR: Giving Sandwich To Random Protesters and Police
Behind Scenes: 10 million contract money for Euromaidan to overthrow anti-EU govt and install Yatsenyuk

http://www.thenewamerican.com/world...iant-globalist-footprint-in-ukraine-s-turmoil

 

[Jhhnn]

we can have the crimean penesula a de facto independent state like abkhanzia and south ossetia but it can not be some official or de facto russian land

Why not?

 

[shady28]

What's most interesting about this thread is the absence of interest.

Instead we have top threads about secret plans for a pending Yellowstone eruption, black officers going undercover in the KKK, satanists, sheeple polls, etc.

So to sum recent events up:

1 - Eastern Ukraine referendums happened; we do not see Eastern Ukrainian militants killing eastern Ukrainians in droves, there's no local resistance to seperation.

2 - Along with #1, we do see Ukraine national guard units getting into armed conflict with the separatists.

3- Russia requested the referendum be delayed.

4 - Russia has rebuffed requests from Eastern Ukraine to be absorbed into Russia.

5 - The much debated invasion of Ukraine by Russia hasn't happened, even though they've had many 'events' which would have given them an 'excuse'.


Meanwhile, Ukraine still isn't paying for its gas, and Gazprom has said Ukraine must go on a pre-pay plan and pay for June by June 3rd or they'll shut off the gas on June 3rd.

As predicted here, the billions in aid the IMF provided is something Gazprom and Russia (correctly) point at as evidence Ukraine has sufficient funds to pay their outstanding gas bills (3.5Billion in bills vs 3.2 billion in IMF loans).

Oh, and 15% of Europe's gas goes through Ukraine, which may be disrupted if gas to power Ukraine is shut off.

 

[zinfamous]

What's most interesting about this thread is the absence of interest.

Instead we have top threads about secret plans for a pending Yellowstone eruption, black officers going undercover in the KKK, satanists, sheeple polls, etc.

So to sum recent events up:

1 - Eastern Ukraine referendums happened; we do not see Eastern Ukrainian militants killing eastern Ukrainians in droves, there's no local resistance to seperation.

2 - Along with #1, we do see Ukraine national guard units getting into armed conflict with the separatists.

3- Russia requested the referendum be delayed.

4 - Russia has rebuffed requests from Eastern Ukraine to be absorbed into Russia.

5 - The much debated invasion of Ukraine by Russia hasn't happened, even though they've had many 'events' which would have given them an 'excuse'.


Meanwhile, Ukraine still isn't paying for its gas, and Gazprom has said Ukraine must go on a pre-pay plan and pay for June by June 3rd or they'll shut off the gas on June 3rd.

As predicted here, the billions in aid the IMF provided is something Gazprom and Russia (correctly) point at as evidence Ukraine has sufficient funds to pay their outstanding gas bills (3.5Billion in bills vs 3.2 billion in IMF loans).

Oh, and 15% of Europe's gas goes through Ukraine, which may be disrupted if gas to power Ukraine is shut off.

And Crimea is dependent on Ukraine for some 70% of their water and power.

woops.

 

[senseamp]

What's most interesting about this thread is the absence of interest.

Instead we have top threads about secret plans for a pending Yellowstone eruption, black officers going undercover in the KKK, satanists, sheeple polls, etc.

So to sum recent events up:

1 - Eastern Ukraine referendums happened; we do not see Eastern Ukrainian militants killing eastern Ukrainians in droves, there's no local resistance to seperation.

2 - Along with #1, we do see Ukraine national guard units getting into armed conflict with the separatists.

3- Russia requested the referendum be delayed.

4 - Russia has rebuffed requests from Eastern Ukraine to be absorbed into Russia.

5 - The much debated invasion of Ukraine by Russia hasn't happened, even though they've had many 'events' which would have given them an 'excuse'.


Meanwhile, Ukraine still isn't paying for its gas, and Gazprom has said Ukraine must go on a pre-pay plan and pay for June by June 3rd or they'll shut off the gas on June 3rd.

As predicted here, the billions in aid the IMF provided is something Gazprom and Russia (correctly) point at as evidence Ukraine has sufficient funds to pay their outstanding gas bills (3.5Billion in bills vs 3.2 billion in IMF loans).

Oh, and 15% of Europe's gas goes through Ukraine, which may be disrupted if gas to power Ukraine is shut off.

Europe is talking to Russia about Ukraine's gas. My prediction is that Ukraine will get the European gas price of around $400, conditional on repayment of the accrued debts, not the $270 that it wants, and not the $480 that Russia wants.
The Ukrainian position that it's entitled to $270 price that it got for joining an economic union with Russia, after it left that union and went with EU, is ridiculous. Russian position that Ukraine should pay a higher price than Europe, even though it's closer to Russia with correspondingly lower transit costs, is only reasonable if the price accounts for a risk of Ukrainian non-payment. If Europe offers to guarantee Ukrainian payments, which is in its best interest to avoid supply disruptions in the winter, then Russia can offer a lower price.
http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/205825-russia-will-lower-gas-price-if-ukraine-pays-debt

 

[Fern]

I think Ukraine should demand compensation for Crimea.

Fern

 

[K1052]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/13/russia-international-space-station-doubt-ukraine-sanctions

Apparently refusing to extend the ISS mission as leverage.

Though by 2020 the US could have fully independent access to the station and continue without the Russians....or perhaps invite the Chinese in their place.

 

[senseamp]

I think Ukraine should demand compensation for Crimea.

Fern

They were planning on demanding it, last I checked.

 

[shady28]

And Crimea is dependent on Ukraine for some 70% of their water and power.

woops.

Russia isn't dumb.

They already sent 1400 power generators to Crimea, about a month ago.

http://www.vanguardngr.com/2014/03/russia-sends-emergency-generators-crimea/


Now on the water thing, yeah that's true ever since Ukraine dammed up a river to prevent them from getting water.

Now here's a little thing. Crimea isn't Crimea anymore. That's Russia, right? Ok.

So Ukraine is damming up water to cause a drought / crisis in edit: Russia.

Frankly if that becomes a problem, if I were Putin I'd just blow the shit out of that dam. That's what the USA would do too. Hell, any country who could, would in that situation.

It's just a stupid ass dick move by Ukraine, and it's liable to cost them if they keep up childish shit like that.

 

[zinfamous]

Russia isn't dumb.

They already sent 1400 power generators to Crimea, about a month ago.

http://www.vanguardngr.com/2014/03/russia-sends-emergency-generators-crimea/


Now on the water thing, yeah that's true ever since Ukraine dammed up a river to prevent them from getting water.

Now here's a little thing. Crimea isn't Crimea anymore. That's Russia, right? Ok.

So Ukraine is damming up water to cause a drought / crisis in edit: Russia.

Frankly if that becomes a problem, if I were Putin I'd just blow the shit out of that dam. That's what the USA would do too. Hell, any country who could, would in that situation.

It's just a stupid ass dick move by Ukraine, and it's liable to cost them if they keep up childish shit like that.

wow. Ukraine built a damn in the last month just to fuck over Russia's new 3rd world broken toy?

ABSOLUTELY AMAZING!

you're an idiot.

 

[shady28]

wow. Ukraine built a damn in the last month just to fuck over Russia's new 3rd world broken toy?

ABSOLUTELY AMAZING!

you're an idiot.

No, you're a fucking idiot for not even making an attempt to verify before opening your mouth. You know there's a saying about fools speaking up..

Here, let me help your stupid ass :

http://euromaidanpr.com/2014/05/13/ukraine-stops-water-supply-to-crimea/

"The North Crimean canal has stopped supplying water to the unrecognized Republic of Crimea, reads a statement made by the State Water Resources Agency."


http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraine-cuts-off-water-supply-to-crimea/5381277

"Ukraine is building a dam ...

The dam is built from bags with sand on the side of the Armyansk – Kherson highway near a bridge in the town of Kalanchak."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27155885

"Russian officials say a water shortage in Crimea is threatening to become acute as Ukraine has reduced the supply via a key canal....The North Crimea Canal delivers water to Crimea from the River Dnieper, in Ukraine's southern Kherson region. The canal accounts for 80% of Crimea's water."

http://www.ukrainianjournal.com/index.php?w=article&id=18386

"SIMFEROPOL, April 22 - Crimean farmers will be unable to grow rice, corn and soybeans if the Ukrainian authorities refuse to resume water supplies from the Dnipro River along the North Crimean canal, Crimea's Minister for Agrarian and Food Policy Nikolai Polyushkin said.

Crimea produces up to 240,000 tons of rice, corn and soybeans a year.

Polyushkin's remarks followed Ukraine's decision to sizably cut water supplies to Crimea via the North Crimean canal about two weeks ago."

 

[senseamp]

No, you're a fucking idiot for not even making an attempt to verify before opening your mouth. You know there's a saying about fools speaking up..

Here, let me help your stupid ass :

http://euromaidanpr.com/2014/05/13/ukraine-stops-water-supply-to-crimea/

"The North Crimean canal has stopped supplying water to the unrecognized Republic of Crimea, reads a statement made by the State Water Resources Agency."


http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraine-cuts-off-water-supply-to-crimea/5381277

"Ukraine is building a dam ...

The dam is built from bags with sand on the side of the Armyansk – Kherson highway near a bridge in the town of Kalanchak."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27155885

"Russian officials say a water shortage in Crimea is threatening to become acute as Ukraine has reduced the supply via a key canal....The North Crimea Canal delivers water to Crimea from the River Dnieper, in Ukraine's southern Kherson region. The canal accounts for 80% of Crimea's water."

http://www.ukrainianjournal.com/index.php?w=article&id=18386

"SIMFEROPOL, April 22 - Crimean farmers will be unable to grow rice, corn and soybeans if the Ukrainian authorities refuse to resume water supplies from the Dnipro River along the North Crimean canal, Crimea's Minister for Agrarian and Food Policy Nikolai Polyushkin said.

Crimea produces up to 240,000 tons of rice, corn and soybeans a year.

Polyushkin's remarks followed Ukraine's decision to sizably cut water supplies to Crimea via the North Crimean canal about two weeks ago."

To put it in perspective, 240000 tons of rice, corn, and soybeans is worth about $50-100M in revenue, and much less than that in profit. Ukraine imports about $15B of Russian Gas, so if they think they are going to get a big discount by threatening Crimean water supply, they are going to be disappointed.

 

[code65536]

Now on the water thing, yeah that's true ever since Ukraine dammed up a river to prevent them from getting water.

You mean a man-made canal that diverts water from Ukrainian rivers to Crimea. Water that naturally does not reach Crimea. Why the hell should Ukraine keep diverting its own water into Crimea if Crimea is not a part of Ukraine any more?

 

[Olikan]

that and putin has not yet invaded central or western ukraine

yeah, last time i heard, some of the west ukrain were happy that crimea got taken....it meant that there were be less pro-russian politics in the future

 

[cubby1223]

You mean a man-made canal that diverts water from Ukrainian rivers to Crimea. Water that naturally does not reach Crimea. Why the hell should Ukraine keep diverting its own water into Crimea if Crimea is not a part of Ukraine any more?

Probably for the same reason why Turkey should not have dammed up it's rivers preventing water from naturally flowing into Syria - lack of water in Syria greatly contributed to their massive war, and those dams played a part in it.

The issue of "should" the water be dammed up is independent of the issue of "should" Russia have annexed Crimea and "should" Russia continue to be the asshole neighbor nobody wants to live next to.

 

[cubby1223]

No, you're a fucking idiot for not even making an attempt to verify before opening your mouth. You know there's a saying about fools speaking up..

No, you are the fucking idiot for trying to highlight the damming of a canal as more serious than all the shit Russia has done to damage Ukraine.

 

[cubby1223]

What's most interesting about this thread is the absence of interest.

What new event has happened?

Putin is still a jackass. Ukraine still is in the unfortunate position of being neighbors with that jackass. Europe & Obama still haven't a clue how to respond. And the Russian cheerleaders in this thread are still cheerleading for Russia.

The only thing this thread does for good people is instill anger having to read the comments of the Russian cheerleaders.

 

[senseamp]

What new event has happened?

Putin is still a jackass. Ukraine still is in the unfortunate position of being neighbors with that jackass. Europe & Obama still haven't a clue how to respond. And the Russian cheerleaders in this thread are still cheerleading for Russia.

The only thing this thread does for good people is instill anger having to read the comments of the Russian cheerleaders.

"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." -Eleanor Roosevelt

 

[zinfamous]

No, you're a fucking idiot for not even making an attempt to verify before opening your mouth. You know there's a saying about fools speaking up..

Here, let me help your stupid ass :

http://euromaidanpr.com/2014/05/13/ukraine-stops-water-supply-to-crimea/

"The North Crimean canal has stopped supplying water to the unrecognized Republic of Crimea, reads a statement made by the State Water Resources Agency."


http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraine-cuts-off-water-supply-to-crimea/5381277

"Ukraine is building a dam ...

The dam is built from bags with sand on the side of the Armyansk – Kherson highway near a bridge in the town of Kalanchak."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27155885

"Russian officials say a water shortage in Crimea is threatening to become acute as Ukraine has reduced the supply via a key canal....The North Crimea Canal delivers water to Crimea from the River Dnieper, in Ukraine's southern Kherson region. The canal accounts for 80% of Crimea's water."

http://www.ukrainianjournal.com/index.php?w=article&id=18386

"SIMFEROPOL, April 22 - Crimean farmers will be unable to grow rice, corn and soybeans if the Ukrainian authorities refuse to resume water supplies from the Dnipro River along the North Crimean canal, Crimea's Minister for Agrarian and Food Policy Nikolai Polyushkin said.

Crimea produces up to 240,000 tons of rice, corn and soybeans a year.

Polyushkin's remarks followed Ukraine's decision to sizably cut water supplies to Crimea via the North Crimean canal about two weeks ago."

OK, fair enough. But why should Ukraine now send their water to Russia for free now? How can that be considered exploitation?

Putin made his bed, so let him sleep in it.

 

[zinfamous]

"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." -Eleanor Roosevelt

Putin has no ideas. Putin is for Putin. There is no discussion of ideas when we are talking about Putin's actions.

 

[senseamp]

OK, fair enough. But why should Ukraine now send their water to Russia for free now? How can that be considered exploitation?

Putin made his bed, so let him sleep in it.

Is that the Ukrainian argument? That they shouldn't have to send water to Crimea because it's now Russia? Because if it is, it's a reasonable one. :thumbsup: