Russia gets Crimea

[werepossum]

So how popular do you think Putin will be domestically once this drama in the Ukraine/Crimea finally plays out ... with the Russian economy going south?

Probably quite popular, since he controls all the media. Consider the similarity to the American South in the Civil War, where some adamantly anti-slavery men fought for the South because those who owned the newspapers framed it as a States' Rights issue. If one can control the official messaging, one is able to convince a lot of people, and while there is admittedly a lot more alternative media in Russia, neither is the issue as morally straightforward as slavery.

 

[Jaskalas]

Drudge Headline:[FONT=ARIAL,VERDANA,HELVETICA]

Russian Troops Invade Ukraine

[/FONT]The details aren't quite so dramatic.[FONT=ARIAL,VERDANA,HELVETICA]
[/FONT]

Mr. Zakharchenko said that between 3,000 and 4,000 Russians had fought in the separatist ranks since the conflict erupted last spring.

Russia has long denied sending soldiers or weapons to Ukraine, and the revelation evades the issue of direct Russian involvement by painting the soldiers as volunteers.

 

[fskimospy]

Drudge Headline:[FONT=ARIAL,VERDANA,HELVETICA] [/FONT]The details aren't quite so dramatic.[FONT=ARIAL,VERDANA,HELVETICA]
[/FONT]

The reality of it is almost certainly not what the separatists are saying. It's most likely that Russia is actively participating in combat inside of Ukraine but attempting to do so as quietly as possible so that Ukraine stays destabilized and the west doesn't punish them further.

 

[Genx87]

Sounds pretty dramatic to me. And now more troops are pouring in along with APCs, tanks, mobile artillery, and AA systems.

Time to slap Russia with more sanctions. Make it economically painful to steal their neighbors land.

 

[code65536]

I wouldn't be surprised if we later discover that the entire battle is really between Ukraine and the Russian armed forces, with just a few token local rebels (as in, real rebels) acting as the smoke screen. Isn't it telling that, until recently, all the leadership of the "rebels" were Russian citizens with past ties to Russian security services?

 

[maddogchen]

Where are the calls for more sanctions? Or did they finally realize that it hasn't stopped anything?

 

[fskimospy]

Where are the calls for more sanctions? Or did they finally realize that it hasn't stopped anything?

It's more that they are trying to determine exactly what's going on. More sanctions will be coming.

It's not just about stopping Putin here, it's about inflicting enough pain on him that he thinks twice before doing it again, or it weakens his position among the other kleptocrats in his government that won't be happy about the gravy train drying up.

 

[Newell Steamer]

What is the importance of NOT losing the Ukraine to Russian? I still can't figure out why the US should care.

 

[code65536]

What is the importance of NOT losing the Ukraine to Russian? I still can't figure out why the US should care.

What is the importance of Ukraine wanting closer ties to Europe instead of a corrupt puppet government? I still can't figure out why Russia should care.

Dude, the amount of "caring" the US and the EU have done is pretty minimal, if you haven't noticed. We've said things and eventually, much later, long after Russia invaded, did we sanctioned things. The country doing the most "caring" of other people's business is Russia. Or, specifically, Putin.

 

[code65536]

Russia covering up and classifying their casualties:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28949582

I guess you can't keep this bottled up forever, even in Russia:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28965597

 

[zinfamous]

Drudge Headline:The details aren't quite so dramatic.[FONT=ARIAL,VERDANA,HELVETICA]
[/FONT]

Well, "Russian Troops Have Been Invading Ukraine" is not a very good headline. It's more true to reality, but passive voice should be avoided whenever possible.

 

[werepossum]

The EU is going to have to decide how much pain it's willing to endure within its energy demands to avoid having a resurgent and aggressive Soviet Union on its eastern border, picking off free nations. This is not a problem Obama can fix because we have limited economic ties with Russia and thus our only real leverage is military action - and neither we nor Europe want to see World War 3 initiated.

 

[code65536]

Let's be clear here: the problem isn't a resurgent Russia. It's the power-hungry Hitler-wannabe Putin. At this point, Putin doesn't give a damn that he's screwing over his own people as much as he's screwing over Ukrainians:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28968526

 

[fskimospy]

Let's be clear here: the problem isn't a resurgent Russia. It's the power-hungry Hitler-wannabe Putin. At this point, Putin doesn't give a damn that he's screwing over his own people as much as he's screwing over Ukrainians:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28968526

It seems like Putin knows he's in a bad spot now but doesn't know how to get out. He appears to be very concerned with keeping his reputation as a strongman and not looking like the west made him back down.

 

[fskimospy]

Also, how hilarious is the separatists' attempt to explain away the Russian soldiers fighting in Ukraine?

I mean can you imagine what the US (or any other country) would do to their soldiers if they found out while on vacation they were participating in foreign wars for another power?

 

[K1052]

It seems like Putin knows he's in a bad spot now but doesn't know how to get out. He appears to be very concerned with keeping his reputation as a strongman and not looking like the west made him back down.

Had he stopped at the Crimea he could have declared victory internally while stabilizing relations with Europe. But nooo....just had to fuck with eastern Ukraine too and get himself into a situation with no face saving exit.

The Germans are proposing new sanctions now because of this. Which will only cause him to further restrict imports and accelerate the sinking of the Russian economy into recession even more quickly. He's really gotten himself into a jam and doesn't know how to get out.

 

[code65536]

It seems like Putin knows he's in a bad spot now but doesn't know how to get out. He appears to be very concerned with keeping his reputation as a strongman and not looking like the west made him back down.

He's had more than enough opportunities to back off. Even after he missed the exit ramp at Crimea, later, when Donetsk and Luhansk were about to fall, he could've just cut off support, and then say that the failure of the rebels despite a brave and valiant fight wasn't anything he could've stopped. With his propaganda machine, he could've easily shifted the blame to outside forces beyond his control and paint his inaction as the the result of his noble conformance to international law and standards of behavior.

But he didn't do that. He chose to escalate and instead make a blatant thrust towards Mariupol.

 

[code65536]

Also, how hilarious is the separatists' attempt to explain away the Russian soldiers fighting in Ukraine?

I mean can you imagine what the US (or any other country) would do to their soldiers if they found out while on vacation they were participating in foreign wars for another power?

Da, comrade. Beaches are for weaklings. A vacation without being shot at is no vacation at all!

 

[Olikan]

It seems like Putin knows he's in a bad spot now but doesn't know how to get out. He appears to be very concerned with keeping his reputation as a strongman and not looking like the west made him back down.

yeah, i think that also

i mean, seriously, if putin wanted ukrain (the whole country itself) he probably whould have done a blitzkrieg atack

but then again, asia is full of little provocations, meaningless speeches and full of notting happening

 

[Genx87]

Seems to me Obama has outmanuevered Putin on this crisis.

 

[Jaskalas]

While the previous article did not support the headline, this one appears to do so.

2 columns of Russian tanks enter Ukraine
as border guards retreat

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

While the previous article did not support the headline, this one appears to do so.

2 columns of Russian tanks enter Ukraine
as border guards retreat

Meanwhile in Martha's Vineyard...

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

It seems like Putin knows he's in a bad spot now but doesn't know how to get out. He appears to be very concerned with keeping his reputation as a strongman and not looking like the west made him back down.

Just a guess, but I don't think he gives a crap about what the west thinks.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/significant-escalation-russian-tanks-enter-ukraine/

 

[zinfamous]

Meanwhile in Martha's Vineyard...

[derpery]

you guys are so cute.

please, explain to me, again, how Obama is responsible for Putin doing what he's always wanted to do?

 

[Dari]

The EU is going to have to decide how much pain it's willing to endure within its energy demands to avoid having a resurgent and aggressive Soviet Union on its eastern border, picking off free nations. This is not a problem Obama can fix because we have limited economic ties with Russia and thus our only real leverage is military action - and neither we nor Europe want to see World War 3 initiated.

We have SWIFT.